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Understanding Daily BG changes

D

Dewatte

Newbie
Messages
3
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi, I'm new to the Forum so apologies if this has been covered.
I am 67, type 2 and on 2x 500mg Metformin. Otherwise fit and active. Use Accu-Chek Mobile tester intermittently.
I am puzzled as to why my BG can be lower during the day than first thing in the morning. Eg. Yesterday 5.5 at 2030 hrs after normal evening meal and drinks at approx 1900 hrs. BG can also be in the 5s between lunch and dinner. At 0800hrs next day the reading was 7.2, which is in my normal fasting level range of between 6.5 and 7.5. Where is the glucose coming from overnight whilst sleeping? If one asks the doctor a question like this the answer tends to be ' You shouldn't be testing at all. Just get on with your life'. The fact is testing is available and it's natural to want to know what's going on in your own body.
Dewatte
 
This is your liver providing your body with glucose as over night during your fast the cells would have depleted them. Unfortunately as you are diabetic the liver and pancreas are out of step so you liver gives and your pancreas increases insulin but your cells resist so your levels go above normal. It is known as dawn phenomenon and is the classic insulin resistance response
 
Hello and welcome,

Yes, it is your liver dumping glucose in your system in the mistaken belief you are in starvation mode, so it decides to give you a spurt of energy to get you going when you wake up. This can also happen at other times of day if, for example, you skip a meal, or during/after exercise. It is often the last reading to come down to within a normal range, and to be frank, there is little you can do about it. There are a lot of threads about it on the forum (and Google) Search for "liver dump" or as Andrew said "Dawn Phenomenon" Metformin is supposed to help with this.
 
I can't speak highly enough of a compressed eating window version of intermittent fasting to reduce fasting BG levels - after 3 years of following LCHF without normalising my fasting levels, I finally got normal levels by fasting 16 hours a day.
 
Indy51 said:
I can't speak highly enough of a compressed eating window version of intermittent fasting to reduce fasting BG levels - after 3 years of following LCHF without normalising my fasting levels, I finally got normal levels by fasting 16 hours a day.
Click to expand...
Hi Lindi, could I please ask what the compressed eating window means? My morning bg seems to be on the rise, I know I have other factors but am interested to learn more about control
 
There's a lot about fasting on this thread:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/fasting-for-type-2s.73800/

Compressed eating window for me means I fast for 16 out of each 24 hours - so an 8 hour window where I eat. Most people do it by skipping breakfast to prolong the overnight sleeping fast, but that doesn't work for me. Because of a hiatal hernia and long history of reflux, I find I sleep much better on an empty stomach, so eat between 7am and 3pm. This usually means a normal breakfast and my main meal around 2pm, sometimes a smaller snack mid to late morning if I'm feeling hungry. I'm also following a LCHF way of eating, averaging around 50g of carbs a day.

Hope that helps @Mrsmac247 :)
 
Thank you very much for explaining that for me as well as your personal way of doing it @lindy51 I shall have a read on the thread linked
 
Indy51 said:
I can't speak highly enough of a compressed eating window version of intermittent fasting to reduce fasting BG levels - after 3 years of following LCHF without normalising my fasting levels, I finally got normal levels by fasting 16 hours a day.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering why that works? If I don't eat for sixteen hours my BG levels rise as the liver releases more glucose. Doesn't your body respond in that way?
 
There becomes a point when you start to use the fats stored and the liver and pancreatic fat is the first to go and hence the improvement in fasting. Similar to the rapid improvement you see on a very low calorie diet after a week or so. Interestingly @Indy51 how long did it take to reduce using this technique?
 
Andrew Colvin said:
There becomes a point when you start to use the fats stored and the liver and pancreatic fat is the first to go and hence the improvement in fasting. Similar to the rapid improvement you see on a very low calorie diet after a week or so. Interestingly @Indy51 how long did it take to reduce using this technique?
Click to expand...
It took about 3 months and getting below the weight loss I initially achieved with LCHF - I'd taken my eye off the ball a bit and slowly regained 6 kgs. I've now lost around 7 kgs and finally got my waist measurement to the apparently magical 80cm. BMI went from 25.4 to 22.8. I'm assuming I've finally lost more than the 30% of liver fat that seems to be the threshold required for normalisation of fasting levels according to Taylor and Fung.

