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Was advised against low carb diet

I have been following a low carb diet, lost a lot of weight, cut down on both oral medicines and dosage of insulin. I was quite happy until I went for my dietetic appointment. There I was advised to up my carbs as the loss in weight was due to loss of fat certainly but also muscle.
I've got a balance just now, when I eat more carbs my blood sugars go up a lot and I need far more insulin. I also don't feel as well. Any advice out there? Should I be a rebel and stick to my diet or give in and up my carb intake? I should mention that my present diabetes doctor, a new person, wanted me to lose weight and try to get my insulin down. What should I do?
I have been following a low carb diet, lost a lot of weight, cut down on both oral medicines and dosage of insulin. I was quite happy until I went for my dietetic appointment. There I was advised to up my carbs as the loss in weight was due to loss of fat certainly but also muscle.
I've got a balance just now, when I eat more carbs my blood sugars go up a lot and I need far more insulin. I also don't feel as well. Any advice out there? Should I be a rebel and stick to my diet or give in and up my carb intake? I should mention that my present diabetes doctor, a new person, wanted me to lose weight and try to get my insulin down. What should I do?
Hi - I am a diabetic but also a trainer. Fasting and low carb diets do not use up musle but going low carb will lead to water loss. Unless the doctors measured your fat (this could be done in a low tech way with a tape measure) then I doubt that this is what is happening.
Rebellion sounds like a reasonable option here. Remember your goal is to reduce insulin (your own and that injected) becase insulin resistance is what drives your symptoms (high blood sugars and weight gain where you do not want it are sytmptoms but the underlying issue is still the insulin resistance). So if you eat more carbs and hence take or make more insulin in response then you are making the problem worse even if your blood sugars are temporarily okay. Your level of well-being, feelings of hunger and the results you are getting should drive your decisions. Good luck!
 
@Doctorpdb your topic has been restored. I understand how confusing it is to have your topic removed for any reason. It rarely happens here. This forum is warm, welcoming, and helpful most of the time.

Sorry we got off to such a bad start with you.

Hoping this will help you to find your way back here and you'll eventually begin posting again. :)

Moderator Note: To stop any speculation the OP was aware and the thread was hidden from sight whilst the OPs email address was removed from the username.
 
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Many people in the medical profession seem to be pushing low fat, high carb diets as being healthy. The same people consider diabetes to be a progressive degenerative disease which will get worse over time and requires more and more medication.

Fortunately we know otherwise that with a LCHF diet it is possible to bring down high blood sugars to normal levels within 6-9 months for most type 2 diabetics. You can also accelerate this process using intermittent fasting. With a low carb diet the need for medication decreases and many people with type 2 find they can come off all medication once their sugar levels have dropped to normal levels.

Health professional are well meaning, but I can't help thinking they are partly responsible for the billions spent yearly by the NHS on diabetes care and the millions of lives which are devastated by the severe complications of high blood sugar. There are 4 million diabetes suffers in the UK and perhaps a million more undiagnosed. You can't help thinking that these people are going to suffer terribly from the bad diet advice given by the medical profession. It is up to us to educate them how to tame diabetes to mitigate the ensuing health disaster. I watched the Panorama program on diabetes again last night and it is both scary and depressing.
 
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I am going out on a limb here and postulating my own theory as to why so many nutritionists push the 'Essential Carbs' mantra. I have studied the Krebs / citric cycle that controls how our basic cells function, and the pathways involved. There are two basic pathways, one is for carbs and the other is for fat. Our body has a default mode of operation for each path that it tends to use for everyday activities, but there are crossfeeds that it can use so we can adapt to changing environments and diets,

