Understanding: Glycaemic index VS Glycaemic load

[add19]

Which is better? glysemic index or glysemic load?

 

[Indy51]

Glycemic load is generally considered to be a more accurate calculation. There's also how you actually manage to calculate it once you try to factor in other macronutrients - most people don't eat carbs in isolation.

But it would depend on whether you find either concept useful as a diabetic. Personally I don't - as far as my body is concerned, a carb is a carb is a carb. I also wonder whether the low, long impact of low GI carbs is all that helpful - it means your insulin is raised for longer dealing with those carbs. As I heard one body building dude put it, "marinating your cells in insulin" - not too helpful for diabetics, IMO.

 

[mrbee]

Neither is 'better' than the other, they are both integral aspects of the same thing and in order to get the best from your food choices you need to use/understand both if you plan on using a GI system.

Glycemic Index, is the rate at which carbohydrates essentially burn up and enter the blood stream as 'fuel', some call this the 'quality' of the carbohydrate and Glycemic Load is the amount of carbohydrates in the item, essentially you can view it as the workload your body/blood is put under by consuming the item or alternatively you can view it as the amount of fuel it provides, so the lower the load the less fuel it provides and vice versa.

So for example you can have a food, which is high GI but Low GL...Such as watermelon and if you were only concerned with the GI you may be avoiding it (as many diabetics seem to avoid many fruit but happily eat bread, pasta, beans etc.) because you believe it is bad due to its high GI, when in fact, the GL is so low that it is considered minimal, in other words, yes it ‘burns’ fast but the load is so tiny that you are unlikely to experience any large fluctuations in BG and if you do, they will likely be very short lived.

So in short, to keep spikin to a minimum, you are looking for foods with moderate to low GI and a moderate to low GL for best control if plan on using GI/GL as part of your regime and plan to include various carbohydrate in your diet (as I do) as opposed to attempting to avoid them all together.

Choice of diet of course often depends on what medication you (or someone you know if you are just investigating for someone else) are taking, for example I know T2s who take oral meds only or oral meds and incretin mimetics who swear by LCHF and will not budge and would have all diabetics on this regime if there were some way to enforce such a thing.

I know others who (like myself) because we take insulin, have a bit more freedom over what carbs go into our diets because we have a method (to some degree anyway) of direct control over how those carbs are treated, i.e., we can (though I tend not to myself) if we choose to do so, take an extra unit or two of insulin.

The best and most useful advice I believe anyone can give or get regarding food, you can try all manner of things and diets, and I tried the GI/GL thing, but the most useful thing I have taken on board once I finally stopped being in denial, is learn how to manage portion sizes, calorific intake and eat normally, I hear people say ohh yeah that’s how we got to be this way in the first place eating that ‘normal’ food, but in truth, we got this way (most of us at least though I accept not all) because we were greedy and made poor food choices.

I often find your average T2 eats too much of most things in truth, and though many of us don’t like to admit this fact, it is unfortunately, largely true, you can see this with the fact most T2s are overweight but many of us just don’t like to hear it.

Myself, when I used to listen to the nurse say this, I used to try to convince myself I was doing my best and she didn’t quite understand me blah blah…when I knew really I could do better and she knew it too…

So now I do my best to stick to less than 2500 cals, average about 1900 cals a day, no more than (yes some will freak out) 200g carbs in one day average about 130g (and note these are not targets they are limits) and I eat a variety of food from fruits to pies to biscuits here and there, the only difference is now, I understand what a proper portion is and generally have a meal of between 400-650 cals and a couple of snacks or treats, depending on what I have and when in the day it is.

I now understand how food affects me, it has become second nature now, I rarely overeat, I eat what I like (to a large extent) and just accept it needs to be accounted for, and I have also learned to be much calmer about it all, and I have lost over 3 stone since accepting my own part in my condition about 2 years ago, I was diagnosed back in 2005 so it’s taken a little while.

I often have BG in the 5-7 range, I don’t use extra insulin as an easy way out, I generally find i have no need to anyway as long I eat sensibly, and I take minimum amount of novo-rapid, usually no more than 1 time a day, because I don’t want to increase my potential for added weight, I take Levemir once a day at night, and I have metformin and though to my shame, I do little physical activity (I work as a PC Tech so often sat infront of a PC), though I have recently began to walk more..

