Type 2's and blood pressure meds update :)

angua

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Just a little update, I received my Omron (thanks for the encouragement) and over the course of 3 days my average bp was 117/79 highest was 127/89 lowest was 104/77

I rang the doctor and told him I'd been monitoring at home and gave him the results and he confirmed that I need to drop one of my meds (Amlodipine) its taken a couple of days to feel better (half life of Aml is apparently 33 hrs) but I'm now no longer getting dizzy and generally feeling downright vile :D

He asked that I continue to monitor :thumbup: at home and he'll talk to me again in a month - my bp has still stayed around 117/80 so I'm hoping that its going to stay this way - maybe when I lose the other 60lbs I won't need any !


Gilly x
 

SueR

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

50mg of Atenolol, 5mg of Amlodipine and 50 Micrograms of Clonidine in the morning with breakfast.

2mg of Trandolapril and 50 Micrograms of Clonidine with my evening meal.

I also take 75 mg of gastro-resistant Aspirin to help keep my blood thin.

The above combination keep by BP stable and helps with migraine prevention.
 

librarising

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

angua,

do you have your own monitor ? When an acute kidney infection took me to the GP (a visit which led to my diagnosis !) my systolic was 180, and I was asked not to work the next day, even though I felt fine (the acute attack had come and gone) !
Within days I'd picked up an Omron monitor for about £15 from Amazon. Just checked and they're still available at that price.
When I test, usually after standing for some time, my first reading is often around 140, but after about ten minutes can be down to 120.
Some people give high readings due to 'white coat syndrome' where the setting, or the fact of being tested raises the reading.

A small investment IMO

Geoff
 

xyzzy

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

I take 10mg of Ramipril a day. I started taking it around a year pre diagnosis of T2 when my BP got measured at 200+/ something horrible. By the time of my diagnosis it had brought it down to around 140/90 and since diagnosis I have continued taking it and nowadays I measure around 115/75. Like Geoff I also picked up an Omron monitor for about £15 from Amazon and keep a weekly track of where I'm at.

The NHS generally defines too low to be less than 90/60 see http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Blood-pressure-(low)/Pages/Introduction.aspx but I would guess like everything else low blood pressure symptoms will vary person to person.


Ramipril is an ACE inhibitor which along with its BP lowering powers can also protect kidney function. It's prescribed in this country based on the results of the HOPE and MICRO HOPE studies see http://bjdvd.com/content/1/1/44.full.pdf

Summary taken from here http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=-1389035448

Original HOPE study (1):

designed to investigate the effects of taking an ACE inhibitor ramipril and/or vitamin E for at least 4 years, on a wide range of vascular endpoints
total of 9541 patients (men and women) older than 55 years took part in study
patients were included if they were at high risk of cardiovascular events due to history of diabetes, previous ischaemic heart disease, peripheral vascular disease or stroke
treatment benefits of ramipril were seen across all patient groups - these benefits occurred within 3 to 4 months of starting treatment with ramipril
results revealed that the combined reduction in myocardial infarction, cardiovascular death and stroke at 5 years was 22 % in the ramipril treatment group; there was a 17% reduction in all cause mortality in the ramipril treatment group; no effect on stated endpoints occurred with patients treated with vitamin E
the study investigators do not attribute treatment benefits accrued with ramipril to be because of an impact on blood pressure - the baseline blood pressure had a mean level of 139/79 mmHg - by the end of the trial there had only been a small further decline
HOPE follow-up study (2):

a follow-up study based on the HOPE study population has been undertaken
4,528 patients agreed to further follow-up (median follow-up period 2.6 years)
rates of use of angiotensin-converting-enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) in the 2 groups (72% ramipril versus 68% placebo) were similar after the end of the trial
during the post-trial follow-up, patients allocated to ramipril had a 19% further lower relative risk (RR) of myocardial infarction (MI), a 16% lower RR of revascularization, and a 34% lower RR of a new diagnosis of diabetes
RR reductions in vascular events were observed during and after the active phase of the trial, regardless of baseline risk (RR of 0.76, 0.89, and 0.83 for low-, medium-, and high-risk patients, respectively) or ancillary treatments (RR of 0.90 for aspirin, 0.76 for beta-blockers, and 0.84 for lipid-lowering medication)
the study authors noted that the benefits of ramipril observed during the active period of the HOPE trial were maintained during post-trial follow-up for cardiovascular death, stroke, and hospitalisation for heart failure
additional reductions in MI, revascularization, and the development of diabetes were observed during the follow-up phase despite similar rates ACEI use in the 2 randomized groups
benefits associated with ACEI use were consistent regardless of patient risk or ancillary treatments
the benefits observed in the study extension data indicate that the 4.5 years of initial, "earlier" use of ramipril therapy provided a longer-term protective effect compared with later initiation
during the follow-up period, there was not observed an additional treatment effect for stroke
blood pressure was similar during the post-trial follow-up and suggests that an important mechanism by which strokes may have been reduced during the blinded part of the study (where there was a modest difference in blood pressure of 3/2 mm Hg) was blood pressure lowering
the study authors concluded that ACE inhibitor therapy should be used in most patients with vascular disease or diabetes and additional CV risk factors
Vitamin E in the prevention of cardiovascular disease:

