Type 2 +adding Conditions And No Weightloss

[Freema]

hey As I have read many times in here ; many seem to have more adding conditions besides their type 2 diagnonsis/condition ...I myself also have both a problem with hardly being able to lose weight and also having an artificial metabolism as my thyroid gland is killed...hypothyroidism it is called when it is too low..

of cause we all look for information of what can be the reason and I am wondering what your ideas of your troubles in matters with weightloss problems could be... ? have you heard of either leptin resistance or thyroid resistance ?

I saw this video of the problems on you tube... maybe some of you could have some knowledge on this you would like to share with those of us that cants seem to lose weight..
or some comments to the videos :
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[Robin101]

At the risk of upsetting thousands of overweight people ( and yes I am usually overweight!) the simple truth is that whatever the issues with your body, if it has more fuel (calories) going in than it used per/day/week/month then you can't lose weight.
People confuse healthy eating with controlled intake. You have to eat healthily AND eat less calories.
And losing weight needs to be gradual - none of this magic diet stuff.
Having said all that it is hugely difficult and all the additional conditions make it more difficult - but not impossible.
It doesn't matter what 'experts' tell you about the correct calories for losing weight.
If you know what your actual calorie intake is (say over a week/month) and you don't lose weight - then consume less calories the next month until you reach a point where you start to lose weight.

It is possible - just takes time. My journey is from 135kg to a target of 84. I'm two years in and at 95kg today and I am certain I will reach my target. At 1m 82cm my diet is not more than 900 Cal's per day - anymore and the weight loss stops.

 

[Freema]

At the risk of upsetting thousands of overweight people ( and yes I am usually overweight!) the simple truth is that whatever the issues with your body, if it has more fuel (calories) going in than it used per/day/week/month then you can't lose weight.
People confuse healthy eating with controlled intake. You have to eat healthily AND eat less calories.
And losing weight needs to be gradual - none of this magic diet stuff.
Having said all that it is hugely difficult and all the additional conditions make it more difficult - but not impossible.
It doesn't matter what 'experts' tell you about the correct calories for losing weight.
If you know what your actual calorie intake is (say over a week/month) and you don't lose weight - then consume less calories the next month until you reach a point where you start to lose weight.

It is possible - just takes time. My journey is from 135kg to a target of 84. I'm two years in and at 95kg today and I am certain I will reach my target. At 1m 82cm my diet is not more than 900 Cal's per day - anymore and the weight loss stops.

Well last year I lost 35 kg but I have gained 22 of them again even when controlling my calories , I was 1000 calories daily for 6 months , I can’t continue this and I don’t lose on 1400 calories now and I exercise 4000 cLories for 8 hours every week or half of it when not the first

 

[Robin101]

Looks like you have the hang of it anyway. But be just as suspicious of any calculations that tell you how many calories you use exercising.
The only way to tell is in a clinical setting using alot of machines!
Agreed ultra low calorie is no fun. No exciting treats, nothing much tasty.
I eat no potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, pizza, sausages, (the last two kill me!)
I use an old old exercise plan 5BX. It isn't for everyone but works for me (it is also not high tech or exciting and sometimes takes a real effort to get started) last 11 minutes a day. !!

 

[ickihun]

@Indy51 has some great links about understanding underactive thyroid @Freema. I hope still readily available to post here, for you.

I understand it depends why we have underactive thyroid as to its remedy.
R-ala supplement helped my body's pathways.
I will restart the supplement once I'm fully healed from major op. Maybe a year after op.

T3 should be produced by T4 (levothyroxine) convertion. Only once enough T3 (I think.. free T3) does our metabolism work properly.
Someone may correct me, if I got this wrong.

Fatty liver stops weight loss.
So a few things have to be right, for us (me and you) to lose weight.
Ultimately good bgs are needed. Without good bgs, we are wasting out time... and money.