The carb pathway takes carb and starch and makes glucose. This then gets taken to the muscle tissue where it is either stored for future use, or used as immediate energy. It also feeds the nerves and braincells. This pathway needs insulin to open the gates into the muscle cells, so if insulin is missing or there is IR present then neither storage or energy use can proceed properly. If IR prevents glucose entering the cell, then the body will use any stored glucose instead just like a battery. So losing weight is often a pointer to diagnosis of diabetes. The muscle cells default to glucose as fuel, but they can be forced to use fat as an alternative fuel when glucose levels are low. Nerve cells and braincells cannot use fat, but can use ketones that are a by-product of fat burning as a backup fuel. So when we use low carb diet to drop our bgl to acceptable levels, then we actually force our body into secondary backup mode, which is a protection mechanism normally only triggered by starvation. This is why nutritionists throw up their hands in horror whenever we mention LC diet - We are intentionally starving our bodies by cutting essential carbs, Now said nutritionists struggle with this concept and assume that backup mode is an inferior operating mode, and that we should not be able to fully function without a minimum level of carb intake - the fact that the body successfully adapts to this mode, and is quite happy with low blood sugars is not a concept they can easily take on board - Its dangerous to do that AAAGH.

The fat pathway is equally problematic for them. By default fats get transported around the body in the blood stream - since fat is not blood soluble, it gets packaged into cholesterol packets - more fat in blood the more cholesterol lorries shifting it. But that leads to a high TC value, so that is dangerous !!!!!. Now fat gets transported to the liver and normally misses the muscle cells. In the presence of insulin fat gets stored in the fat cells surrounding the essential organs in the midriff and form a protective layer round these organs. This fat is blubber, and can supply energy for central heating of organs, and as a shock absorber. More fat + insulin creates more fat cells, more blubber. But the body has control mrchanisms in place to dump excess fat without storing it and only increases fat storage when there is extra insulin around with high bgl as well. The other mechanism that comes into play is that these fat stores can be raided when bgl is low to provide fuel for a fat burning session such as will occur when blood glucose drops and exercise depletes the glucose stores. A keto diet mimics this heavy exercise mode, and burns off midriff fat as well, so this is where the 'walkies' part of the Prof comments come into play. However IMO if an HC diet is advocated, then it takes much more exercise to dislodge the stored glucose and thus a strenouous workout is necessary, But keto diet makes the job easier by restricting the glucose pathway in the first place.

Finally we should reach a pont in our keto diet where glucose stores are depleted, the bgl is low, the cholesterol is steady but not necessarily low, and we have reduced the adipose fat stores. This state of equilibrium is the point where the muscle devourering phase is suspected of occurring, Any demands for energy such as sudden exercise will not find any backup stores since these are all depleted, so the body will suffer fuel starvation and start looking for other sources of burnable material. Muscle tissue is one possibility, but not the only one. The body has other crosspathways to use, it can convert dietary protein into glucose, and it can adjust demand by shutting down non essential functions in the same way it can drop body temperature to keep the inner core warm when in a cold environment. It has many such emergency measures it can use before it starts to devour itself, But real starvation could theoretically follow, but is an unlikely scenario. It is not a normal course of action that an LC dieter would use even when intermittent fasting. The simplest way of dealing with this is to increase the fat intake to supply fuel to meet increased demand, (or to increase protein intake but that is not such an efficient process).

I am lucky in that my HCP team are suitably impressed by my med reducing, bgl dropping, weight stabilising LC diet and now fully support my efforts. I was part of the original NHS team that devised DAPHNE and DESMOND as a user representative, but I in my ignorance had to support Eatwell#1 Sorry Guys and Gals, I know better now,
 
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I have studied the Krebs / citric cycle that controls how our basic cells function, and the pathways involved.
Thanks for that, very useful. I have tried to study the Krebs cycle and it isn't easy. My poor old brain can't take it all in.
 
and every one of the group are young and into sport and dieting. Lol. I have reached the age were I can remember how sporty some people used to be. Sadly not all of them are still around. Happily I am not yet of an age were I have to say the same for the people whose main exercise was getting to the pub or restaurant.
Just proves how stress plays a huge part not just diet and exercise!
 
Is OP @Doctorpdb still around? I hope so.

If you still have fat to lose. Carry on.
Reduce insulin appropriately. Don't ignore hypos. Reduce your insulin when close to hypos as it can be worked on.

I hope your well?
 