Whatever path you decide to tread, I wish you luck and hope that you find something that works for you and fits in with your lifestyle, and you will have half the battle won…

 

[add19]

Neither is 'better' than the other, they are both integral aspects of the same thing and in order to get the best from your food choices you need to use/understand both if you plan on using a GI system.

Glycemic Index, is the rate at which carbohydrates essentially burn up and enter the blood stream as 'fuel', some call this the 'quality' of the carbohydrate and Glycemic Load is the amount of carbohydrates in the item, essentially you can view it as the workload your body/blood is put under by consuming the item or alternatively you can view it as the amount of fuel it provides, so the lower the load the less fuel it provides and vice versa.

So for example you can have a food, which is high GI but Low GL...Such as watermelon and if you were only concerned with the GI you may be avoiding it (as many diabetics seem to avoid many fruit but happily eat bread, pasta, beans etc.) because you believe it is bad due to its high GI, when in fact, the GL is so low that it is considered minimal, in other words, yes it ‘burns’ fast but the load is so tiny that you are unlikely to experience any large fluctuations in BG and if you do, they will likely be very short lived.

So in short, to keep spikin to a minimum, you are looking for foods with moderate to low GI and a moderate to low GL for best control if plan on using GI/GL as part of your regime and plan to include various carbohydrate in your diet (as I do) as opposed to attempting to avoid them all together.

Choice of diet of course often depends on what medication you (or someone you know if you are just investigating for someone else) are taking, for example I know T2s who take oral meds only or oral meds and incretin mimetics who swear by LCHF and will not budge and would have all diabetics on this regime if there were some way to enforce such a thing.

I know others who (like myself) because we take insulin, have a bit more freedom over what carbs go into our diets because we have a method (to some degree anyway) of direct control over how those carbs are treated, i.e., we can (though I tend not to myself) if we choose to do so, take an extra unit or two of insulin.

The best and most useful advice I believe anyone can give or get regarding food, you can try all manner of things and diets, and I tried the GI/GL thing, but the most useful thing I have taken on board once I finally stopped being in denial, is learn how to manage portion sizes, calorific intake and eat normally, I hear people say ohh yeah that’s how we got to be this way in the first place eating that ‘normal’ food, but in truth, we got this way (most of us at least though I accept not all) because we were greedy and made poor food choices.

I often find your average T2 eats too much of most things in truth, and though many of us don’t like to admit this fact, it is unfortunately, largely true, you can see this with the fact most T2s are overweight but many of us just don’t like to hear it.

Myself, when I used to listen to the nurse say this, I used to try to convince myself I was doing my best and she didn’t quite understand me blah blah…when I knew really I could do better and she knew it too…

So now I do my best to stick to less than 2500 cals, average about 1900 cals a day, no more than (yes some will freak out) 200g carbs in one day average about 130g (and note these are not targets they are limits) and I eat a variety of food from fruits to pies to biscuits here and there, the only difference is now, I understand what a proper portion is and generally have a meal of between 400-650 cals and a couple of snacks or treats, depending on what I have and when in the day it is.

I now understand how food affects me, it has become second nature now, I rarely overeat, I eat what I like (to a large extent) and just accept it needs to be accounted for, and I have also learned to be much calmer about it all, and I have lost over 3 stone since accepting my own part in my condition about 2 years ago, I was diagnosed back in 2005 so it’s taken a little while.

I often have BG in the 5-7 range, I don’t use extra insulin as an easy way out, I generally find i have no need to anyway as long I eat sensibly, and I take minimum amount of novo-rapid, usually no more than 1 time a day, because I don’t want to increase my potential for added weight, I take Levemir once a day at night, and I have metformin and though to my shame, I do little physical activity (I work as a PC Tech so often sat infront of a PC), though I have recently began to walk more..

Whatever path you decide to tread, I wish you luck and hope that you find something that works for you and fits in with your lifestyle, and you will have half the battle won…

That's very resourceful information. Yeah, I hear you. lack of exercise and stress are also the factors that can make it hard to control BG. I am on the skinny side though. T2. Diagnosed 3 years ago. My HBAIC was 9%. I used to take Met500mg twice a day. gradually reduced the dosage to once a day when it went down to 5.6% It continued to drop down until it's stable at 5.2%. Am off meds now without exercise(I used to run on an elliptical trainer 3-5X a week the first year after my diagnosis). I want to gain weight and eat nuts and avocado on the daily basis but not helping much.

