Update

[Win71]

I had a phone call from DN which i forgot i had, Hba1c 78, in July next appointment and blood checked is December bruising can be part of diabetic, where blood vessels get smaller, and strict drastic diet changes she is putting note to dr as 7stone in 6 weeks now is a lot to lose and needs to check my other issues pernicious anemia, low b12 and folate so more bloods, i was also told i do not need to check bloods finger prick, as i am not on insulin or and medication for diabetics, confusing how do you know you on right track if not checking to see what foods spike your bloods, this is NHS advice to not test unless medicated so they do not need to provide you with device and all items needed, so i told her i will keep checking, after she said 4.7 my last results for BG under 4 i could have a hypo, so i will buy what i need, to keep check i feel should get what need to prevent further issues

 

[lucylocket61]

I am sorry, but are they not checking your weight loss is accurate? Even total starvation wont produce 7 stone weight loss in 6 weeks. Its not humanly possible. Are you sure you mean stones? A stone is 14 lbs in the uk. So you are saying you have lost 98lbs in six weeks. Is that correct? My daughter is 7 stones. Sorry to ask for clarification, but this is worrying me for your sake.

What was your starting weight?

 

[Fenn]

7 stone in 6 weeks? Wow that is fast

Edit, sorry posts crossed, I agree with Lucy, that seems an awful lot

 

[lucylocket61]

PS are you on any meds for diabetes? I cant find any information on your profile page. What type of diabetes do you have, I am assuming type 2?

 

[AloeSvea]

I will never understand how medical professionals can look a person with diabetes in the eye, and say it is not necessary/good/beneficial/helpful for us to self-monitor our blood glucose. But many can, and do. I can only shake my head in disbelief. I totally agree with you @Win71 - how it is possible to know if you are on the right track if we don't fingerprick. Yes, many of us have wondered if it is about the cost, and I fear many of us are correct to wonder. Although I might hasten to add - antidiabetic drugs cost quite a lot too (as does kidney dialysis, amputations, bariatric surgery). So there is something else going on here. Or, if we are not being cynical about the pull of surgeons and the pharmaceutical industry, then those studies that say self monitoring is not necessary/good/beneficial/helpful for us, I am cynical enough to wonder about those studies, but maybe I should be cynical about my own cynicism?

Anyway - yes - the weight loss. I did my conversion of stone to kg and see that you have lost nearly 45kg in six weeks? Wo ho! No wonder folks are saying 'Wo ho!". That is a lot indeed. But we don't know what percentage of your body weight that is? (I hate maths, so it was my GP who talked about percentage lost, and of course I have forgotten...) That's probably the key here to folks freaking, or not. But you must be celebrating? That is significant weight loss indeed.

 

[Win71]

I will never understand how medical professionals can look a person with diabetes in the eye, and say it is not necessary/good/beneficial/helpful for us to self-monitor our blood glucose. But many can, and do. I can only shake my head in disbelief. I totally agree with you @Win71 - how it is possible to know if you are on the right track if we don't fingerprick. Yes, many of us have wondered if it is about the cost, and I fear many of us are correct to wonder. Although I might hasten to add - antidiabetic drugs cost quite a lot too (as does kidney dialysis, amputations, bariatric surgery). So there is something else going on here. Or, if we are not being cynical about the pull of surgeons and the pharmaceutical industry, then those studies that say self monitoring is not necessary/good/beneficial/helpful for us, I am cynical enough to wonder about those studies, but maybe I should be cynical about my own cynicism?

Anyway - yes - the weight loss. I did my conversion of stone to kg and see that you have lost nearly 45kg in six weeks? Wo ho! No wonder folks are saying 'Wo ho!". That is a lot indeed. But we don't know what percentage of your body weight that is? (I hate maths, so it was my GP who talked about percentage lost, and of course I have forgotten...) That's probably the key here to folks freaking, or not. But you must be celebrating? That is significant weight loss indeed.

yes since going fasting weight has dropped off, i`v probably taken it more drastic and first 2 weeks i would only have 300calories a day, and 4litres water, past 4 weeks i have been no more than 800/1000 calories a day i messed up one day and ate what i wanted, bad mistake i felt so sick and zero energy, because i have underactive thyroid i struggle to be as active as i would like, plus wheel chair, so this is why the drastic calories cut, glad you pointed out about bread i used to eat lots breakfast lunch evening meal all had some form of bread, wraps, pitta bread, naan bread with one meal a day i do feel less sluggish i still fight being lethargic but as i lose weight i hope my energy levels will improve i have another 10 stone to lose, and was reminded today that weight lose will start to slow down, i am ok with that as long as i keep losing

 

[Win71]

I am sorry, but are they not checking your weight loss is accurate? Even total starvation wont produce 7 stone weight loss in 6 weeks. Its not humanly possible. Are you sure you mean stones? A stone is 14 lbs in the uk. So you are saying you have lost 98lbs in six weeks. Is that correct? My daughter is 7 stones. Sorry to ask for clarification, but this is worrying me for your sake.