Thanks for that, very useful. I have tried to study the Krebs cycle and it isn't easy. My poor old brain can't take it all in.
I look on Krebs as describing a network of one way solenoid valves switched by hormones such as insulin and adrenaline that decide whether a muscle cell acts as a rechargeable battery or a blowtorch Give a cell insulin, and it opens the flow of glucose to recharge the battery, give it adrenaline and it closes off that path and opens another so that glucose flows from the battery into the muscle to be used as energy. In another configuration glucose can flow from the battery back out into the blood stream. Note that I use the term glucose loosely since it does get converted into different molecular forms but essentially does the main job. (aka distillation products when crude oil becomes petrol or gas).

There is a similar process going on in parallel where the lipids are broken down into useful molecules and stored / used by a similar switching mechanism, but I forget what the process is called. Krebs is the muscle path, and the endocrine system is the overall system for the lipids path. That is even more complicated compared to Krebs.
 
give it adrenaline and it closes off that path and opens another so that glucose flows from the battery into the muscle to be used as energy.

I have known for some time that my body doesn't work properly, quite severe calorie reduction and (sometimes) excessive exercise have not resulted in the hoped for weight loss. Carb reduction worked a treat but now something else is going on and I've gained weight in the last year although not eating anywhere near my BMR as calculated by Mr Harris and Mr Benedict.

The reason I have picked that particular statement above is that I have been having reflexology for donkeys years and most time when I feel as though somebody is pushing their finger nails into my foot, I'm told "that's your adrenals". Whether I'm not producing enough or what, I have no idea.

I'll get to the bottom of it eventually. But thanks for the explanation, I like things that are easy to understand.
 
I'm having my adrenalin tested via endocrologist. I have twitches. Another lc diabetic friend is having tremors.
What have we done?
 
I have been following a low carb diet, lost a lot of weight, cut down on both oral medicines and dosage of insulin. I was quite happy until I went for my dietetic appointment. There I was advised to up my carbs as the loss in weight was due to loss of fat certainly but also muscle.
I've got a balance just now, when I eat more carbs my blood sugars go up a lot and I need far more insulin. I also don't feel as well. Any advice out there? Should I be a rebel and stick to my diet or give in and up my carb intake? I should mention that my present diabetes doctor, a new person, wanted me to lose weight and try to get my insulin down. What should I do?

Personally I would choose to be guided by the improvements in glucose/medication/insulin levels.

If there is any serious concerns about weightloss resulting in massive muscle loss, then up your resistance exercises...lift some weights etc.
 
I have been following a low carb diet, lost a lot of weight, cut down on both oral medicines and dosage of insulin. I was quite happy until I went for my dietetic appointment. There I was advised to up my carbs as the loss in weight was due to loss of fat certainly but also muscle.
I've got a balance just now, when I eat more carbs my blood sugars go up a lot and I need far more insulin. I also don't feel as well. Any advice out there? Should I be a rebel and stick to my diet or give in and up my carb intake? I should mention that my present diabetes doctor, a new person, wanted me to lose weight and try to get my insulin down. What should I do?
I like you followed a Low Carb High Fat (LCHF) for 6 months lost 42lbs and reduced my BMI by 15% the A1c results fell from 79 to 42 my GP like yours was concerned and wanted my to stop doing whatever it was I was doing and revert to the NHS guidelines of a healthy plate 25% Protein 25% Starch 50% vegetables. I have my A1c results of doing it their way for 6 months - My weight as increased by 20lbs and my A1c is up to 44.

Eating Carbs makes you ill and Sugar in particular is a Toxin your body does its best to get rid of.

I am going back to my LCHF lifestyle keeping to 800 - 1200 Kcal per day with moderate exercise of 30 minutes per day. In 6 months time I will have another A1c result and see the difference. This will be the proof I need that LCHF will be my saviour.

I know what my medical team, health professionals, NICE, NHS and the Government are telling me Carbs is good. If that was the case why over the last 35 years people believing that rhetoric have got bigger and sick, something is wrong.

Follow you gut, when I was on the LCHF lifestyle I had more energy, less skin blemishes, less flatulence and better sleep.

