Weird situation, help needed

Michelle Morgan said:

Hello,

I have been diagnosed 3 years ago with type 2, on meds Glucophage RX 500 mg every day one single pill.
This problem I had long time before diabetes. My BS is now 102 and A1C was 6.3.
I had 7.9 in the past and sometimes when I eat sweets (very rare) I reached 230 one day. Usually in the morning BS is 136 before breakfast. During the day, especially after a good lunch I have everry day the BS gets down to 110 and it keeps thsi values until dinner. I eat about 6 meals a day, 3 meals and 3 snacks in fact.
I used to eat a lot of sweets even with diabetes but on meds, until a few months ago when I took out all the sugar.
I still eat bread, it gives me energy.
Now, the Problem is the following: when BS is down to 110 or less I feel AWFUL. I shake, I have a terrible headache, weak legs, powerless and brain fog, lack of concentration. I eat some carbs and I reborn. Like a machine without gas.
I am at the 5th diabetes doctor who do not know what to do with me and keep on saying different things like eat 5 meals a day. I eat 6. I complain that I feel awful and they do not say anything because I guess they do not know what to say about this situation.
A few days ago I agreed with the actual doctor to take out the Glucophage for a month and see how it is. I feel great but the problem is the same, even worse. This morning my BS was 157 - now, 4 hours after lunch is 112 and I am shaking. What should I think about all these? I am not able to loose weight because of this awful situation because when BS is low I eat carbs to regain energy. I tried EVERY other food, does not work. Is like eating nothing. I went to nutritionist, no results.
Nobody knows what to do with me, not even myself. Why is this happening to me? What can I do to lose weight and feel energetic not a veggie? A few years ago an apple and some seeds were good to increase BS level, now they are not, is like eating nothing.
I eat a lot of bread.
I hope you understand me, I saw there were doctors who did not but I hope someone was in my situation and found a solution.
THANKS a lot.

Click to expand...

I'm not 100% comfortable with the measurements you use, so I'm hoping I converted them right to something I do have a bit of a grasp of.

I'm not a doctor, I can't diagnose. But I do think I have an inkling of what's going on here. It sounds like you're very used to running high. The moment your blood sugars drop to what would be the high end of normal, or an acceptable level, you experience something called a false hypo. It feels like a real one, your body is convinced it is a real one, but only the numbers don't back it up. And every time you fix that feeling by having more carbs, you keep that vicious cycle going. Carbs are addictive. Have some, and your body'll demand more. Hence your feeling like you haven't eaten anything if it's not carby. And eating six times a day? That makes it that much worse. You keep having spikes all day long, and your pancreas never ever gets a break. Believe me, it's a mistake I made when I first started out too. (Ate every 3 hours, on the hour. It drove me nuts and didn't help at all.)

So here's what you can do, now that the glucophage is out of the picture for a bit and you don't have to eat to take it. It will be hard, if you want to try it, but after a few weeks you'll likely feel better. (And if you want a doctor's opinion on this, read Dr. Jason Fung. Very, very helpful!). Cut the carbs. Seriously. No more bread. Your body depends on carbs to get energy, and it has to learn to get energy elsewhere: mainly fats, and protein. It takes a little while for your body to shift gears, and with that will come more false hypo's. Which, it would be best, if you just ride those out with some cheese or something else fatty and protein rich, like an egg. Not something like fruit or bread or whatever... And try to cut back the meals. Skip the snacks, and stick with two to three proper, FILLING meals a day. Your body'll have to re-learn how to metabolise food, and to stop craving carbs. And it'll make you ill for a week or two, probably. (Most of that'd be easily solved with an electrolyte supplement as your body finds a new balance). And after that, you could well feel like a new person.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ <-- have a read. Eating a low carb/high fat diet should sort out your spikes and your constant need to eat/abate hunger, and should help you lose weight as well. It worked for me. I was as broad as I was tall, and my muscles were wasting away to a point where I couldn't cut my own meat anymore, my husband had to help me. Now I walk so much I keep having to get new shoes. While back when I got diagnosed, my knees used to give way. (Hard landings, that!). So I'm not saying it'll be a breeze to do... But it is worth it to give it a go.

Good luck, whatever you do!
Jo

I agree about the false hypos. I had these when I first went low carb but testing showed I'd just dropped from high into the normal range - they reduced as I persevered and stopped after a month.
If you go from lots of carbs to very low carb suddenly you may feel tired for a while until your body adjusts (see 'keto flu'), I mostly avoided this by dropping to 100gm a day at first then down to 85gm, etc.