 

[mrbee]

That's very resourceful information. Yeah, I hear you. Lack of exercise and stress are also the factors that can make it hard to control BG. I am on the skinny side though. T2. Diagnosed 3 years ago. My HBAIC was 9%. I used to take Met500mg twice a day. Gradually reduced the dosage to once a day when it went down to 5.6% It continued to drop down until it's stable at 5.2%. Am off meds now without exercise (I used to run on an elliptical trainer 3-5X a week the first year after my diagnosis). I want to gain weight and eat nuts and avocado on the daily basis but not helping much.

I have found a food diary invaluable, and it works both ways, i.e. if you are looking to lose OR gain...the basis of this is initially to discover not so much what you eat, though of course this is useful and helpful over time, but really to actually see how much you eat...This could help you figure out how many cals you are ingesting on average and then you can adjust up to increase your daily calorific intake as required.

Also nuts and avocado are great (I love Brazils (though not too many as they are really high in Selenium) and Walnuts) but you could also (if not already) include more good fats such as virgin oils (though not too much i guess) and do things like keep the skin on your chicken (if you eat chicken of course) and keep the fat on your bacon (again if you eat bacon) all these thing will add additional calories for next to no effort...you could also get yourself a weight gain powder from the health store (if you can afford it) which will give you a ton of extra calories...but I would these days always try to get the most mileage from real food where possible, and only include the powder if you are in 'training' and need to get the bulk without fail or at a quick pace and/or cant or don’t want to put the effort in to a regime with real food...

Also agree, stress is a sod, one of my own issues has been lack of sleep, another problem I have struggled with for ages as my fasting BG were always high, and it was a really frustrating time for me as I could go to bed reading 7.8 and wake up with BG of 13.5 * I was on metformin and Victoza at that time.

I spoke to my Doc about this and the poss of being a T1.5/LADA as they reckon about 20% of all T2 could have been misdiagnosed, and despite me improving my diet, losing weight and various other things, my BG was just creeping up and anything I ate would send me through the roof, so was wondering just how much insulin I was actually producing, and finally the Doc decided I needed insulin as the Victoza obviously was not working and I had shown that I had been eating better, and to be honest it’s been a blessing for me as my BG came down over weeks and has stayed there. Doc refused to test me anyway as he said the treatment was pretty much the same and at that stage there seemed little point to testing me for LADA. So I said fair enough and just got on with learning how to administer my insulin...

I have read some stuff too about how stress hormones, both awake and sleeping, when released in to the blood stream increase insulin resistance too, which makes life a bit more tricky when trying to control BG. I do notice if I sleep 'nicer' i.e. I have had a nice easy day, and I slept well, my fasting BG tend to be lower...again, I was keeping a BG diary and making notes so this all became rather useful over the longer period.

Best wishes...

 

[Lamont D]

I have never in all my years counted anything, except the number of times, that I have to test myself with my monitor.
Keeping a food diary and recording all your foods and results is such an important part of any diabetic lifestyle.
You need to know and get information on how food affects your body and the only way to do that is to eat to your meter.
You have a journey ahead of you where some of your favourite foods are trying to make you ill, you will discover foods that you have never had before in the hunt for your health. It is the foods that don't spike you that will be healthy for you.
Reducing your plate size, cutting out the snacks, doing more, even just walking a little bit more will all help get your blood glucose to where you want to be.
Low carb, higher fat will work if you get your own personal choice of foods that your body can cope and tolerate with.
You have to tailor your diet, so you can eat to your meter and test, test, test, experiment, experience, test, test, test!
Counting calories, carbs, food, weight, means nothing if you are eating the foods that make you ill.
Hope you work it out!

 

[tim2000s]

you can have a food, which is high GI but Low GL...Such as watermelon

Erm... That's not how I would have described watermelon!

I spoke to my Doc about this and the poss of being a T1.5/LADA as they reckon about 20% of all T2 could have been misdiagnosed,

According to the ADA, they found the stats they had showed that under the age of 35 it was about 25% of LADA were misdiagnosed as T2 and 10% of those aged over 35. My money would be on it being higher than that!

 

[add19]

I have found a food diary invaluable, and it works both ways, i.e. if you are looking to lose OR gain...the basis of this is initially to discover not so much what you eat, though of course this is useful and helpful over time, but really to actually see how much you eat...This could help you figure out how many cals you are ingesting on average and then you can adjust up to increase your daily calorific intake as required.