What was your starting weight?

I thought my new scales were wrong so i placed a 2lb bag of dishwasher salt on to check them and it was right, 11July i was 174kg 27 stone 4lbs and today i am 130kg 20stone 4lbs i have type 2 no meds i am hoping to diet control, i am in Scotland UK 16oz = 1lb, 14lb = 1stone This is why DN is putting a note to my dr as she said yes we want you to lose but this is a fast weight lose in a short time, So dr should contact me this week

 

[lucylocket61]

Wow! And an underactive thyroid. I hope they can find out why it's so quick a loss. Have you had weight loss surgery? Please keep us posted that all is well with you.

 

[Win71]

Wow! And an underactive thyroid. I hope they can find out why it's so quick a loss. Have you had weight loss surgery? Please keep us posted that all is well with you.

No weight lose surgery i`ll keep updated i won`t let it go until i am sure nothing else is the cause, i lost my mum to cancer she lost 10stone in 3 months and drs said it was with grieving, but good for her diabetic, 2 weeks later after a heart attack she had lung cancer which had already taken over her body and brain 6weeks later she passed so i am not very trusting on drs

 

[HSSS]

yes since going fasting weight has dropped off, i`v probably taken it more drastic and first 2 weeks i would only have 300calories a day, and 4litres water, past 4 weeks i have been no more than 800/1000 calories a day i messed up one day and ate what i wanted, bad mistake i felt so sick and zero energy, because i have underactive thyroid i struggle to be as active as i would like, plus wheel chair, so this is why the drastic calories cut, glad you pointed out about bread i used to eat lots breakfast lunch evening meal all had some form of bread, wraps, pitta bread, naan bread with one meal a day i do feel less sluggish i still fight being lethargic but as i lose weight i hope my energy levels will improve i have another 10 stone to lose, and was reminded today that weight lose will start to slow down, i am ok with that as long as i keep losing

Omg 300 calories a day? Now still only 1000 when you are 130kg? No wonder you have no energy and are lethargic. I know there are some very low calorie diets out there to assist with weight loss but doing it to this extreme and with this kind weight loss needs medical supervision to manage thing like vitamins, minerals, heart rate and pressure and lots of other things. Please do talk with your doctor sooner rather than later rather than risk creating another problem by losing too fast in a harmful way. You need to lose the weight yes but you need to lose it safely.

 

[AloeSvea]

My understanding is that @Win71 IS being medically supervised, isn't that right? Hence the nurse getting the doc in on it. Perhaps this post more belongs in 'Fasting'? Or in 'Weight loss/dieting', as it looks like a very successful version of both! Unless of course there is something wrong, but the medical professionals will be onto that if there is.

Otherwise, VLCDs and no-food fasting even, when you have quite a bit of stored fat, are rarely dangerous. Some would argue that they aren't dangerous even if you are normal weighted (as I have done them as a normal-weighted person). Where one has probs with no-food fasting, or VV LCDs like the 300 cals a day for a couple of weeks, would be if you were underweighted to begin with. And clinical underweighted is a BMI of less than 18.5 - and that is pretty thin all right! Or at least - with very very little fat stored anywhere! Which is not the case here. That's me weighing in on the subject, as it were.

 

[HSSS]

My understanding is that @Win71 IS being medically supervised, isn't that right? Hence the nurse getting the doc in on it. Perhaps this post more belongs in 'Fasting'? Or in 'Weight loss/dieting', as it looks like a very successful version of both! Unless of course there is something wrong, but the medical professionals will be onto that if there is.

Otherwise, VLCDs and no-food fasting even, when you have quite a bit of stored fat, are rarely dangerous. Some would argue that they aren't dangerous even if you are normal weighted (as I have done them as a normal-weighted person). Where one has probs with no-food fasting, or VV LCDs like the 300 cals a day for a couple of weeks, would be if you were underweighted to begin with. And clinical underweighted is a BMI of less than 18.5 - and that is pretty thin all right! Or at least - with very very little fat stored anywhere! Which is not the case here. That's me weighing in on the subject, as it were.

I read it as a routine diabetes check caused the nurse to become concerned by the weight loss and referring by a note to the dr.

I have no issues with fasting per se, nor even a well constructed and balanced vlcd, even if it’s not for me. But a diy job without monitoring health metrics and nutritional balance over time especially at these sort of starting points and at this speed to me at least needs some sort of check. I’m not just thinking of becoming underweight but all the other metabolic processes, vitamins and minerals that are involved.

