D
Deleted member 573395
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Still working out the best combination for me and trying to exercise more often. I’m T2 and on metformin, no insulin. Thanks!
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Vegetable intake when trying to move from low carb to even lower carb (as a vegetarian)
Still working out the best combination for me and trying to exercise more often. I’m T2 and on metformin, no insulin. Thanks!
Helen40
Well-Known Member
Sorry my bad I wrongly thought you were type 1. Definitely recommend the exercise increase in that case, best of luck
D
Deleted member 573395
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Sorry my bad I wrongly thought you were type 1. Definitely recommend the exercise increase in that case, best of luck
No worries. Thank you
.AshwinShah46
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I have read that fat has twice as much calories as either carbs or protein and so while on low carb high fat diet the total food portion has to be smaller to make sure the total calorie intake does not jump up. may be someone who knows better can say if I have it wrong.
Angela64
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This person had said they’d had many in hospital seriously ill. I’d mentioned it to dr when I’d had appt. She gave me some strips to use in my monitor so
I think so, but maybe start a new thread with your question so we don't take this thread too far off topic?
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Hi and welcome. I think you may not have seen the full picture. Fat in the diet does indeed produce more energy than either protein or carbohydrate. It's a more efficient food.
I don't know if you're diabetic or not, but for those of us with insulin resistance, the problem is usually that our system cannot utilise the food we eat, so excess glucose gets stored as bodyfat or remains in the bloodstream.
The point about a low-carb lifestyle is that it is NOT a calorie-control diet. The issue is limiting carb intake so that (because carbs are digested to glucose) blood glucose levels are lowered to and maintained at preferred levels. Weight loss often follows, as the body uses up its bodyfat stores to make glucose.
So - I've not limited portion sizes at all, but I don't eat bread, rice, pastry (anything flour-based really), most fruit, most root veg, sugar, etc., things that would be digested to glucose. I have never been hungry in nearly four years of eating this way.
HSSS
Expert
Yes ketoacidisis is serious. Nutritional ketosis is different. It sounds like she doesn’t know the difference and is talking about the former.
D
Deleted member 532959
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There are no single nor any combinations of foods or macro/micro-nutrients that lead to fat gain. It is true that fat, having more than double the energy of either carbs or protein. might be slightly more 'dangerous'. But that's only in the sense that it is very easy to rack up a lot of calories with a very small amount. But even then, that'll only become an issue if your total energy input is more than your total daily energy expenditure.
The best way to get a handle on it all is to spend some time tracking i.e weighing and quantifying the foods you eat. (Many online food trackers can help with this). Eventually, you'll start to become pretty adept at portioning the various foods that keep you within the various energy and nutrition requirements which align with your particular goals.
HSSS
Expert
I’d say that is only true if you are actually able to burn the food or macro.
If as a type 2 you can’t utilise carb’s effectively then they become the “dangerous “ one ie the one to take care with.
Fats extra calories also means you tend to naturally eat less of it as it makes you feel fuller for longer than the same weight of carbs.
D
Deleted member 532959
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Could you perhaps elaborate?
Could you please quantify "can't utilise carb's effectively"?
My views and personal experience regarding various macros and/or satiation are likely different to the majority here, and are irrelevant in this context. But it would be expected that if fat and carbs are weight-equalised the fat would provide much more energy...which can, at least for certain people in certain contexts, equal more satiety.
HSSS
Expert
If you eat food you cannot utilise for energy then you have no choice but to store it. The assumption of calories in calories out is that you can utilise anything and everything you eat so long as you eat little enough/are active enough. Now that’s true in a test tube. Not so true in a human body with hormones and flaws.
A fundamental issue in type 2 is that you cannot access the energy in carbohydrates for use (because of insulin resistance) so you have no option but to store that energy as body fat. This is demonstrated by the high unused glucose in blood and the propensity of a type 2 to gain weight. If we could use carbs efficiently we wouldn’t be type 2.
So you agree? Fat is more satiating gram for gram. No only does it provide more calories, that we can actually use, but it doesn’t mess up hunger and satiety hormones the way carbs can leafing to dysfunctional hunger patterns. And whilst you say your views are irrelevant you mentioned them. From my memory of your posts your eating patterns don’t seem to be resolving your diabetes or has that changed?
ajbod
Well-Known Member
The whole object of dietary Ketosis to lose weight, is calculate your metabolic needs, using an online calculator such as My fitness pal. say for arguments sake YOU require 2000 calories. This is what is required to keep YOUR body in a stable state.
Once properly in Ketosis, and fat adapted, hunger pangs disappear, we often find ourselves missing meals because we just don't need them. (eat only when hungry, this is accidental intermittent fasting). Often without realising it, we are eating a calorie deficit. Our bodies make up the difference with body fat. Hence weight loss, whilst our systems remain stable.
If weight loss is the main criteria, actively reduce your calorie intake after a few days in Ketosis, again online calculators help here. By doing this, you are ensuring the calorie deficit, that forces the fat burning.
By restricting your calories to say 1500 a day, you will be burning 500 calories of body fat each day. BUT be aware, as your weight reduces, so does your metabolic requirement. So if you reduce by perhaps 200 calories a day, you will eventually reach a point where 1800 calories is YOUR metabolic requirement, and weight loss will plateau. Every few days have a day where you eat higher calories, and lower calories. This stops the body reducing metabolic functions, to match calorific intake. ( this is where traditional calorie controlled diets stall, because without any variation of intake. the body cuts out less necessary functions, to save energy.)