Also @Freema I've found no matter how much exercise if they push my bgs up they are only minimumily affective on fitness but not weight loss, for me. Keeping bgs good is the key, no matter what your actions/exercise burnt calories.

 

[Guzzler]

At the risk of upsetting thousands of overweight people ( and yes I am usually overweight!) the simple truth is that whatever the issues with your body, if it has more fuel (calories) going in than it used per/day/week/month then you can't lose weight.
People confuse healthy eating with controlled intake. You have to eat healthily AND eat less calories.
And losing weight needs to be gradual - none of this magic diet stuff.
Having said all that it is hugely difficult and all the additional conditions make it more difficult - but not impossible.
It doesn't matter what 'experts' tell you about the correct calories for losing weight.
If you know what your actual calorie intake is (say over a week/month) and you don't lose weight - then consume less calories the next month until you reach a point where you start to lose weight.

It is possible - just takes time. My journey is from 135kg to a target of 84. I'm two years in and at 95kg today and I am certain I will reach my target. At 1m 82cm my diet is not more than 900 Cal's per day - anymore and the weight loss stops.

I disagree quite strongly with this. Firstly, calories are measured using a closed system and the human body is not a closed system so the second law of thermodynamics in regard to ei x eo is useless. Secondly, it depends very much on where you get your calories, they are not created equally.

 

[Robin101]

I disagree quite strongly with this. Firstly, calories are measured using a closed system and the human body is not a closed system so the second law of thermodynamics in regard to ei x eo is useless. Secondly, it depends very much on where you get your calories, they are not created equally.

However the only things that can get into the body go in through your mouth, nose or an IV drip ( yes there are other means but I exlude medical intervention)

Assuming my observations do not go for people being fed via IV or PEG and there are no gasses I am aware of that actually introduce dietary energy (calories) then we are back to calories from food?

Agreed however that all calories are not necessarily equal. Grass contains energy (Alfalfa at around 200 Cal's per 100g) but is useless for humans as we can't digest it. So I'll go with that. Wood and coal likewise.

But in the interests of losing weight we can assume that for our purposes ALL consumed edible calories are useful to some extent as far as human metabolism is concerned.

Then any error is on our side?

Less consumed than used = calorific deficit = use of stored calories (however few that may be)?

 

[Guzzler]

An hour long lecture by Zoe Harcombe, the first twenty minutes of which covers and dispels CICO.
It isn't new and it's a pity we can't see the graphics but it does explain why the 'eat less move more' mantra has not worked since its inception.
The whole lecture is worth watching, btw.

 

[Robin101]

The tricky bit is that the human body is an incredibly effective learning machine which is generally programmed to preserve itself (brain function anyway) and calorific deficit can be adjusted or tuned out to a certain extent.
Diet and your metabolism adjusts to use less energy, or to source stored energy in different ways.
Hence the ideas behind alternating fasting days, 5/2 or 6/1 or whatever. And also ideas on disrupted patterns such as eating your larger meal at different times of the day, eating a different number of meals per day.
The human system likes and adjusts well to patterns so disrupting these may help?

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

If you know what your actual calorie intake is (say over a week/month) and you don't lose weight - then consume less calories the next month until you reach a point where you start to lose weight.

Sounds great . . . . . . in theory. Just a few problems. You suggest knowing your calorie intake over a week or a month, but your body doesn't wait a week to decide whether to use energy or store it as fat, that happens much quicker than that. I'm of the opinion that it could happen much quicker than we realise and isn't necessarily completely down to how much we have eaten. Insulin plays an important role in the storage of fat, no matter what your calorie intake is. I think this is behind Guzzler's second point about not all calories being equal. Eating carbs requires insulin and insulin is the fat storing hormone.

If you look at what affects weight gain and loss, there are several things that have to be in good working order. We've mentioned Insulin and with insulin resistance comes the need for more insulin, possibly made worse by taking a drug that makes the pancreas make more insulin in an effort to overcome insulin resistance. Other things include estrogen levels, cortisone levels, liver function, sleep patterns, and even intestinal transit times, so not as straight forward as you would think. Oh, I haven't mentioned the thyroid, usually something tested quite early on when experiencing weight loss problems.