Also nuts and avocado are great (I love Brazils (though not too many as they are really high in Selenium) and Walnuts) but you could also (if not already) include more good fats such as virgin oils (though not too much i guess) and do things like keep the skin on your chicken (if you eat chicken of course) and keep the fat on your bacon (again if you eat bacon) all these thing will add additional calories for next to no effort...you could also get yourself a weight gain powder from the health store (if you can afford it) which will give you a ton of extra calories...but I would these days always try to get the most mileage from real food where possible, and only include the powder if you are in 'training' and need to get the bulk without fail or at a quick pace and/or cant or don’t want to put the effort in to a regime with real food...

Also agree, stress is a sod, one of my own issues has been lack of sleep, another problem I have struggled with for ages as my fasting BG were always high, and it was a really frustrating time for me as I could go to bed reading 7.8 and wake up with BG of 13.5 * I was on metformin and Victoza at that time.

I spoke to my Doc about this and the poss of being a T1.5/LADA as they reckon about 20% of all T2 could have been misdiagnosed, and despite me improving my diet, losing weight and various other things, my BG was just creeping up and anything I ate would send me through the roof, so was wondering just how much insulin I was actually producing, and finally the Doc decided I needed insulin as the Victoza obviously was not working and I had shown that I had been eating better, and to be honest it’s been a blessing for me as my BG came down over weeks and has stayed there. Doc refused to test me anyway as he said the treatment was pretty much the same and at that stage there seemed little point to testing me for LADA. So I said fair enough and just got on with learning how to administer my insulin...

I have read some stuff too about how stress hormones, both awake and sleeping, when released in to the blood stream increase insulin resistance too, which makes life a bit more tricky when trying to control BG. I do notice if I sleep 'nicer' i.e. I have had a nice easy day, and I slept well, my fasting BG tend to be lower...again, I was keeping a BG diary and making notes so this all became rather useful over the longer period.

Best wishes...

Wow. a lot to learn from you. Thanks again. Once I realized my fasting is between 80-90 off med, I stopped regularly monitoring my BG. I mostly managed my diabetes through change of diet. Since there are stressful moments at work and can’t do anything about it, I should start exercising soon. One thing I noted from you is, how you spent the day, your mood and sleep pattern could affect the fasting BG. Makes sense.

I find Diabetes depressing. I don’t enjoy food as much as I used to before my diagnosis. When it’s too cold or too hot it spikes you anyway even if you eat right. You can’t eat anything without feeling guilty. Can’t be sure which restaurant food is right for you. I miss those days I didn’t have to worry about what I ate. But am hanging in there.

 

[mrbee]

Erm... That's not how I would have described watermelon!

According to the ADA, they found the stats they had showed that under the age of 35 it was about 25% of LADA were misdiagnosed as T2 and 10% of those aged over 35. My money would be on it being higher than that!

Re Watermelon, maybe I have misunderstood your post, and of course I need to point out to other readers the excerpt you have quoted is easily read out of context...I am not saying you SHOULD eat watermelon I was simply using it as an example.

Just to re-iterate the known facts (As far as we can truly know) Watermelon has an average recorded GI of about 72 (classed as High GI) and has an average Glycemic Load of about 4 (classed as Low GL) hence, according to the GI/GL scale watermelon is indeed High GI & Low GL, so as I said, reaches the blood real quick but has minimal ‘energy’ so in theory should not put a huge spike in your BG or one that lasts for very long or both in some folks, so am not really sure what you are pointing at in truth.

Out of interest, how would you describe it?

Also there are a ton of foods that fall into this category, and some will affect people more than others of course, it ll depends on what you generally eat, how muc activity you perform, when you eat, etc...as most of us advise, try it out in small amounts, test, and keep records where you can, educate yourself and learn what affects you big time and what foods you can get away with on the occasion and those foods you can have that do very little to your BG, one of my favourites being sugar free jelly...

I don’t really know if you have misread my statement or I have just misunderstood what you are trying to get at...

Re LADA yeah its becoming more apparent there are more folks with this type of diabetes, I know a gal (well she’s 42) and she has just been diagnosed with diabetes, but not type 2 and of course her Doc says she’s too old for T1, so he told her she was T1.5 which tickled her...I suspect as you do, that there are lots more folks out there with this type of diabetes and hopefully more folks will get diagnosed correctly going into the future...