study evidence (1,3) has provided no evidence of benefit of vitamin E supplementation in the prevention of the development cardiovascular disease
Vitamin C supplementation in the prevention of cardiovascular disease:

in a large, long-term trial of male physicians, neither vitamin E nor vitamin C supplementation reduced the risk of major cardiovascular events (3)
Homocysteine lowering therapy and stroke risk (4)

HOPE 2 investigators have analyzed stroke outcomes among participants of the HOPE 2 trial that randomized 5522 adults with known cardiovascular disease to a daily combination of 2.5 mg of folic acid, 50 mg of vitamin B6, and 1 mg of vitamin B12, or matching placebo, for 5 years
among 5522 participants, stroke occurred in 258 (4.7%) individuals during a mean of 5 years of follow-up. The geometric mean homocysteine concentration decreased by 2.2 micromol/L in the vitamin therapy group and increased by 0.80 micromol/L in the placebo group
the incidence rate of stroke was 0.88 per 100 person-years in the vitamin therapy group and 1.15 per 100 person-years in the placebo group - the hazard ratio
, 0.75; 95% (CI, 0.59-0.97) was significant
vitamin therapy also significantly reduced the risk of nonfatal stroke (HR, 0.72; 95% CI, 0.54-0.95) but did not impact on neurological deficit at 24 hours (P=0.45) or functional dependence at discharge or at 7 days (OR, 0.95; 95% CI, 0.57-1.56)
this study data suggests that homocysteine lowering therapy may have a role in lowering stroke risk
a meta-analysis has suggested that folic acid reduces risk of stroke (5)
Reference:

1. New England Journal of Medicine 2000; 342: 145-53.
2. Bosch J et al. Long-term effects of ramipril on cardiovascular events and on diabetes: results of the HOPE study extension.Circulation. 2005 Aug 30;112(9):1339-4
3. Sesso HD et al.Vitamins E and C in the prevention of cardiovascular disease in men: the Physicians' Health Study II randomized controlled trial. JAMA. 2008 Nov 12;300(18):2123-33.
4. Saposnik G et al.; Heart Outcomes Prevention Evaluation 2 Investigators. Homocysteine-lowering therapy and stroke risk, severity, and disability: additional findings from the HOPE 2 trialStroke. 2009 Apr;40(4):1365-72.
5) Wang X et al.Efficacy of folic acid supplementation in stroke prevention: a meta-analysis.Lancet. 2007 ;369:1876-82.

 

Unbeliever

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

I have white coat suyndrome but it only affecs me in my GP's surgery - not in the hospital. This is not surprising - you would have o meet them!{especially the Nurses}

I have had my own Blood monitor since diagnosis - actually I have two - I'm a belt and braces girl!

I am on 5 mg of ramipiril just as a precautionary measure because of my eye condition. Just o put things in perspecive My readings in the hspital , when just abut to undergo a stressful procedure 125/65. My reading whenever I go to the Drs 200/180.

In the past I have been advised o ignore the first reading I get on my monitor and - when I saw a decent GP to take three readings and use he average - so apparently its one of those things where evryone has thier own pet theory.

My DSN knows better , of course. All home readings are by heir nature incorrect as all home monitors are rubbish. presenting her with printouts from the manufacurers , British Hypertension sociey and even Nice was a waste of time. She knows best {nturally}

She was however , unable to answer my question which was , if an ambulatory tes shows you to have White Coat Syndrome and home readings are not acceptable - how are you supposed to check that individuals BP?

Regarding low BP , I was originally on a smaller dose of ramipril and passed out several times after taking it at night. I was then advised to take it in he mornings. My caring nurse insisted I had a higher doese of ramipril and on frs aking it my bp remained the same {no variation} for almost two days . I suffered a massive bleed in my eye.

