Type 2 TYPE OF FAT I CAN EAT

@Q007

There's loads of info on this thread.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cholesterol-and-statins.156985/

I presume you are taking statins after your MI which have been know to cause elevated blood sugar levels.

Just from where do you accept advice?

Take all the offence you wish. Rather simple equation. Weigh up the evidence, make up your own mind, but not much point in shooting a messenger on this forum when they didn't raise the question.

Q, Have you read/subscribed and considered all the relevant articles in zoeharcombe.com?

Q007 said:

TYPE OF FAT I CAN EATt

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I eat beef, mutton, pork fat, bacon / ham fat, dairy fats such as butter, cheese, yoghurt. I use olive oil and a canola oil spray.

Life is to short for me to worry about what fats I was eating when i was getting my T2 under control and which I will be continuing to eat.

It probably helped my cholesterol levels a long as well.

Total Cholesterol 3.70 mmol/L
HDL (High density lipoprotein) 1.75 mmol/L
LDL (Low density lipoprotein) 1.54 mmol/L
Triglycerides 0.89 mmol/L
Your Total Cholesterol of 3.70 is DESIRABLE
Your LDL of 1.54 is OPTIMAL
Your HDL of 1.75 is OPTIMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 0.89 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 2.11 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) IDEAL
Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 1.136 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 0.508 - (preferably under 1.74, ideally under 0.87) IDEAL

EDit: Missing test text.

No one can tell you how many grams of carbs per day to have that will lower your bg. You will have to eat-test to find the right amount for you.

See Virta Health Studies for info on LCHF/Keto diet 1 Year and 2 Years results.

Trans fats are not only a poor choice for those with Diabetes they are unhealthy for all. For published articles in Medical Journals (which will tell you that I-TFs have been linked to cardio vascular disease and some cancers) then Google the journal of your choice be it BMJ, Lancet, JAMA etc and use their search function. It is interesting to note that the USA have banned I-TFs and that some European countries also have bans though others have decided to restrict amounts rather than go with a full ban.

Q007 said:

Thanks for sharing what you do, all these cases build up dont they.

You're right though, life is too short for me with heart failure and out of range diabetes, I'm trying to stop the info I was told that 50% of HF patients will die in 5 years as an average, diabetes is estimated to shorten life by 10%, so you're right again, life is too short. Wish you well for your journey and hope it's a long one.

Just wish I could get a clear answer on the several questions I keep asking;

A) is 100 carbs a day OK as a down to point for a 6' male with my conditions

B) why are trans fats bad for us diabetics and who claimed medical proof that switching to LCHF is OK to eat saturated fats.

C) Is there equivalent advice for
Introducing fats like there is for
The annual 'actual' XPERT published results. A paper published by someone like the bmj would be a start, just something to cling to.

I am seeking advice here. Wishes, Q

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Q. As this is a forum, if you ask 100 people a question, you are likely to get 100 different answers. Best to sift through the answers and draw your own conclusions. Again, this is what I had to do and did.

If you want a good example, look at Tipetoo’s history.

Q007 said:

Thanks for sharing what you do, all these cases build up dont they.

You're right though, life is too short for me with heart failure and out of range diabetes, I'm trying to stop the info I was told that 50% of HF patients will die in 5 years as an average, diabetes is estimated to shorten life by 10%, so you're right again, life is too short. Wish you well for your journey and hope it's a long one.

Just wish I could get a clear answer on the several questions I keep asking;

A) is 100 carbs a day OK as a down to point for a 6' male with my conditions

B) why are trans fats bad for us diabetics and who claimed medical proof that switching to LCHF is OK to eat saturated fats.

C) Is there equivalent advice for
Introducing fats like there is for
The annual 'actual' XPERT published results. A paper published by someone like the bmj would be a start, just something to cling to.

I am seeking advice here. Wishes, Q

Click to expand...

People have been giving you good advice right throughout his thread based on their own personal experience and results with LCHF. You seem to of accepted that carbs must be lowered Which is an important step forward, but you can't accept that a eating sat fat is the right idea. Eating sat fat doesn't mean eating it by the bucket load, if that's a concern to you. I'm a bit confused as to why you don't seem willing to or perhaps are fearful of sat fat and won't accept advice from the same people who you did accept advice from on carbs?