Best wishes…

 

[mrbee]

Wow. a lot to learn from you. Thanks again. Once I realized my fasting is between 80-90 off med, I stopped regularly monitoring my BG. I mostly managed my diabetes through change of diet. Since there are stressful moments at work and can’t do anything about it, I should start exercising soon. One thing I noted from you is, how you spent the day, your mood and sleep pattern could affect the fasting BG. Makes sense.

I find Diabetes depressing. I don’t enjoy food as much as I used to before my diagnosis. When it’s too cold or too hot it spikes you anyway even if you eat right. You can’t eat anything without feeling guilty. Can’t be sure which restaurant food is right for you. I miss those days I didn’t have to worry about what I ate. But am hanging in there.

LONG POST:

All of those things you have spoken about, I, and I suspect many other good folks have gone through at some point.

Try not to get too distressed by it. I know that’s tough sometimes and I agree with all you have posted so I will tell you a little of some of my own steps. I spent a good number of years, in denial somehow being desensitised to it all, after all so many people have it now, its common, and you just blow it off like it’s nothing to worry about.

After some time, maybe 3-4 years I started to notice things, like retinopathy screening, the lady says, ooh you have a bit of nerve damage, nothing serious but doctor will tell you to keep an eye on it (yes pun intended). I though huh, maybe I should take notice, and take some active part in my own health/treatment.

I knew a fair few T2s and a fist full of T1s (who I find generally behave a little better, mostly because they have had to learn to deal with it from a much younger age so they generally seem more relaxed, more skilled, in the replacement pancreas role). Most the T2s I knew had poor attitudes, they would say things like, oh yeah I’ve just eaten 2 apple pies, I’ll just have an extra metformin, and I thought, that’s not really how it works…is it John

My BGs were creeping up, and I was paying for my own BG testing strips and needles at this point as my surgery point blank refused to supply me with any.

I would have good days and crazy through the roof days, and at this point I was on Metformin and Gliclazide, and the BGs were rising. Every time I spoke to the nurse or Doc they would just give me a load of feedback about how it was all me, I wasn’t eating right, eating too much, not enough exercise, which was tall true to some extent, I just hadn’t reached the point I needed to be at in both properly dealing with myself and with the my diabetic support team.

So I decided to lose some weight, did Slimming World for a bit, I kind of liked it, it dawned on me, though they kind of help in a lot of ways, the one thing they tend not to deal with, greed, most SW buddies I had, were still pretty greedy, yes you can have a stack of ‘free’ foods, but it doesn’t help you deal with your underlying problem, greed…and it doesn’t help you understand the value of your food. You can learn about these things, as I did but I also realised, I couldn’t live SW for the next 30 years, it just was not going to work for me.

In the end I packed up, having realised I was still greedy, I still had cravings for sweet things and pastries, and despite having lost some poundage, I realised, I was just looking for an easy option.

I just came awake one day, there is no easy option and any path I took looking for an easy way out, could only really end up as a failure. So I decided the only real way to live, day to day and for all other days in my future, was to eat real food, food I can afford, food I can access, eat more sensibly, curb my greed and learn about the value of food, not just the carbs, but the proteins, fats, calorific values etc…

I had folk telling me all kinds of stuff ranging from the fantastical to the cold hard truth. Some of it, useless and some of it sobering, some of it scary too. Anyway I got a bit down about it all, panicking and beating myself up for being such a Richard Head, it was suddenly a huge task, more panic and denial, I had been flapping away, trying to look like I had been trying hard when really I had just wasted about 5 years or more.

Fell back into nonsense for a while, quoting reasons why I had to eat out, or grab a pie, or drop into Mcdonalds, yes yes I was just so busy, busy, busy, couldn’t possibly manage to find the time to organise my food properly. One day I was talking to a friend of mine, and she says you know that Big Tasty, its like nearly 900cals…cripes (or something along those lines). While I was in there, some woman was at the counter causing a right stir because they had no milk shakes, and she was top volume, and she was banging on about what could she have now, she is diabetic, what am I supposed to drink now, bang…bang…on…and on…anyway I thought to myself, my goodness does she not realise that there are like 1000 and 1 billion calories in them milkshakes and enough sugar to knock a big dog to sleep (even I knew that)…

And this made me think…what the hell am I doing wasting 900 calories on this Big Tasty thing, it’s not even that nice…And I kept remembering the woman, ranting on at the McDonalds staff who were trying to offer her a Sprite Zero or something, and I thought, she really needs to educate herself, and also stop being a big cry baby.

So I went home and started to look about, what could I get for 900C, how does my Metformin actually work, what the hell is an incretin mimetic…and my fire was alight.