At imes my bp can be quite low . As i know now that this can be as dangerous as High bp I keep a photo of Nursie handy and that soon does the trick! No, not really but its a thought! Diabees and its relaed conditions are really bad for your health aren't they?

Sorry to be facetious but its a fac that you just can't win can you? everything is either too high , too low and the means you choose o try to keep it all under control are fraught with danger oo. meanwhile those who are supposed o advise you can't agree amongst themselves on the best way to proceed..
 

Magill

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

I'm on similar meds to you. I have Amlipodine and Bendroflumethizide in the same dosage but my 3rd pill is Lisinopril. I also have my own BP monitor and my doctor is quite happy to accept a print out of my home readings as, like you I get higher readings in the surgery. Readings at home are around 100/70. It was my Doctor that stated I was obviously being affected by "white coat" syndrome so he would rather use my home readings.

Also like you I have had dizziness which they have not managed to get to the bottom of yet. With me they did prone and standing BP readings and discovered my BP was falling when I changed position but not to the extent that it would cause the dizziness. They also did a complete blood count and found nothing amiss. Other symptom was I always felt as if my ears needed to "pop" (the sort of sensation you get on takeoff in a plane) only they never would. I still feel a bit dizzy but it is much better than it was as I was getting the "room spinning" dizziness before. Doc suspects it might be sinus related but since it has improved they are just keeping an eye on it for now.

Doctor said he hopes to reduce the BP medication once I drop a bit more weight.
 

MaryJ

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

Hi Gilly

For about a year before diagnosis I was taking 2 75mg of Irbesarten and controlling my bp fine

Since diagnosis, Ive lost 49lb and like you started to get dizzy on standing. I also suffer from white coat syndrome and the difference between my docs visit and yours is I had a load of home readings to take with me showing that I was regularly in the 115/70-75 range

The doc immediately told me to drop a tablet, the dizziness improved but didnt go away. So, I dropped the other tablet and it went. I still kept monitoring and when I went to a nefrologist appt (unrelated to my db) he was happy with me coming off the meds (even tho my read with him was 168/103) he kept my record of readings in my notes and said if my bp starts playing up go back on 1 a day

Mary x
 

xyzzy

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

Unbeliever said:
My DSN knows better , of course. All home readings are by heir nature incorrect as all home monitors are rubbish. presenting her with printouts from the manufacurers , British Hypertension sociey and even Nice was a waste of time. She knows best {nturally}

My gp allowed me to come in and calibrate my £15 Omron meter against one they used in the practice to make sure it was accurate. You could ask the DSN if you could do the same :)
 

angua

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

`

Yep I really do think I have WCS !

I have had sinus related issues for over 30 years (disturbed vision, terrible facial and head pain) but since being on bp meds I no longer have any pain and only occasion vision issues. I mention this only because I am aware that this can cause me problems - like head rush or dizziness when I stand too quickly however it passes quite quickly once the catarrh equalises :oops:

My current lightheadedness doesn't stop until I sit down and the 'rush' when I stand is greater and more prolonged

So thank you all for the replies - I ordered my Omron last night, it really does make sense to test at home - tho how my surgery will react I can't be sure, still its my health I'm entitled to use whatever methods I see fit to keep it good.

I suppose its another case of 'find out what's wrong and present the results to your gp' then cross your fingers that he/she is not so dogmatic as to discount your interpretation out of hand

Gilly x


p.s xyzzy - was on ramipril but had to change because I developed an incessant cough
 

xyzzy

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

angua said:
p.s xyzzy - was on ramipril but had to change because I developed an incessant cough

Yep that would make me change too :)
 

daisy1

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

I had this cough too which made me give up Captopril. I was told that anything which ends in "pril" can have this very unpleasant side effect. I had been taking it for years too. I am now on a different medication which hasn't so far had any side effects (Candestartan - not sure if this is available in the UK though).
 

Unbeliever

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

xyzzy said:
Unbeliever said:
My DSN knows better , of course. All home readings are by heir nature incorrect as all home monitors are rubbish. presenting her with printouts from the manufacurers , British Hypertension sociey and even Nice was a waste of time. She knows best {nturally}

My gp allowed me to come in and calibrate my £15 Omron meter against one they used in the practice to make sure it was accurate. You could ask the DSN if you could do the same :)

Oh I have done that- with the GP. The Dsn then insisted that they "start to give fauly readings " after 6 months so my home readings still couldn't be relied upon! I have spoken to one ogf he Gps about it who pointed out that if I had a blood pressure problem my opthalmologist would be immediately aware of it as he was when my ggs wrere uncontrolled as it shows first in the eyes, I see he opthalmologist very frequently and he sees no signs of high BP.