You seem to want scientific proof that sat fat is good for you. And that seems to be what is holding you back from even trying to give it a go. No one says you have to, but people giving their opinions on how they improved their condition/s by adopting a LCHF diet and often posting their results on the forum (Blood work etc) is evidence that eating a diet with sat fat in a reasonable amount hasn't done them harm. Because you can actually see the improvement, which is often done so in a short space of time, but not always.. That is data. It may not be posted on a medical journal, but just like medical journals it's on the internet and does come up in google searches sometimes. Outside of this forum there are a good number of doc's who follow LCHF....

You've asked on a previous post "I want to know how we got to fats and stuff are good and better for you.?" I think the question should be, "How did we get to eating fats is bad for you."? Because up until we got to eating fats is bad, it wasn't a problem.

Point I'm making, if you're still awake is that you won't find all the answers in studies and expert per reviewed published material. These can be very helpful, but you won't find all the answers on this forum either, sometimes you've got to take a change in direction and go find the answers yourself. Be willing to experiment (safely), if you are not willing to experiment to some degree then nothing changes and answers remain out of reach. A lot of us here have done this, finding what works for the n=1

A)Is 100g of carbs a day a good starting point, sure, you seem to be wanting to start at that and if that is a comfortable starting point then go for it. People who go LC will pick all sorts of starting points amounts.

B) Trans fats are bad, reason why have been pointed out in this thread. Who claimed eating sat fats via LCHF is ok? A lot of people who have posted on this site with their results from following LCHF. Which often shock their treating HCP's.

C). I can't answer that last one. It just doesn't seem relevant to me imo.

Everyone is trying to help, remember that. No one is trying to set you on the wrong path. You don't have to go out and gorge on sat fat, but fatty acids are essential for a reason. I hope you can settle your mind, best wishes to you.

Q007 said:

Thanks for sharing what you do, all these cases build up dont they.

You're right though, life is too short for me with heart failure and out of range diabetes, I'm trying to stop the info I was told that 50% of HF patients will die in 5 years as an average, diabetes is estimated to shorten life by 10%, so you're right again, life is too short. Wish you well for your journey and hope it's a long one.

Just wish I could get a clear answer on the several questions I keep asking;

A) is 100 carbs a day OK as a down to point for a 6' male with my conditions

B) why are trans fats bad for us diabetics and who claimed medical proof that switching to LCHF is OK to eat saturated fats.

C) Is there equivalent advice for
Introducing fats like there is for
The annual 'actual' XPERT published results. A paper published by someone like the bmj would be a start, just something to cling to.

I am seeking advice here. Wishes, Q

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I can sure understand how you feel, I have been a bit through the mill myself. Heart attack, quadruple by-pass surgery, pre diabetes and last year added metastatic prostate cancer to the list...........Sure there is a lot of conflicting information on the internet and some of our doctors seem to be not entirely up to date. I read a lot worried a lot and then realised that I alone can make the decision re high or low fat. I understood that high fat is perfectly healthy as long as it is accompanied by low carbohydrates. In any event this WOE seems to be good for heart disease and diabetes so I made the decision to give it a try.
It worked very well for both issues[ really the same issue as both are metabolic syndrome driven]. I am now into my eighth year on the LCHF WOE and still standing. Blood tests ,show much improved glucose control and greatly improved lipid panels.
So what can I say, keep reading, learning and observing positive changes. Above all keep a positive mental attitude and tell yourself always that things are going to improve. I wish you all the very best for your best efforts.

@Q007 , dunno if this may help answer some questions, but saw this on facebook this morning and thought of you. (Written by a specialist and a dietician)
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb...Bu1tyxxwr2b84Gl9oIxMEwQDU-SWEksxzt8XN0k#worry

JoKalsbeek said:

@Q007 , dunno if this may help answer some questions, but saw this on facebook this morning and thought of you. (Written by a specialist and a dietician)
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb...Bu1tyxxwr2b84Gl9oIxMEwQDU-SWEksxzt8XN0k#worry

Click to expand...

I was just looking at that on facebook and thought I might post it for Q to look at, but you already did...

Q007 said:

Thanks for sharing what you do, all these cases build up dont they.

You're right though, life is too short for me with heart failure and out of range diabetes, I'm trying to stop the info I was told that 50% of HF patients will die in 5 years as an average, diabetes is estimated to shorten life by 10%, so you're right again, life is too short. Wish you well for your journey and hope it's a long one.

Just wish I could get a clear answer on the several questions I keep asking;

A) is 100 carbs a day OK as a down to point for a 6' male with my conditions

B) why are trans fats bad for us diabetics and who claimed medical proof that switching to LCHF is OK to eat saturated fats.