On a daily basis I notice weight changes but I don't know how much is fat loss/storage of fluid loss/retention. In the last 6 days alone my weight has changed as follows -0.9, +0.3, -0.3, +0.6, -0.2, +1.3 (all in kgs). Is that fat burning/storage, I suppose it has to happen some time, except I'm eating less than 1,000 calories a day, so I'm reckoning on water. As for the last +1.3 gain, I took cocodomol and though it didn't cause constipation, it slows the intestinal transit time.

While I accept that that eating more than your body needs (note I didn't say "too much", nobody has defined "too much"), there are too many factors governing what your body needs which we cannot gauge properly. As guzzler says "calories are measured using a closed system and the human body is not a closed system so the second law of thermodynamics in regard to ei x eo is useless".

My doctor can only say "your metabolism is broken", at least I have found something more informative in my investigations. The less calorie thing doesn't work for everyone.

 

[Robin101]

I have an innate sense of distrust concerning anyone or anything that offers advice when they have something to sell. Individuals,. Government's. All of them and the various challenges to Zoe's books and advertising with the Advertising Standards Agency bear this out.
Zoe espouses eating healthily (I'm all for that) and getting away from processed food (I'm good with that too - it's all high calorie in any case)
So. Higher quality fresh foods (less calories) and a balanced diet, and sensible portion size.

 

[Robin101]

Again, how your body processes what goes in differs individually.
I mention week/ month as many people will work better with averages over longer periods and for trends this works. But again I agree it isn't a great timeframe for reacting to changes.
I also measure my weight daily. At exactly the same time, with scales on a marked spot, foot prints marked out, sand wearing nothing but a smile. And I record this. So call me anal or whatever.

Yes air conditioning can change my weight. Dehydration.

It doesn't matter much which bit of your system isn't working does it? It's the result you have to deal with and tailor food intake around what you have left working.

That doesn't change the basic energy deficit issue, just how difficult it will be to manage?

 

[Guzzler]

What those of us with T2 and having a broken system need to do to get around the bit that isn't working, which by the way is for the majority IR, is basically to adapt to a different fuel, a fuel that some would argue is more efficient anyway. Add in another part of the system that isn't working properly and the problems are further stymied.

I suppose you could look at LCHF as a bypass?

 

[zand]

Again, how your body processes what goes in differs individually.
I mention week/ month as many people will work better with averages over longer periods and for trends this works. But again I agree it isn't a great timeframe for reacting to changes.
I also measure my weight daily. At exactly the same time, with scales on a marked spot, foot prints marked out, sand wearing nothing but a smile. And I record this. So call me anal or whatever.

Yes air conditioning can change my weight. Dehydration.

It doesn't matter much which bit of your system isn't working does it? It's the result you have to deal with and tailor food intake around what you have left working.

That doesn't change the basic energy deficit issue, just how difficult it will be to manage?

What happens when you keep reducing calorie intake and you no longer lose weight but are continually ill because you aren't getting enough nutrition?
When you change fuel as @Guzzler says you can increase calorie intake (in my case 3-4 fold) and start losing weight again. Calories in/calories out only works when the metabolism isn't broken. Consuming too few calories can break the metabolism even more.
Yes I weigh daily at the same time every day too.

 

[DCUKMod]

Well last year I lost 35 kg but I have gained 22 of then again even when controlling my calories , I was 1000 calories daily for 6 months , I can’t continue this and I don’t lose on 1400 calories now and I exercise 4000 cLories for 8 hours every week or half of it when not the first

Freema - When I needed to learn a lot more than I already did about thyroid function, I found the following website to be absoluetly fab. There are several folks there whose experience and knowledge is vast, and who are willing to give information and support freely. Maybe you could have a look and see if you can find anything helpful there?

https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk

Whilst thyroid and diabetes are often bedfellows, I'm very resistant to totally tying them up together, in terms of my learning or understanding.