Then I had a few months up and down, busy some days, 2 month stretch working away from home, my BG was climbing and I was really frustrated, because by now I had lost over stone since visiting the Doc last, I had been keeping an eye on my carbs, and still my fasting BG was going up. Had a moan to the nurse about it all and felt like no one was listening. Gave up for a bit.

Then a friend of mine, had both his legs amputated (he has passed away now) due to diabetes. This was a smack in the face. Got me back in the driving seat. I started a food diary, pressed my nurse for BG testing strips, showed her my diary to show I was trying, lost another half stone, spoke to the Doc about this morning thing, and how I felt about the Victoza, he decided I could take insulin.

So did a few more weeks, food diary, BG diary, keeping under 2500C a day (Avg about 1950) started walking a bit more (not enough but more than I used to), started to get a grip on my food as I was by now not having to weigh every single thing, and of course I knew cals, carbs and protein of lots of the foods I had been eating, so even the food diary was getting easier. Lost another half stone in that 6 weeks despite the nurse telling me most folks put weight on with insulin.

But I had learned something really valuable, something a friend of mine (who is a doctor) said a number of years back about ‘putting fuel in’, you can’t put more fuel in than you burn otherwise you will grow more little storage tanks (fat cells) and for most folks this is undeniably true. So when I accepted (and had proof thanks to my initial food diaries) that I was simply eating too much, I worked on it.

I started by buying food that was measured out, such as sliced cheese, cheese triangles, Weetabix, a can of soup, I also bought things in smaller packets, say buy 4 bread rolls instead of a loaf, and if I wanted a loaf I bought a Danish/Nimble. When that was part of my routine, I then started buying things I could measure more, such as bigger pots of cottage cheese, yogurt, things that basically you need to measure to discover how much a portion is. Then you can figure it all out, figure out the calories, how many carbs, how much protein etc…and you can then take from it what you need in order to suit your lifestyle and choices.

Now, if I want KFC for example, I may get a Mighty Bucket for one, I know it’s about 1200C I swap the fries for corn usually, and I know I can make it through the day with 800C left, I’ve done it a few times…If I want a pie, I have one, I want a cake, I have one, I use full fat milk, I eat full fat yogurt, I like fried eggs, bacon with fat, butter, I eat fruit, and I eat cereals and breads, sandwiches out, etc. And still I lost about 1lb per week as long as I kept under 2500C for at least 5-6 days a week and I was averaging 1950C over the week despite hitting over 3000C sometimes due to things like lazy KFC day, some days, I would just eat less, sometimes I knew I needed to and other times I just did not feel like it or was just busy.

The real difference now, I portion it out, in the respect that I know I have a limit and when that limit is reached I curb it, I look for value in calories, just like you do say with money, I imagine it is like a bank of coins and I can spend my stipend on things I like but I can only spend X amount, it’s not some unlimited buffet with no consequences, there is always a payback at some point and mine was diabetes.

I am much more at ease with my food now and I think this has really helped me because I don’t feel like I am in some constant battle with it, being controlled with cravings and desires nor embroiled in some big drama on a daily basis where I constantly worry about what I can eat, I just know as long as stick within my limits I am doing ok and I have lost over 3 stone now.

Whatever you choose to do, whatever food plan you go with, my advice, educate yourself, learn about your meds, your condition, learn about food, its values, how it affects you, how it helps, how it hinders. Talk to your nurse/doctor, be honest with yourself and them, they can’t help you otherwise and most of all, know you are not alone, there are a ton of people who know a lot about this condition, and how to live with it, happily and not feel like you are trapped.

Best wishes…

 

[mrbee]

Counting calories, carbs, food, weight, means nothing if you are eating the foods that make you ill.

I agree, to some extent, it is important to eat healthy foods whenever you can and try not to exacerbate your condition, however this is not always possible for some folks, thus I cannot and do not agree with '...means nothing...', it all means something...every step in the right direction,every little victory, no matter how seemingly small, or no matter how pointless it seems to other people who have a slightly different condition or slightly different lifestyle, is useful and it can and does have a postive effect on the bigger picture...almost everything in life has some value, wether we see it or not...is another matter...sometimes the best you can do is achieve balance and not fall over for a while...and that in itself is sometimes good enough...

Best wishes...