Hope that helps
 
Maybe you are lacking those "essential" Carbs

The thought has crossed my mind but my brain fog started many years ago and I think is statin related, lack of CoQ10 and all that. Seems my body is making copious amounts of glucose anyway, despite low carb.
 
I have been following a low carb diet, lost a lot of weight, cut down on both oral medicines and dosage of insulin. I was quite happy until I went for my dietetic appointment. There I was advised to up my carbs as the loss in weight was due to loss of fat certainly but also muscle.
I've got a balance just now, when I eat more carbs my blood sugars go up a lot and I need far more insulin. I also don't feel as well. Any advice out there? Should I be a rebel and stick to my diet or give in and up my carb intake? I should mention that my present diabetes doctor, a new person, wanted me to lose weight and try to get my insulin down. What should I do?

HI I was worried about all this, especially when I did the low calorie Newcastle diet to reverse my type 2. BUT my research online showed that you can lose a little muscle on a severe calorie restricted diet AT FIRST., but soon the body switches over to lose FAT. ON a ketogenic diet I found nothing about muscle loss. THE ADVICE to eat lots of carbs is BALONEY it is out of date. Study up on how to reverse type 2. good luck
 
I have been following a low carb diet, lost a lot of weight, cut down on both oral medicines and dosage of insulin. I was quite happy until I went for my dietetic appointment. There I was advised to up my carbs as the loss in weight was due to loss of fat certainly but also muscle.
I've got a balance just now, when I eat more carbs my blood sugars go up a lot and I need far more insulin. I also don't feel as well. Any advice out there? Should I be a rebel and stick to my diet or give in and up my carb intake? I should mention that my present diabetes doctor, a new person, wanted me to lose weight and try to get my insulin down. What should I do?
YOUR NEW DR IS RIGHT. The previous one is old news. A stupid dill pickle who hasn't read up on the subject . Check out Prof Roy Taylor reversal of type 2 . He found the answer BACK IN 2008 !!
 
Check out Prof Roy Taylor reversal of type 2 .

Excellent video here http://www.fend-lectures.org/index.php?menu=view&id=94.

I confess to being a bit of a skeptic IN THE PAST although I think I've always covered myself by saying that if you can eat 250 gms carb in a day without your BG going bonkers, then you are truly cured. I found the video very informative with explanations that even I followed. I've kept my calorie intake down to about 1200 cals for some time and carb intake at about 40 gms.

This video has inspired me to go the VLCD route and try the Newcastle diet. I just need to get my GP on board, she's open minded but any pointers would be useful. I'm going for it anyway because after years of low carb, low calorie and low fat I don't feel as though I'm progressing especially with static weight and increasing meds. Watch this space, I wonder if the hotel I'm staying at in May can tolerate somebody who looks like they're starving. LOL
 
YOUR NEW DR IS RIGHT. The previous one is old news. A stupid dill pickle who hasn't read up on the subject . Check out Prof Roy Taylor reversal of type 2 . He found the answer BACK IN 2008 !!
hi again - youtube dr jason fung can explain how low carb and fasting can get your sugars and your insulin needs down, or have a good look at all LCHF videos. Amazing.
 
I am going out on a limb here and postulating my own theory as to why so many nutritionists push the 'Essential Carbs' mantra. I have studied the Krebs / citric cycle that controls how our basic cells function, and the pathways involved. There are two basic pathways, one is for carbs and the other is for fat. Our body has a default mode of operation for each path that it tends to use for everyday activities, but there are crossfeeds that it can use so we can adapt to changing environments and diets,