Everybody has a different level at which they enter Ketosis, from below 20g to as much as 75g a day. Once there, carbs can be increased slightly, whilst staying in Ketosis. But again we are all different, some may have to stay very low to stay in Ketosis.
If the criteria is purely blood sugar control, then your meter will dictate what you eat, and your scales will tell you if it's too much.
Once properly in Ketosis, and fat adapted, hunger pangs disappear, we often find ourselves missing meals because we just don't need them. (eat only when hungry, this is accidental intermittent fasting). Often without realising it, we are eating a calorie deficit. Our bodies make up the difference with body fat. Hence weight loss, whilst our systems remain stable.
If weight loss is the main criteria, actively reduce your calorie intake after a few days in Ketosis, again online calculators help here. By doing this, you are ensuring the calorie deficit, that forces the fat burning.
By restricting your calories to say 1500 a day, you will be burning 500 calories of body fat each day. BUT be aware, as your weight reduces, so does your metabolic requirement. So if you reduce by perhaps 200 calories a day, you will eventually reach a point where 1800 calories is YOUR metabolic requirement, and weight loss will plateau. Every few days have a day where you eat higher calories, and lower calories. This stops the body reducing metabolic functions, to match calorific intake. ( this is where traditional calorie controlled diets stall, because without any variation of intake. the body cuts out less necessary functions, to save energy.)
Everybody has a different level at which they enter Ketosis, from below 20g to as much as 75g a day. Once there, carbs can be increased slightly, whilst staying in Ketosis. But again we are all different, some may have to stay very low to stay in Ketosis.
If the criteria is purely blood sugar control, then your meter will dictate what you eat, and your scales will tell you if it's too much.
D
Deleted member 532959
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indeed! When we eat past energetic needs and past the body's tricks to offset the overage, we will tend to gain fat.
The impact of the various human metabolic processes on energy input is not any revelation. Not only does it not disprove the concept(s) or the science, but it is irrelevant for most practical applications other than the pursuit of pure scientific accuracy.
In my last reply, I asked if you could quantify this idea. Are you suggesting that as a T2D I can't access any of the energy in the carbs I eat, or that I can only access a certain quantity? If it's the latter, can you perhaps share how the variance is stratified?
I said that for "certain people in certain contexts" fat can be satiating. Outside of this particular population, fat is extremely easy to over-eat. And that's the only part of my opinion/experience that I shared. I shared nothing of my views and experience regarding satiety/satiation, nor anything on the topic of hunger
You're correct! Eating a high-ish calorie diet comprised of tons of carbs and tons of fat is not doing me or my diabetes any favours.
D
Deleted member 573395
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Thank you @ajbod for your detailed reply.
Still experimenting here. I’ve been carb counting so far, not calorie counting, in order to reduce my HbA1c (so far so good).
More questions springs to mind!
What kind of blood sugar levels would you expect to see whilst being in ketosis?
And if you have more carbs one day and come out of ketosis, does it take longer to get back there? Will you have undone your efforts?
As we’re all different, I’m guessing there’s no straight answer to either of these.
Still experimenting here. I’ve been carb counting so far, not calorie counting, in order to reduce my HbA1c (so far so good).
More questions springs to mind!
What kind of blood sugar levels would you expect to see whilst being in ketosis?
And if you have more carbs one day and come out of ketosis, does it take longer to get back there? Will you have undone your efforts?
As we’re all different, I’m guessing there’s no straight answer to either of these.
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ajbod
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I did full on Keto prior to a diabetic diagnosis, purely to lose weight. I lost 25 Kg in 4 months ( a sack of spuds ). I have no idea what my blood sugars were at the time, as, as far i was aware i was not a diabetic. although since i had peripheral neuropathy symptoms for 3 years prior to this, i think now i must have been. Shortly after that i was diagnosed as pre diabetic, and now believe the result was skewed, due to the strict Keto i had done. Nowadays i do low carb, i don't measure the carbs i eat, but do avoid as much as possible. My sugar levels tell me if i'm eating a low enough amount. i am convinced if i did strict Keto again, my levels would be in the 4 - 5 range, but i'm happy with them slightly higher, keeping full on Keto in my armory should i require it later. However we ARE all different, and the results i see may not be what you would, maybe not as good as yours.
Intermittent fasting is believed to start fat burning in as little as 12 hours once you are fat adapted. The reason the first time into Ketosis takes some effort and time, is the fact as a species we have forgotten how to utilise this amazing adaptation. Once relearned the body can switch quite quickly between glucose and Ketone bodies as fuel.
Intermittent fasting is believed to start fat burning in as little as 12 hours once you are fat adapted. The reason the first time into Ketosis takes some effort and time, is the fact as a species we have forgotten how to utilise this amazing adaptation. Once relearned the body can switch quite quickly between glucose and Ketone bodies as fuel.
ajbod
Well-Known Member
I can't possibly comment on your situation, as i only take a small dose of Metformin, and the doctor advised to keep taking it despite not needing it. purely as i have peripheral artery disease affecting my legs. only a doctor can advise you of the situation where drugs are concerned. Although to the best of my knowledge Ketones at 2.2 is nowhere near a dangerous figure, but again it's up to your doctor to advise.
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You're clearly able to test your blood glucose and your ketones. The problem is that unless you say what units you're reporting both your blood or your ketones in, I have no idea what your levels actually are.
It would be unwise for me to say anything otherwise.
D
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Wow, that’s some seriously speedy weight loss!
I was also diagnosed after I’d lost some weight so my HbA1c may well have been higher before that time.
