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What are the long term effects of taking medicine for diabetes 2 ?

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Diabetesdave1

Active Member
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I have been diagnosed with diabetes 2 and I am at the moment trying to control naturally by diet .
A person I know has I had it ten years and eats what they like and just take medicine what are the disadvantages to this
 
A possible disadvantage to relying on medication in order to eat 'whatever you like' and by this I'm sure you mean a normal, high carb, western diet is that that you would gradually need stronger and stronger treatment until only insulin would bring the readings down. This is because eating that normal western diet with it's highly refined carbs will drive insulin resistance. This may also heighten the risk of complications caused by chronically high blood glucose levels.
 
Basically, there are 2 parts to the T2D issue
1) Chronically high insulin levels
2) Chronically high fasting glucose, and post meal glucose spikes.

Long term medication may help to manage glucose level and blunt the spikes a little, but they hardly ever normalize it. Timing medication to match the glucose level per meal is near impossible because of the myriads of factors affecting glucose, although easier with low carb. Hence the "targets" are always much higher than normal metabolically healthy individuals.

So over the years, with no dietary/lifestyle changes, we will experience the long term effects
1) Insulin toxicity
2) Glucose toxicity
3) Side effects of medication.

That is why T2D is almost universally chronic and progressive.
 
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Diabetesdave1 said:
I have been diagnosed with diabetes 2 and I am at the moment trying to control naturally by diet .
A person I know has I had it ten years and eats what they like and just take medicine what are the disadvantages to this
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Only that person can tell you how it affects him/her. We are all different. Some claim that prevention is better than cure but some people have other medical conditions which for e.g need Oats in their diet but oats a make SOME diabetics spike their bgs levels. You have to find what works best for......you.

Ps. Taking longterm Metformin allowed me the opportunity to ovulate and have 2 live births (both boys).
Without those meds I would still be childless and very very unhappy. So may have had a shorter and unhealthier life. Maybe.
 
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I am on holiday in Vietnam at the moment and I have to experiment and see what works over here a lot of the time they do not know what I am talking about which makes it difficult
 
Diabetesdave1 said:
I am on holiday in Vietnam at the moment and I have to experiment and see what works over here a lot of the time they do not know what I am talking about which makes it difficult
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Hugely difficult. You need an endocrologist to be of similiar knowledge to your needs.
 
kokhongw said:
Basically, there are 2 parts to the T2D issue
1) Chronically high insulin levels
2) Chronically high fasting glucose, and post meal glucose spikes.

Long term medication may help to manage glucose level and blunt the spikes a little, but they hardly ever normalize it. Timing medication to match the glucose level per meal is near impossible because of the myriads of factors affecting glucose, although easier with low carb. Hence the "targets" are always much higher than normal metabolically healthy individuals.

So over the years, with no dietary/lifestyle changes, we will experience the long term effects
1) Insulin toxicity
2) Glucose toxicity
3) Side effects of medication.

That is why T2D is almost universally chronic and progressive.
Click to expand...

Oh! and a long lingering death with the odd leg chopped off for good measure. (I wish I was joking)
 
Worth pointing out that not everyone on meds inhale carbs by the shed load. There are some who even with very low carb still have to take some form of medication - there is no shame in needing help from medication if you are doing everything possible in your lifestyle and still not getting good numbers.
 
lovinglife said:
Worth pointing out that not everyone on meds inhale carbs by the shed load. There are some who even with very low carb still have to take some form of medication - there is no shame in needing help from medication if you are doing everything possible in your lifestyle and still not getting good numbers.
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Not at all, but I think the comparison being made in this post was just meds and no lifestyle changes made or even attempted verses making those changes, (hopefully without meds but almost certainly with less of them)
 
If your insulin pathway is broken then dieting is in vain. This includes fatty liver prohibiting weight loss too.
Putting those in order makes ALL the difference.

Shame no one until recently had enlightened me. Decades of emotional floggings causes doubt as to whether I could lose weight.
Very low calorie with low carbs jumps my body into behaving itself.
Many others have been scarred same way too.

Knowledge is power!
 
@ickihun Sorry to bother you, but can I clarify something - by "very low calorie with low carbs" do you mean you need to do both together to manage your blood glucose?

I've only been diagnosed since early April, and my GP has given me until July to try and manage with just diet and exercise before moving on to medication. So far I can only seem to keep my glucose range in the 4's and 5's if I'm both very strict with carbs AND eat as little as possible, as infrequently as possible. I'm currently on one meal a day coming in under 900 calories, and even then my fasting blood glucose the next morning has started creeping back up into the 6's. I got an 8.8 yesterday morning out of nowhere.

I'm still struggling a lot with fatigue - I'd sleep all day if I could - and I don't know whether it's because I'm not eating enough or because my blood glucose levels are still averaging too high.
 
Adm_Mad said:
@ickihun Sorry to bother you, but can I clarify something - by "very low calorie with low carbs" do you mean you need to do both together to manage your blood glucose?

I've only been diagnosed since early April, and my GP has given me until July to try and manage with just diet and exercise before moving on to medication. So far I can only seem to keep my glucose range in the 4's and 5's if I'm both very strict with carbs AND eat as little as possible, as infrequently as possible. I'm currently on one meal a day coming in under 900 calories, and even then my fasting blood glucose the next morning has started creeping back up into the 6's. I got an 8.8 yesterday morning out of nowhere.

I'm still struggling a lot with fatigue - I'd sleep all day if I could - and I don't know whether it's because I'm not eating enough or because my blood glucose levels are still averaging too high.
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What is your averaging BG numbers?