 

[Lamont D]

I agree, to some extent, it is important to eat healthy foods whenever you can and try not to exacerbate your condition, however this is not always possible for some folks, thus I cannot and do not agree with '...means nothing...', it all means something...every step in the right direction,every little victory, no matter how seemingly small, or no matter how pointless it seems to other people who have a slightly different condition or slightly different lifestyle, is useful and it can and does have a postive effect on the bigger picture...almost everything in life has some value, wether we see it or not...is another matter...sometimes the best you can do is achieve balance and not fall over for a while...and that in itself is sometimes good enough...

Best wishes...

I agree, but, what I meant was for example, if someone unknowingly has a wheat intolerance, which rockets their blood glucose levels and all the advice is to keep eating bread and cereals (which is what most medical practitioners and dieticians insist) then that someone has not got much chance of getting control of their diabetes. Most T2s can tolerate small amounts of foods that slightly raise their bloods. And that's where most T2s should target.
Unfortunately my condition doesn't allow that, total control all the time.
There are so many benefits to getting your low carb diet right. Even if that means, that you do very low carb to help your insulin resistance and get weight down and for all diabetics get real good control because that is where the main health benefits will be in evidence.
Then, you can try some relaxation in your diet. But it still has to be healthy for you personally!

Best wishes.

 

[Brunneria]

I don't find Gi or GL at all helpful to me.
All they did was encourage me to eat fixed portions of foods thinking it was OK.

Then as soon as I got a blood glucose meter I discovered what a load of crock the whole thing was - with certain foods sending my blood glucose ridiculously high, and others having no effect despite the GI/GL.

Far better to forget all the GI/GL calculations.
Just get a blood glucose meter, test before and 2 hours after food, and only eat foods that don't spike your blood glucose

Simple
Elegant
Easy
And perfectly tailored for your personal tolerances

 

[mrbee]

I don't find Gi or GL at all helpful to me.

Agreed, it did not work for me either, just did not feel you have any real control or insight, carbs, calories, fat, protein, all tangible and useful...to me at least, though of course I accept other folks get on with GI/GL and various other approaches to ther food intake.

For me my main goal was to lose some weight (I was 21st 8 when I started to actually make some effort) and now I am 17st 10 so a few more pounds to go, but limiting my calorific intake to a reasonable amount works for me. I try to eat sensibly but sometimes I eat not so great food, say if i am at party or a bday dinner, I eat what I like, within reason of course, Im not saying you should or could eat a plate full of chips and bread and a pound of cake and iced cream, but that you can often find some middle ground to tread...say a steak with a jacket spud...and often when I eat out for Bdays or something like that, I will share a dessert with my missus or mom so I get some nice treat but dont go crazy.

For me losing weight has improved my BG hugely, and my main focus in losing weight was calorific limiting, its helped me learn about food, how to get the best value from my 'allowed' calories and how it affects me. Just testing would not have done this, yes I agree it would tell me which foods spike and that it could be an idea to potentially avoid that food, but it would not tell me how much I was eating, nor help me curb my appetite, which was obviously an issue for me,

I did not and still do not want to stay obese (as far as I can) so I needed to know how much was going in and I also kept/keep an activity diary so I could alway be sure I was burning more than I ate.

My appetite is now somewhat reduced, thus I just generally eat less without thinking about it, this in turn means I am putting less food/carbs into my blood, which in turn has made an impact on my BG...

It goes without saying that ideally you should test yourself, but bear in mind, many T2s dont get any testing equipment and a fair few cannot afford to purchase them (I know meters are free but the strips and needles are not). I was in this position, the surgery would not give me any testing equipment, I purchased my own and paid for them whenever I could, but I did not have them every week or month...so the point being, its great advice testing, but if you aint got access to readily available equipment or cannot afford it then that kind of scuppers the testing, testing,testing advice a little...

You can work on your food, you dont need equipment, it takes a bit of effort to get going but has been an incredible source of info and historical data for me, if you have a computing device you can of course use one of the online food and activity diaries which make life even easier to keep track of your grub and activity...

Best wishes...

 

[Brunneria]

The majority of T2s who seem to post here don't get funding for their meters.

The most commonly suggested option (because it is cheap) is the SD Codefree. The last time I checked the prices it was about £13 for a meter (one off purchase), £7 for 50 test strips (repeat purchase, with discounts for multibuys), and free postage if bought from the manufacturer.

After the initial meter purchase, it works out at around £1 a day, if testing 7x a day.