The DSN is completely illogical and is just trying to create work for herself. I imagine that some jobs must be under threat.
The GP has promised o speak to her about it but I don't expect it will make much difference. I spend enough time as it is on medical issues . If I won hat particular bale she would find something else. She has never forgiven me for bringing down my levels to the point where she can no longer ry to put me on insulin - which i think is in her comfort zone.

These people really do exist. I think we will see more of it. Every minute must be accounted for on their time sheets and when two are involved they squabble over who "owned " the patient.

The last time I had to have a blood est, the HCA couldn't get the blood {in the blood cliic " and had o ask one of the sisters to try.
She spen the whole ime elling me how kind she had been o fit me in. Because there was an error on the computer she then wanted me o return for a random appoinment just o "put it right" rather han correct the error. I refused. When I go home I looked at the website {five mins after leaving the surgery} and she had found the ime t

o book me in as having had an appointment with HER . Patients are certainly second to the stas in my Practice.
 

MaryJ

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

angua said:
`
So thank you all for the replies - I ordered my Omron last night, it really does make sense to test at home - tho how my surgery will react I can't be sure, still its my health I'm entitled to use whatever methods I see fit to keep it good.
Gilly x

Hi Gilly

Ive not yet come across a GP or consultant who hasn't been delighted I've got evidence of my home BP - I also add to it if I have any reads taken at other clinics -

Mary x
 

ladybird64

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

I was prescribed Ramipril but truthfully, I often forget to take it-I hate taking meds anyway. I had Enalapril before but it made me feel ill.
Trouble with all these meds (for me anyhow) is that you are started on them and just left with the assumption that you will need then forever and a day. The only time my BP is checked is if I go to the gp about an unrelated matter, apart from that they don't bother and neither do I.
 

viviennem

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

Angua, if you have time, make an appointment with the doctor to review your BP meds. The nurse may not have flagged up your comments for checking. (Oh, what a cynic I am :roll: ) As you've lost so much weight, it certainly sounds like time for a review. Explain your dizzyness etc and ask if you can "borrow" the 24-hour monitor to use at home.

The 24-hour monitors are great fun - strapped on to you all day and overnight, and they take a reading automatically every 30mins. It means a disturbed night, and no shower until it's taken off, but well worth it. You get an unbiased record of what your BP does away from the surgery, so the GP can make an informed decision about your meds.

I had an hour in an almost meditative state in the afternoon I wore it, and my lovely GP said I looked to be dead :lol: , it was so low. I'm not :wink:

Viv 8)
 

Unbeliever

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

MaryJ said:
angua said:
`
So thank you all for the replies - I ordered my Omron last night, it really does make sense to test at home - tho how my surgery will react I can't be sure, still its my health I'm entitled to use whatever methods I see fit to keep it good.
Gilly x

Hi Gilly

Ive not yet come across a GP or consultant who hasn't been delighted I've got evidence of my home BP - I also add to it if I have any reads taken at other clinics -

Mary x
Quite right Mary, neither have I - and NICE is all for it . Its just my DSN.... I don't know how you can keep track otherwise. Having it checked a couple of times a year is not enough. You might only discover raised levels after the damge had been done.
Even if they are not as accurate as the monitors in the surgery hey will still show trends in he same way that bg meters do.
I was acually advised to ge on on diagnosis by the Specialist diabetes GP. Its just as important as testing your blood.
I am not sure why the DSN thinks i would want high BP but then I don't understand where she's coming from about anyhing.
 

stillo

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Re: Any Type 2's on blood pressure meds ?

Im on 100mg loasrtan potassium and 40mg Furosemide, i have never in the last 10 years had my blood pressure within normal limits i am currently running at 170-181 over 95 -121, i have seen a cardiologist and he tells me i have no problems with my Heart, only problem with the Furosemide is i can pee for England

Stillo
 

angua

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angua said:
Just a little update, I received my Omron (thanks for the encouragement) and over the course of 3 days my average bp was 117/79 highest was 127/89 lowest was 104/77

I rang the doctor and told him I'd been monitoring at home and gave him the results and he confirmed that I need to drop one of my meds (Amlodipine) its taken a couple of days to feel better (half life of Aml is apparently 33 hrs) but I'm now no longer getting dizzy and generally feeling downright vile :D

He asked that I continue to monitor :thumbup: at home and he'll talk to me again in a month - my bp has still stayed around 117/80 so I'm hoping that its going to stay this way - maybe when I lose the other 60lbs I won't need any !


Gilly x