For me. I'm morbidly obese and awaiting bariatric surgery to lose weight so I need less insulin injected and less meds for other health problems e.g sugar filled IBS tablets. Maybe less high blood pressure and meds. Ultimately less weight bearing on my spine and pelvis so I can walk more then jog. Less insulin units increased = less fat making cells filled or created.

Low carb for diabetes and low calories for weight loss.
 
Diabetesdave1 said:
I thought there must be some kind of trade off ,thanks for the answer I know which way I am going or at least try.
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That makes sense given that all diabetes medications have to do to gain a license is demonstrate a reduction in blood glucose. Reducing blood glucose with meds treats your symptom but not the underlying insulin resistance. This is why in many studies, people treated intensively with meds still got diabetic complications. The newer drugs (sgltt2 inhibitors) which cause you to pee out the glucose, are reckoned to have better outcomes for complications and allow more weight loss, but as with all meds they have undesirable side effects.
Ultimately it is a choice but I feel that many people don't get to understand the alternative choice to meds i.e. lchf diets. Jason Fung's book The Diabetes Code (his bias is towards low carb or fasting) discusses the various meds and how they work (or don't in some cases). Good luck with keeping the type 2 at bay!
 
Adm_Mad said:
@ickihun Sorry to bother you, but can I clarify something - by "very low calorie with low carbs" do you mean you need to do both together to manage your blood glucose?

I've only been diagnosed since early April, and my GP has given me until July to try and manage with just diet and exercise before moving on to medication. So far I can only seem to keep my glucose range in the 4's and 5's if I'm both very strict with carbs AND eat as little as possible, as infrequently as possible. I'm currently on one meal a day coming in under 900 calories, and even then my fasting blood glucose the next morning has started creeping back up into the 6's. I got an 8.8 yesterday morning out of nowhere.

I'm still struggling a lot with fatigue - I'd sleep all day if I could - and I don't know whether it's because I'm not eating enough or because my blood glucose levels are still averaging too high.
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It sounds like you are not eating enough and not getting enough fuel to avoid tiredness, maybe the stress of not seeing faster results is also having negative effects on readings too. Extended time with very low calories can slow metabolism thus being counterproductive. I’d really think hard about adding some fats into the meal or having a second zero carb meal. This won’t mess you blood sugar up but will give you more energy. Your bmi as I recall really wasn’t too bad and should come into line given a little time.

It takes time for morning readings to come down, months or maybe even a year or two to get that first one where you want it. It’s the last one to come into line. Have you read about dawn phenomenon or feet on the floor phenomenon? Lack of sleep, infection brewing or being fought off (even successfully with few symptoms) and stress can all mess with numbers not just food. If you’re regularly in the 4’s and 5’ during the day I’d say you’re doing well. And at review you, not you dr, decide what happens next after listening to her advice and views. No one can force anything on you that you don’t want.

I’m sure ickihun would agree she has had a health journey quite individual and hasn’t responded typically to low carb the way many on here have and her circumstances don’t appear to be the same as yours. Unless you have cause to think it’s really not working for you (you’ve not said anything that makes me think that!) give it a chance without restricting calories so much and possibly therefore making yourself feel worse.
 
Hi All,

Getting back to @Diabetesdave1 's original question about
Diabetesdave1 said:
I have been diagnosed with diabetes 2 and I am at the moment trying to control naturally by diet .
A person I know has I had it ten years and eats what they like and just take medicine what are the disadvantages to this
Click to expand...

From what I can see, each medication has a different set of pros and cons, and then each person may or may not get those pros or cons in varying degrees.
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/type-2-diabetes.html

For instance, Metformin is usually the first medication that doctors prescribe for type 2 diabetes. It comes in slow and fast release versions, which people tolerate to different degrees. The majority have little or no contraindications, while others have reactions from constipation to diarrhoea, and other symptoms. Some very unpleasant. The action of Metformin is better researched than many drugs used for type 2 diabetics, including claims for improved HbA1cs, reduced glycogen production, better long term heart health, potentially better longevity, assorted side effects and interactions with other medications. It is also one of the cheapest drugs, and is suggested as the first choice in drug therapy for T2s.

If Metformin proves inadequate to control blood glucose, or the contraindications are too severe, then the doc will try another drug. If more than one drug is used together, then they need to be assessed for interactions.

There are many different drugs and combinations that are used to treat type 2 diabetes, and there is nothing to say that your friends' combination of drug treatments would be appropriate for you.
https://www.guidelinesinpractice.co.uk/diabetes/top-tips-type-2-diabetes/453252.article

If you want to research the different drug prescription criteria, this link may be helpful to you.
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng...in-adults-with-type-2-diabetes-pdf-2185604173
And if you want to read up on what each of the drugs do, both good and bad, then the www.bloodsugar101.com website has some excellent information on the studies, the pros and the cons of many of them.

The reality is simply that everyone is different, and while many of us can get control of our type 2 with diet and lifestyle, and hopefully prevent progression of the condition, some of us can't - through our unique combination of circumstances. There are many reasons why someone may need medication, from personal health history, other physical and psychological needs, the extent their body is able to control blood glucose with the remaining pancreatic function (beta cell function) that they have.

So really, we shouldn't ever be comparing ourselves with anyone else, either in blood glucose readings, or diet and lifestyle decisions. All we can do is do the best we can, in our own personal circumstances, whether that involves mediation or not..

Hope that helps.
 
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