Obviously, not everyone can find a £1 a day, but most of us can. In fact, anyone who buys sandwiches or coffee instead of making their own, or who smokes, or drinks, or buys branded groceries...

Plus, of course, that we diet controlled T2s rarely actually need to test so often. I mean, how many times do you need to test a breakfast you eat every day? Just test carefully to map out the regular meals, then keep the precious test strips for meals out, new ingredients and spot checks.

 

[mrbee]

The majority of T2s who seem to post here don't get funding for their meters.

Agreed, which is why the often (though not so much here) the usual barrage of, 'yeah all you need to do is test test test, I don’t bother with nothing else, I eat my meter, it’s all I need, Keep It Simple Stupid attitude, blah blah' type of advice, is actually far from helpful or in fact is about as much use to you as a fart in spacesuit when you don’t have access to it and cannot afford it at that point...

People need other inputs as to how they can start to control their food intake, suggestions on what approaches may work, where to start, what to watch out for etc, whether it be calorific value, carb counting, GI/GL, LCHF or one of the many other exotic (shall we say) diets that exist out there...And to be fair there is some fantastic advice on this and many other forums providing such advice, but the flip side, there is also lots of drivel, lots of haughty attitudes, and sometimes you even see some victim blaming…yeah we can agree to a large extent most of us probably did it to ourselves, but this is not true of everyone, and it also doesn’t help the person deal with it right now, right here either…

And as I say, I agree testing seems fundamental really, which is why the vast majority of us would agree that even if those who don’t currently get funding for testing equipment, where lucky enough to actually have access to at least the minimum (say 50 strips) a month, it would benefit them hugely in dealing with their condition, irrelevant of which food plan they commit to at that time, but this is not going to happen until the NHS/NICE/Govt. change the policy (and though many of us know they, the NHS trusts, were not supposed to 'blanket ban' some surgeries clearly do) and of course as we have agreed, until some folks change their own habits and attitudes such access is probably going to remain firmly in the denied camp..

Obviously, not everyone can find a £1 a day, but most of us can. In fact, anyone who buys sandwiches or coffee instead of making their own, or who smokes, or drinks, or buys branded groceries...

Well I agree to some extent, and I don’t know what other folk do or what they are involved in, I do some work for a debt/money advice charity, and though there are lot of folks who could deffo do better as you mention who think the Govt is supposed to give them everything they ever need in life and who dont seem to understand the Govt dont actually earn money, its the masses who earn the money so that the Govt can pay them their benefits and give them free NHS stuff, and of course there are those folks who could clearly afford it, but dont see why they should or dont think its important enough.

But there are tons of folks, and the number is growing, who often go unseen by the masses, who simply cannot afford or justify a £1 outgoing, who have to visit the food banks whenever they have been approved to do so. Those folks who truly are poor for whatever reason, and there are a good many I can assure you, they are just not going to spend £28 a month on strips/needles etc, they would rather feed their kids, eat beans on toast and have the odd roll up and stay warm. I could say more about this but I figure that’s enough, I’m sure we all get the picture...and understand it’s not always as straight forward as swapping your posh coffee or co-op sarnie or tailor made ciggies for cheaper alternatives so you can buy some testing strips as sometimes you have no alternatives cos you dont buy posh coffee or shop butties in the first place and buy the cheapest baccy in the shop already, and dont bother with filters...

In respect of the OP, they asked about GI/GL and they got a couple of 'in context' answers, which I do hope has helped them at least a little bit about what GI and GL are and how they work, and maybe better understand if this approach can work for them or not, maybe it has sparked their interest enough to go and do some more research and investigate further. Also remember the OP is 'skinny' and they where looking to gain poundage, so the meter again though important becomes less of an issus as they can just make simple changes,such as using full fat milk and yoghurt, eating a bit more cheese, keeping fat on bacon, a few nuts etc, and for all that has been said here, in my opinion, the best way for the OP to acheive this, is to start a food diary (as I and a couple of folk have mentioned already) and record how many cals they eating, (and carbs to if they like along with fat content and protein if they want to go the whole hog), and increase them until they are at a point where they are gaining the desired amount of pounds a week/month...and when they reach their target, they can then start to scale it back by however many cals they need to be at their 'normal' weight and all will be recorded.

But who knows if the OP has access to testing equipment, maybe they do and will choose to ignore all the GI/GL, LCHF, Calories this and that, and take the advice to just test, eat, test...KISS, who knows?

Best wishes to you OP, Brunneria and all who have given their valuable input on this question/thread.