 

[Outlier]

I’m not just thinking of becoming underweight but all the other metabolic processes, vitamins and minerals that are involved.

I agree with both of you - just wanted to add that if going very low calorie, those calories we do eat have a big job to do, so should be highly nutritious.

 

[Win71]

I read it as a routine diabetes check caused the nurse to become concerned by the weight loss and referring by a note to the dr.

I have no issues with fasting per se, nor even a well constructed and balanced vlcd, even if it’s not for me. But a diy job without monitoring health metrics and nutritional balance over time especially at these sort of starting points and at this speed to me at least needs some sort of check. I’m not just thinking of becoming underweight but all the other metabolic processes, vitamins and minerals that are involved.

dr was not concerned, only DN when i had call yesterday, dr already knew weight lose, but DN wants to put note to her as fast lose in very little time

 

[Win71]

Omg 300 calories a day? Now still only 1000 when you are 130kg? No wonder you have no energy and are lethargic. I know there are some very low calorie diets out there to assist with weight loss but doing it to this extreme and with this kind weight loss needs medical supervision to manage thing like vitamins, minerals, heart rate and pressure and lots of other things. Please do talk with your doctor sooner rather than later rather than risk creating another problem by losing too fast in a harmful way. You need to lose the weight yes but you need to lose it safely.

130kg is 20 stone still 10 stone over weight, because i am in wheel chair i have gone drastic because i have not got the mobility to exercise blood results last week showed thyroid back to normal range, still have to take medication, so the drastic weight lose has helped not only weight lose, but also thyroid, DN is concerned on how fast losing, note to dr so dr should call me, as much as i am happy to lose i also have concerns on how fast

 

[HSSS]

130kg is 20 stone still 10 stone over weight, because i am in wheel chair i have gone drastic because i have not got the mobility to exercise blood results last week showed thyroid back to normal range, still have to take medication, so the drastic weight lose has helped not only weight lose, but also thyroid, DN is concerned on how fast losing, note to dr so dr should call me, as much as i am happy to lose i also have concerns on how fast

It’s great that you are improving your health. Thyroid blood pressure, cholesterol, breathing issues, blood glucose and many many more benefits to being a healthy weight. And many of us lose weight without exercise- they say you can’t outrun a bad diet and that 90% of weight loss is in the kitchen not the gym. Sure exercise has benefits but it’s not the biggest factor required.

My concerns were with 300 calories and the potential for missing nutrients on such a restricted 100 cal intake, along with monitoring existing issues/vulnerabilities caused by having started at such a weight and losing so rapidly.

 

[lucylocket61]

It’s great that you are improving your health. Thyroid blood pressure, cholesterol, breathing issues, blood glucose and many many more benefits to being a healthy weight. And many of us lose weight without exercise- they say you can’t outrun a bad diet and that 90% of weight loss is in the kitchen not the gym. Sure exercise has benefits but it’s not the biggest factor required.

My concerns were with 300 calories and the potential for missing nutrients on such a restricted 100 cal intake, along with monitoring existing issues/vulnerabilities caused by having started at such a weight and losing so rapidly.

Is this a typo? Win71 is having 1000 Cal's a day. Which is still rather low. 1200 is considered the very minimum for a diet lasting more than a couple of weeks.

@Win71 I have long covid and ME and I don't exercise. I have been controlling my type 2 diabetes for over 10 years now through diet only. It's all about controlling carb intake to what our bodies can deal with. We find that safe amount of carbs by using our blood sugar meters to see how food and quantities affect us. We are all different.

 

[AloeSvea]

I read it as a routine diabetes check caused the nurse to become concerned by the weight loss and referring by a note to the dr.

I have no issues with fasting per se, nor even a well constructed and balanced vlcd, even if it’s not for me. But a diy job without monitoring health metrics and nutritional balance over time especially at these sort of starting points and at this speed to me at least needs some sort of check. I’m not just thinking of becoming underweight but all the other metabolic processes, vitamins and minerals that are involved.

Ah. OK. Quite right.

@Win71 - can you ask to be medically supervised at your consult with your doc? (If they don't suggest it themselves.) You might need to get info on fasting off the internet to take with you, if they don't know about VLCDs. Most medical professionals do know about Prof Taylor, and then with Dr Mosley and his fast diets and blood sugar diet, and diabetes organisations have sanctioned these VLCDs, but yes - absolutely - medically supervised indeed.