Yoyoing in and out of low carb means your body never has a chance to adjust to normal blood sugar.

Once my blood sugar stabilised in the normal range I felt much better.

Hi, and welcome.
I want to explain what is happening to you.
The first meal of the day is probably cereal and or toast. With a milky coffee.
That meal is carb laden and too much for a T2 diabetic. Because of insulin resistance and too much insulin circulating that is no good for you, you get a spike of blood sugar levels, always depending on the portion size or the amount of carbs in that meal. From that first bite you will repeatedly have a spike, then a blood sugar drop similar to a sugar crash. If you eat six meals with snacks every day the imbalance in your hormonal response to food is out of balance and could be the reason for all the awful symptoms you are experiencing. So from morning to night and into your sleep, your blood sugar levels are too high, and unless you stop the amount of carbs and sugars, you will continue to get the symptoms. Your metabolism cannot tolerate the amount of glucose derived from your meals.
How do I know?
I was ill, and I mean poorly and my GP couldn't understand why as a T2, despite being on a NHS recommendation for dietary intake was actually making it worse. I am carb intolerant, as soon as I stopped eating the the intolerant foods, my brain fog lifted and the symptoms went. I started to feel a lot like my old self and more importantly my health improved dramatically. Only one person actually had a clue and he started the tests to get a true diagnosis, that was my specialist endocrinologist, he saved my life and actually recommended this site. I was constantly backwards and forwards to my surgery, but it wasn't until I got a referral to my endo did I discover that, I had a rare metabolic condition, due to food.
I have experienced everything you are going through and believe me I definitely don't want to go back to the rollercoaster ride of high and low blood sugar levels all day and every day.

I have been told by quite a few doctors that my condition is weird, this was confirmed by my endocrinologist! I am a card carrying weirdo!

Keep safe, keep asking.

Your avatar is showing Insulin Dependant T2, which I suspect is incorrect. BUT it is IMO linked to your problem.

My theory is as follows:
You have too much insulin in your bloodstream. Your body is awash with insulin. Every time you eat carbs, you pump it up a bit more. This has the effect of forcing more insulin into your cells, so you feel like you have energy back again, but as it subsides your sugar levels drop, and your insulin resistance stops your body from using the glucose anymore. so your energy drops and your nerves and muscles suffer glucose starvation.

When I was diagnosed I researched the Citric Cycle (it used to be called the Krebs cycle) and this describes how insulin and adrenaline are the keys to unlocking the pathways for glucose to be either stored or used by your muscles. High insulin levels will block that doorway. This is why some T2D often need to inject insulin, It overpowers Insulin Resistance, and acts like a sledgehammer to force-feed your cells. Your constant snacking on high-carb foods is acting as an insulin dose but is doing it by thrashing your pancreas and liver to flood your blood with your own self-made insulin. Your pancreas is being stressed and that is very bad news.

If you can persevere with the carb-cutting and drop all that snacking as has been suggested on here, then in a while things should settle down, and your insulin resistance will reduce, and you will find you regain control over your sugar levels. At the moment you are bouncing between two extremes.

I think what you are describing are a form of metabolic disorder.
Something that triggers the need for food every three or four hours and during the night because you are asleep or not wanting food. Your body and brain are telling you to eat, because of the quick drops in blood sugar levels. You will never find an answer or diagnosis if you keep eating carbs on the scale you are.
From my experience, there are many different Hypoglycaemic conditions, this actually means that you are probably producing too much of one hormonal response to the meal. That is why you are ok with regular food every couple of hours. When diagnosed I had hyperinsulinaemia, too much insulin and that caused the hypos.
I have been on a diet recommended by eating every three hours, this was supposed to stop having hypos because I produce too much insulin. So it seemed logical to eat regularly. However because I went into hospital on a fasting test and found after the first day, it went brilliant, from that, I stopped eating carbs because it was the carbs that was making me ill. I started intermittent fasting and only eat once or twice daily, in the late afternoon or evening. This is what is keeping me healthy.
I found out which food I could not tolerate by using a glucometer and keeping a food diary and studied the readings. By doing this and avoiding carbs, the trigger for the high sugar, and subsequent lows became the logical choice I made.
I am so glad I did!
You have to find out the cause of the symptoms. Either find a specialist who knows why this is happening or find a way to control your symptoms. Or stop the triggers.

If you do have an Hba1c tests that tread normal (ish). Do have a look at the reactive hypoglycaemia forum and see similar rings a bell.