The carb pathway takes carb and starch and makes glucose. This then gets taken to the muscle tissue where it is either stored for future use, or used as immediate energy. It also feeds the nerves and braincells. This pathway needs insulin to open the gates into the muscle cells, so if insulin is missing or there is IR present then neither storage or energy use can proceed properly. If IR prevents glucose entering the cell, then the body will use any stored glucose instead just like a battery. So losing weight is often a pointer to diagnosis of diabetes. The muscle cells default to glucose as fuel, but they can be forced to use fat as an alternative fuel when glucose levels are low. Nerve cells and braincells cannot use fat, but can use ketones that are a by-product of fat burning as a backup fuel. So when we use low carb diet to drop our bgl to acceptable levels, then we actually force our body into secondary backup mode, which is a protection mechanism normally only triggered by starvation. This is why nutritionists throw up their hands in horror whenever we mention LC diet - We are intentionally starving our bodies by cutting essential carbs, Now said nutritionists struggle with this concept and assume that backup mode is an inferior operating mode, and that we should not be able to fully function without a minimum level of carb intake - the fact that the body successfully adapts to this mode, and is quite happy with low blood sugars is not a concept they can easily take on board - Its dangerous to do that AAAGH.

The fat pathway is equally problematic for them. By default fats get transported around the body in the blood stream - since fat is not blood soluble, it gets packaged into cholesterol packets - more fat in blood the more cholesterol lorries shifting it. But that leads to a high TC value, so that is dangerous !!!!!. Now fat gets transported to the liver and normally misses the muscle cells. In the presence of insulin fat gets stored in the fat cells surrounding the essential organs in the midriff and form a protective layer round these organs. This fat is blubber, and can supply energy for central heating of organs, and as a shock absorber. More fat + insulin creates more fat cells, more blubber. But the body has control mrchanisms in place to dump excess fat without storing it and only increases fat storage when there is extra insulin around with high bgl as well. The other mechanism that comes into play is that these fat stores can be raided when bgl is low to provide fuel for a fat burning session such as will occur when blood glucose drops and exercise depletes the glucose stores. A keto diet mimics this heavy exercise mode, and burns off midriff fat as well, so this is where the 'walkies' part of the Prof comments come into play. However IMO if an HC diet is advocated, then it takes much more exercise to dislodge the stored glucose and thus a strenouous workout is necessary, But keto diet makes the job easier by restricting the glucose pathway in the first place.

Finally we should reach a pont in our keto diet where glucose stores are depleted, the bgl is low, the cholesterol is steady but not necessarily low, and we have reduced the adipose fat stores. This state of equilibrium is the point where the muscle devourering phase is suspected of occurring, Any demands for energy such as sudden exercise will not find any backup stores since these are all depleted, so the body will suffer fuel starvation and start looking for other sources of burnable material. Muscle tissue is one possibility, but not the only one. The body has other crosspathways to use, it can convert dietary protein into glucose, and it can adjust demand by shutting down non essential functions in the same way it can drop body temperature to keep the inner core warm when in a cold environment. It has many such emergency measures it can use before it starts to devour itself, But real starvation could theoretically follow, but is an unlikely scenario. It is not a normal course of action that an LC dieter would use even when intermittent fasting. The simplest way of dealing with this is to increase the fat intake to supply fuel to meet increased demand, (or to increase protein intake but that is not such an efficient process).

I am lucky in that my HCP team are suitably impressed by my med reducing, bgl dropping, weight stabilising LC diet and now fully support my efforts. I was part of the original NHS team that devised DAPHNE and DESMOND as a user representative, but I in my ignorance had to support Eatwell#1 Sorry Guys and Gals, I know better now,
HI OLDVATR - I like your summary above. I got confused about FAT and sought expert advice. I understand it like this now : the dangerous fat around the liver and pancreas is what causes type 2 diabetes, and this fat comes from excess intake of carbs, above normal calorific requirements. The FAT we EAT in normal diet does not do this, it is the excess sugars in the Liver which get transformed and lodged in the Liver as fat. I guess we could talk about 2 kinds of fat. I still do not understand what happens to the excess if we eat too much fat over and above our calorific needs apart from the idea that it is '' not a problem ''and anyway we are unlikely to eat too much fat as it ''satiates '' : you mention it is taken care of but give no details. Can you explain that more please ?
 
low carb will lead to water loss

Very interesting, just another example of my body not conforming to norm, whoever norm is. LOL I get bad fluid retention and I use the colour chart that athletes use to get an idea of how hydrated I am. I wonder how much weight I could lose if I got rid of all the excess. My GP has actually referred to my weight after taking Frusamide as my "dry weight".
 
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