 

[Freema]

@Indy51 has some great links about understanding underactive thyroid @Freema. I hope still readily available to post here, for you.

I understand it depends why we have underactive thyroid as to its remedy.
R-ala supplement helped my body's pathways.
I will restart the supplement once I'm fully healed from major op. Maybe a year after op.

T3 should be produced by T4 (levothyroxine) convertion. Only once enough T3 (I think.. free T3) does our metabolism work properly.
Someone may correct me, if I got this wrong.

Fatty liver stops weight loss.
So a few things have to be right, for us (me and you) to lose weight.
Ultimately good bgs are needed. Without good bgs, we are wasting out time... and money.

Also @Freema I've found no matter how much exercise if they push my bgs up they are only minimumily affective on fitness but not weight loss, for me. Keeping bgs good is the key, no matter what your actions/exercise burnt calories.

thanks dear , for your advice, my thyroid gland has been totally killed by radioactive iodine, so no matter what I do I cant speed that one, my THS is too suppressed my GP says but at the same time my T3 is too low, and as many of you know our GP´s are like GODs they can demand and reject giving us medicine, and especially in Denmark all GP´s are told to have their eyes fixed only on the TSH,,

I have looked for less narrow-minded GP´s but the few that have argued against this solo minded way of interpreting metabolic blood samples have been restricted by health authorities and even had their right to prescribe levothyroxine and other alike metabolic hormones so that they can not prescribe them at all at the moment , it is by special allowance possible to get a solo T3 hormone (Liothyronine ) as a small supplement besides the levothyroxine but almost all GP´s won´t prescribe it and in my very conservative town it seems there are none that will prescribe it...

if I keep gaining I am going to keep bringing that possibillity up to my GP so that maybe finally she will give in and let me have a try... the level she wants me on I am afraid will let me take on around a pound a week

 

[Freema]

Freema - When I needed to learn a lot more than I already did about thyroid function, I found the following website to be absoluetly fab. There are several folks there whose experience and knowledge is vast, and who are willing to give information and support freely. Maybe you could have a look and see if you can find anything helpful there?

https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk

Whilst thyroid and diabetes are often bedfellows, I'm very resistant to totally tying them up together, in terms of my learning or understanding.

thanks I´ll have a look on your link, but my problem is I really do not have a thyroid gland or well it is totally killed so I will never be able to repair or speed its function... I totally depend on thyroid hormons taken orally

 

[Freema]

I believe my metabolism was wrecked when I was pregnant and ill the last 7 month unable to eat anything also my thyroid hormones, but because all food came up again I didn´t become fatter, and because I didn´t get any thyroid hormones my weight only lowered 6 kg.... I depended only on pure glucose lead into my veins for 7 months, AFTER my daughter was born I gained 30 kg on 4 months,

was never obese before that, in fact, I had an almost stable weight for 20 years gaining only 2-3 kg for that whole period .....

 

[Indy51]

Sorry, but I think @ickihun may be confusing me with someone else. I don't have all that much information on thyroid. However, if your thyroid gland has been removed or had treatment to kill it off (I believe it's radiation therapy?), you might want to check out the site of Dr Amy Meyers. She had her thyroid ablated due to Addison's Disease and also does a lot of work with autoimmunity. Her webiste is:

https://www.amymyersmd.com/

 

[Freema]

Sorry, but I think @ickihun may be confusing me with someone else. I don't have all that much information on thyroid. However, if your thyroid gland has been removed or had treatment to kill it off (I believe it's radiation therapy?), you might want to check out the site of Dr Amy Meyers. She had her thyroid ablated due to Addison's Disease and also does a lot of work with autoimmunity. Her webiste is:

https://www.amymyersmd.com/

thank you dear... I´ll have a read there too thanks