Initially my postprandial levels were worse, even on reduced carbs, but that seems to slowly be improving as I continue the intermittent fasting, even though the weight loss seems to have stalled. So I'm assuming I still have pancreatic fat. I've never quite had the will power to go for the full VLC dieting regime but find this 16 hour fasting routine very manageable, so will continue for the time being. This time I'm determined not to take my eye off the ball. It would have been nice to go a bit lower in weight, to have a bigger safety net, but apparently my body is rebelling :(
 
Andrew Colvin said:
There becomes a point when you start to use the fats stored and the liver and pancreatic fat is the first to go and hence the improvement in fasting. Similar to the rapid improvement you see on a very low calorie diet after a week or so. Interestingly @Indy51 how long did it take to reduce using this technique?
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. My BM is 19 but I don't know whether that means that I still have liver and pancreatic fat or not. It's a pity one can't choose from which body area the fat is used up! ;-)
 
jgordon5 said:
Thanks for that. My BM is 19 but I don't know whether that means that I still have liver and pancreatic fat or not. It's a pity one can't choose from which body area the fat is used up! ;-)
Click to expand...
You may be one of the people who really have impaired insulin release in which case this method may not be relevant to you. Still, it should be possible to try intermittent fasting without massive weight loss as long as you eat the required number of calories within the compressed eating window - I believe the method is also used as a tool for changing body fat/body composition.
 
Indy51 said:
You may be one of the people who really have impaired insulin release in which case this method may not be relevant to you. Still, it should be possible to try intermittent fasting without massive weight loss as long as you eat the required number of calories within the compressed eating window - I believe the method is also used as a tool for changing body fat/body composition.
Click to expand...
Thanks Indy51 - is there a good site to look at for this method please?
 
I realised part way through that mostly t2 diabetics try IF. I'm type 1 but I was interested because it sounds like it might give more stable and lower BG readings. But there seem to be mixed views on how good/useful it is for t1s so I think I'll do some more reading before I try it.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Hello and welcome,

Yes, it is your liver dumping glucose in your system in the mistaken belief you are in starvation mode, so it decides to give you a spurt of energy to get you going when you wake up. This can also happen at other times of day if, for example, you skip a meal, or during/after exercise. It is often the last reading to come down to within a normal range, and to be frank, there is little you can do about it. There are a lot of threads about it on the forum (and Google) Search for "liver dump" or as Andrew said "Dawn Phenomenon" Metformin is supposed to help with this.
Click to expand...
I m facing this issue of dawn but now a days getting relief
by ashwaganda ayurvedic tabs. Also getting good sleep
 
Andrew Colvin said:
This is your liver providing your body with glucose as over night during your fast the cells would have depleted them. Unfortunately as you are diabetic the liver and pancreas are out of step so you liver gives and your pancreas increases insulin but your cells resist so your levels go above normal. It is known as dawn phenomenon and is the classic insulin resistance response
Click to expand...
Bluetit1802 said:
Hello and welcome,

Yes, it is your liver dumping glucose in your system in the mistaken belief you are in starvation mode, so it decides to give you a spurt of energy to get you going when you wake up. This can also happen at other times of day if, for example, you skip a meal, or during/after exercise. It is often the last reading to come down to within a normal range, and to be frank, there is little you can do about it. There are a lot of threads about it on the forum (and Google) Search for "liver dump" or as Andrew said "Dawn Phenomenon" Metformin is supposed to help with this.
Click to expand...
Indy51 said:
I can't speak highly enough of a compressed eating window version of intermittent fasting to reduce fasting BG levels - after 3 years of following LCHF without normalising my fasting levels, I finally got normal levels by fasting 16 hours a day.
Click to expand...
 
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