C) Is there equivalent advice for
Introducing fats like there is for
The annual 'actual' XPERT published results. A paper published by someone like the bmj would be a start, just something to cling to.

I am seeking advice here. Wishes, Q

Click to expand...

Reading /subscribing to zoeharcombe.com shoukd be able to assuage your concerns about saturated fats and going onto a lchf diet. She agrees that transfats are bad for everyone. She is a nutritionist with PhD whose PhD was in researching heart disease and saturated fats. That is scientific research being analysed. You can either believe false scienceas many health professionals do or those who have looked at the science and found the faults, falseness and sometimes deception that has occurred.
I believe there is enough in the references given you to weigh up the two sides.
There are a number of levels of low carb diet, 120 g carbs and down. The benefits of a ketogenic diet occurs with a very low carb diet = 35 g carb per day. These benefits include weight reduction, improved bsls and in some cases reduction in medication required or reversal if T2D.
Some health profesionals will have read a BMJ article of 2018 which asserts that low carb diets increase the risk if heart problems. Zoe Harcombe in her articles totally debunks that assertion and the research and shows up the statistical flaws in the article.
What more do you really need to read in order to either follow say very low carb diet or acquiese back to Xpert?

Just for clarity. Industrial Trans Fats (I-TF) and Sat Fat (Saturated Fatty Acids - SAFAs) are two very different fats.
There are about a dozen different fats and no one natural food is wholly made up of a single fat but come with different amounts of SAFAs, Monos and Polys. The key is to avoid man made fats and stick to the natural type which are in dairy, meat, eggs etc

Q007 said:

B) why are trans fats bad for us diabetics and who claimed medical proof that switching to LCHF is OK to eat saturated fats.

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Trans fats are bad for everyone, thats why they have been banned in a lot of countries. Trans fats are found in hydrogenated fats
Good article on transfats and Cholesterol: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...d-cholesterol/in-depth/trans-fat/art-20046114, excpt the outdated bit at the end about saturated fats.

I have given you 2 links upthread about saturated fats and the misinterpretation of data in the 70's which led to them being unfairly blamed for heart disease etc.

Its OK for everyone to eat some saturated fats, not just diabetics on LCHF. We need some fat in our diet for our bodies to work properly, the choice of fat is the question, not choosing whether to eat fats or not. Just switch any unhealthy fats for healthy ones like butter, olive oil etc. The one which havent been messed about with. Thats all you have to do. Dont increase your fat intake, have the amount recommended in your Xpert course, just make sure the fats you do eat are the healthy one, and see what happens.

Read the linked articles in this thread, watch the videos, take your time.

I’d echo what several have said. Til you can read up enough to convince you, or get a cholesterol test showing positive results after trialling it for yourself, choose “good fats” like olive oil, butter, nuts, oily fish etc Avoid “low fat” anything, margarines, seed oils and vegetable oils. Avoiding these and processed foods will pretty much avoid trans fats anyway.

Some people don’t need to add a lot more than that to feel satiated. Particularly if you have weight to lose then that’s where some of your fat requirement will come from. Some do need a bit more but it’s not eating daily blocks of lard that we advocate!

Keto, and to some degree all low carb variations, is about setting a limit of carbs, reaching a decent and reasonable amount of protein to protect muscles etc and then adding enough fat for energy and satiety. Fat is an adjustable lever.

All the levels can vary depending on an individual, not just their gender and height but also activities and metabolism and comorbities and degree of insulin resistance and longevity of diabetes etc etc etc. This is why we can’t give a carb, protein or fat level that is right for you. We all pick our best guess from our research and see if it gives enough improvement. If it does great. If it doesn’t then we adjust it.

100 carbs sounds a reasonable place to start. It’s low enough for some but be aware for many it isn’t low enough to get the desired results and may need lowering in the future once you have tested hb1ac at that level or are still seeing big rises between pre and post prandial readings. If you’re hungry or tired choose more fats that you are happy to eat. Make sure you drink enough and keep electrolyte levels up as they can fall without processed foods and with more fluids. Ie add a little salt or eat magnesium and potassium rich foods.

There are only 2 certainties in life......Death and Taxes.......you are asking a question that is impossible to answer with certainty, other than the answers you've already been given........natural fats are better for you than the man made ones.
Whether you decide to eat butter or margarine is up to you.....my choice is butter always has been and I see no reason to change to plastic fats.