Felt pretty lousy when I first cut carbs, one reason is I lost a lot of water, depleted my electrolytes. Also I was not used to walking around in the 80s 90s. I was not fat adapted. I just had to push through until my body started to adapt. Since I felt like ****, I decided I might as well throw in some exercise. Literally falling forward on the treadmill for hours. Eventually I adapted, I’m now a dual fuel machine.

some things that helped me were, electrolytes by the gallon, pure MCT oil for when I needed a shot of energy. Peanut butter for when I had to have a snack.

full disclosure, I don’t know much about hypos, I did pull a 62, last week, but I’ve been pushing pretty hard lately. I’m not on any medication

Michelle Morgan said:

Yes, great idea. Will do this. Thank you so so much for your help. Doctors tested my insulin 2 times in the last 3 months. It was normal, 13.
But you do not tell me if you felt like me when you cut carbs. I will try eating less meals a day but what can I do if I feel bad please? This is my problem. I am happy to try everything but I have to live somehow and I do not know how. It is obvious that you did not feel bad eating less and cutting carbs otherwise you will change this, didn't you? Thanks so much. Hugs. I hope I will find my way.

Click to expand...

The light bulb moment for me was the fasting test in hospital. Doing a lot of tests to find what was happening to me. This fasting test was supervised in hospital and because like you I was determined to find out what was happening. So on the first day after starting to fast the night before, I was experiencing a change in symptoms, mainly because the only time I fasted was for tests. Don't forget I had absolutely no idea what it was and continually told that I was diabetic.
I kept myself busy and got through this first day, and some of the symptoms had eased. I awoke the next morning and the sister on the ward after my first glucose test reading, asked why I was there because all my previous days readings were in normal levels, I was encouraged to keep a .modicum of exercise, so I walked instead of food.
After the first couple of hours on the second day, I realised that because I hadn't anything to eat, and the endo, had told me that I was no longer having hypos and explained to me in detail what he believed it was. I went for another walk and realised that it was food was the culprit. My endo referred to all the tests, every test was designed to eliminate other conditions rather than proving that it was, because people get Hypoglycaemia for all kinds of reasons, pancreatic conditions are known to have similar symptoms. The light bulb moment was now the realisation that not eating was improving my health, my energy levels soared the longer I fasted, I asked my endo why this euphoria I was feeling, when you should get better energy levels after food.
He told me I was fat adapted and I was getting the energy from being in ketosis rather than relying on carbs for my energy.
So suddenly within a couple days that my body had adapted to very low carb (fasting) and had to get the energy I needed from elsewhere.
At the end of the test, I had no symptoms and my brain function cleared and because my pancreas was not producing the insulin required for carbs, my excess insulin, became the usual normal levels and everything improved. I had a little carb flu, but not like you.
I must say that during my testing of food during the early months after diagnosis, I did have symptoms again, but because my hypo awareness was really good, I knew that having a few carbs, just enough to nudge me back into normal levels range.
I call my diet, the idiot diet. Why because even an idiot could understand what I am dieting for. Simply, avoiding foods that trigger all the symptoms and of course all the chemistry going on within me during digestion. I found out that if I don't eat carbs, I don't 'react'. But if I do, I will be ill! That is it.
I say that I have found a very good balance, in what I put in my mouth. Temptation will always be there, but given a choice of feeling awful and feeling great, I have the mindset that it's Hobson choice. I am an idiot, so it works for me. I am in my doctors view, weird!
The best moment after diagnosis was being told that I was non diabetic.
The worst was last summer when my whole world went to pieces and I because of a lot of reasons, had a breakdown and my control of having no hypos for years, went in the bin. I was beyond trying to be dietary controlled. So, the symptoms started again.
I realised quickly enough not to harm my health and my resolution and response thanks to my GP, came back, my family and friends could see that I was struggling with my thought process and made sure that after falling from the wagon, I got up brushed myself down and got back on.
What to do when feeling like you have to eat? well eat!, but it really does matter what you actually eat and the portion size. If I knew and my hypo awareness was telling me to do something, then I would have something that is very low carb, just enough to stop the hypo and nudge my blood sugar levels into normal. Then after fifteen minutes, go for a walk for fifteen minutes and retest, to see if need to take further steps. Walking is great for me, because it is enough for an old codger like me, and I don't get an glucose boost from my liver, if I need energy. I stay in Keto and my blood sugar levels are in normal levels, just where my brain and body want it to be.

Sorry about the long post.

Keep asking, keep safe.