When I did my first VLCD I had all the Newcastle Uni info for doctors with me (very handily prepared by Prof Taylor and co), but the diabetes specialist nurse I was seeing, and the medical practice (in Sweden - top of the the EU game for diabetes care) were running their own VLCD groups for people with diabetes. I was too late to join in any group, but maybe that was OK - I'm not really a joiner at the best of times. I adored my diabetes specialist nurse and there is not a visit to sub-par medical professionals where I don't miss her still. Sigh. I had an appointment every two or three weeks with her, and an HBA1c at outset of VLCD, in the middle, and at the end. (VLCDs a la Prof Taylor and Newcastle Uni are usually two months, but this can differ according to the person's starting weight and health issues etc.)

Don't expect too much or anything in the "nutritional balance" stakes though! But a nice idea! All depends how on to it your particular health professionals are about such. But what they do do really well is test, and of course they should be doing tests for vitamin D and B12, and any others you or the state thinks they can afford. Most consider taking a multivitamin and mineral is prudent during VLCDs. I did real food. My first one I drank green juices every day - all that kale and spinach and chlorofyl and so on. I was still having fruit then, so a half orange or apple a day as well. Oh those were the days.

 

[Win71]

Ah. OK. Quite right.

@Win71 - can you ask to be medically supervised at your consult with your doc? (If they don't suggest it themselves.) You might need to get info on fasting off the internet to take with you, if they don't know about VLCDs. Most medical professionals do know about Prof Taylor, and then with Dr Mosley and his fast diets and blood sugar diet, and diabetes organisations have sanctioned these VLCDs, but yes - absolutely - medically supervised indeed.

When I did my first VLCD I had all the Newcastle Uni info for doctors with me (very handily prepared by Prof Taylor and co), but the diabetes specialist nurse I was seeing, and the medical practice (in Sweden - top of the the EU game for diabetes care) were running their own VLCD groups for people with diabetes. I was too late to join in any group, but maybe that was OK - I'm not really a joiner at the best of times. I adored my diabetes specialist nurse and there is not a visit to sub-par medical professionals where I don't miss her still. Sigh. I had an appointment every two or three weeks with her, and an HBA1c at outset of VLCD, in the middle, and at the end. (VLCDs a la Prof Taylor and Newcastle Uni are usually two months, but this can differ according to the person's starting weight and health issues etc.)

Don't expect too much or anything in the "nutritional balance" stakes though! But a nice idea! All depends how on to it your particular health professionals are about such. But what they do do really well is test, and of course they should be doing tests for vitamin D and B12, and any others you or the state thinks they can afford. Most consider taking a multivitamin and mineral is prudent during VLCDs. I did real food. My first one I drank green juices every day - all that kale and spinach and chlorofyl and so on. I was still having fruit then, so a half orange or apple a day as well. Oh those were the days.

yes i am taking my son with me it is all so confusing i`m thinking fantastic weight lose, until speaking to DN, why my dr wasn`t concerned i really don`t know as i have iron daily and once month injection for pernicious anemia, aswell as folic, b12 tablets

 

[AloeSvea]

Is this a typo? Win71 is having 1000 Cal's a day. Which is still rather low. 1200 is considered the very minimum for a diet lasting more than a couple of weeks.

@Win71 I have long covid and ME and I don't exercise. I have been controlling my type 2 diabetes for over 10 years now through diet only. It's all about controlling carb intake to what our bodies can deal with. We find that safe amount of carbs by using our blood sugar meters to see how food and quantities affect us. We are all different.

Yes, we are all different.

But. There is an enormous body of knowledge and research done on fasting and VLCDs for those with diabetes, and especially since I was diagnosed (ie in the last eight years. There was very little when I first went online and looked into it. Not so now.)

As I said at the beginning, this thread would have been best served in the low-calorie diet section, or even in fasting, as there are lots of people with diabetes like me, who use IF and fasting techniques as part of their treatment. (If 'merely' losing weight, and low-carbing put me in remission I would be long gone and living my low-carb in remission life out of here! .) (Ditto exercise.) But insulin resistance diabetes can be way more complex than many people realise. Just saying.

So - 1200 cals is not the very minimum for a diet lasting more than a couple of weeks. More like 800 for a VLCD. (It was 800 last time I checked.) At 300 - yes - for two weeks, it was closer to a no-food fast leading up to a VLCD. I don't find that shocking, as I did a water only no-food fast (only 3 to 4 days as a normal weighted person, post lower carbing).

Our bodies have evolved to deal with times of famine, and we can survive such well. If we couldn't none of us would be here. And, those of us who put weight around the belly and waist generously (which I am one for sure) - it can be said, and is, that our forebears withstood famines and the paleolithic period because our bodies are so good at storing fat for the future.

Did I experience the two VLCDs I have done as like a period of famine? Oh yes. Do I regret doing them? No. If there was a chance I could put my diabetes in remission, I wanted to try it. I am mildly OCD, so I can do that kind of thing. (I also keep very fullsome records.)