"What have you eaten" Parallel Chat

A Japanese care package given to individual people with covid and in quarantin.

It contained the following items.

Ramen
Coffee
Vegetable juice
Jello with fruit in it
Snacks
Dehydrated seaweed salad + dressing
Spaghetti
Packets of meat sauce
Packets of carbonara sauce
Congee
Cooked rice
Cookies
Caramel popcorn snacks
Sports drinks
Mixed bean packets
Mackerel packets
Sardine packets
Japanese curry
Some precooked meals to put on rice
Canned fruit
Canned tuna
Water

Antje77 said:

Thanks for your long answer, @Annb .
I'm puzzled by the instruction to not go higher than 52 units, it just doesn't make sense, especially in light of your mealtime doses.
I'll do a longer reply tomorrow, I'm pretty sure your management can still be improved a lot.

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I believe it probably can. The route to better management is the puzzle. I am thinking about gradually edging the basal dose up and see what happens. It's actually not easy to get any guidance from the medics these days. Also, with no face to face consultations, it's difficult to get results of blood tests. I know that the nurses probably have access to the results of my recent blood tests, but they won't give any information to me. I will be trying tomorrow to get something from my GP - I need to find out anyway, what is happening about the surgery I was to have had this week.

@Antje77 @shelley262 @Speedbird thought I’d reply to @Antje77 ’s question and @shelley262 ’s vitamin d related questions here.

@Antje77 said ‘All this talk of vitamin D and K has me somewhat confused. (Likely because I've never really looked into it, it's not a subject which has my natural interest, much like lipids.)
I used to have a vitamin D deficiency, got prescribed supplements, don't have a deficiency anymore. So why would it need something else if supplementing the D works?’

Here’s a brief overview from the FB group I’m in, which reflects my understanding:

‘When we take Vit D3 we absorb more calcium from our foods.

A general western diet, means a lot of calcium goes into soft tissues - arteries, heart, thyroid, brain and creates stones (kidney, bladder etc).

Vitamin K2 is primarily used in other tissues to ensure that calcium is deposited where it should be, such as bone and cartilage, and to prevent calcium from accumulating where it shouldn’t, like blood vessels and kidneys.

So if we take D3, we need K2 - the K2 sends to calcium to the bones.

The magnesium sets it there.

It is very difficult to get enough K2 in the diet. Sources of K2
Natto, fermented soy. (But not good for the thyroid)
Goose liver - not good for the goose. Poor goosey is force fed to make his liver big
Cheese but from grass fed animals. Esp gouda
Egg yolks.
Dark chicken meat - grass fed chicken
Butter - grass fed cows.
This article explains things well https://kresserinstitute.com/vitamin-k2-consuming-enough/ ‘

@shelley262 said ‘@Speedbird thanks for that recommend - that company looks interesting plus they sell a magnesium type I’ve never tried - thought I’d had most but not threonate that they sell - plus you can get a sample pack fairly cheaply @Goonergal have you ever tried that one?’

Yes I’ve tried magnesium threonate. Didn’t do anything for me. As I understand it, it’s also one of the more bio-available forms, but often the amounts of elemental magnesium in threonate supplements are low, which makes them expensive if you want to get enough of it.

Goonergal said:

@Antje77 @shelley262 @Speedbird thought I’d reply to @Antje77 ’s question and @shelley262 ’s vitamin d related questions here.

@Antje77 said ‘All this talk of vitamin D and K has me somewhat confused. (Likely because I've never really looked into it, it's not a subject which has my natural interest, much like lipids.)
I used to have a vitamin D deficiency, got prescribed supplements, don't have a deficiency anymore. So why would it need something else if supplementing the D works?’

Here’s a brief overview from the FB group I’m in, which reflects my understanding:

‘When we take Vit D3 we absorb more calcium from our foods.

A general western diet, means a lot of calcium goes into soft tissues - arteries, heart, thyroid, brain and creates stones (kidney, bladder etc).

Vitamin K2 is primarily used in other tissues to ensure that calcium is deposited where it should be, such as bone and cartilage, and to prevent calcium from accumulating where it shouldn’t, like blood vessels and kidneys.

So if we take D3, we need K2 - the K2 sends to calcium to the bones.

The magnesium sets it there.

It is very difficult to get enough K2 in the diet. Sources of K2
Natto, fermented soy. (But not good for the thyroid)
Goose liver - not good for the goose. Poor goosey is force fed to make his liver big
Cheese but from grass fed animals. Esp gouda
Egg yolks.
Dark chicken meat - grass fed chicken
Butter - grass fed cows.
This article explains things well https://kresserinstitute.com/vitamin-k2-consuming-enough/ ‘

@shelley262 said ‘@Speedbird thanks for that recommend - that company looks interesting plus they sell a magnesium type I’ve never tried - thought I’d had most but not threonate that they sell - plus you can get a sample pack fairly cheaply @Goonergal have you ever tried that one?’

Yes I’ve tried magnesium threonate. Didn’t do anything for me. As I understand it, it’s also one of the more bio-available forms, but often the amounts of elemental magnesium in threonate supplements are low, which makes them expensive if you want to get enough of it.

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Brilliant explanation @Goonergal also pleased you’d tried the threonate and could give a review. It does seem to be finding the right magnesium for you and then getting dosage right. I’m wading through lots of stuff on different gut bacteria to work out best for me and experimenting- you clearly have to do this with magnesium too.
@RosemaryJackson im tagging you to this too as think @Goonergal s explanation of the D3 K2 and Magnesium and link with Calcium etc above would be of interest to you?

I've put the basal dose up by 2u to 54 this morning. I'll see how it goes but with the level of BG I have another 2u isn't going to put me into any danger area.

BG a 5 am was 15 so I took a dose of Humalog which brought it down to 8.9 by 9 am, when I took the Tresiba.

While I was asleep in the chair, Neil very kindly made a wholemeal loaf for me, knowing that there was no bread left in the house and he wasn't going shopping. Carbs per slice not known, of course, but I will be very careful and have only half a slice and check with the meter.

Had 1/2 slice of Neil's bread with some Dairylea for breakfast. That was after 54u Tresiba and 60u Humalog. Glad to say BG just now is 6.4. And it looks as though that is on the way up from something like 5. Interesting.

Oops! 3.9. I'd better have some lunch.

Annb said:

Oops! 3.9. I'd better have some lunch.

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The half slice of his bread must have been fewer carbs than your usual breakfast.
I agree with you that upping your Tresiba by two units at a time won't put you in the danger zone.

To my thinking, the final goal is to have your basal at a dose which keeps you more or less level in a safe zone (not too close to hypo levels but not in double digits all the time either).
But should you start working towards this, your bolus dose will need to be regularly adjusted as well.
It's not like you need much more insulin than you take now, it's just that the ratio between basal and bolus likely isn't right. So your bolus now does part of the work your basal should be doing.
When the basal gets closer to the dose you need, your current 60 units per meal will be too much.

We can't compare insulin needs as we are all different, but I think we're not so far apart in the amount of insulin we need. This is one of the reasons I was so surprised by the low dose of basal you take compared to your bolus.
I take between 100 and 120 units of Tresiba, and over the day somewhere between 20 and 60 units of bolus total. I suppose I eat a little less carbs than you do, but it doesn't seem that big of a difference.
But the ratio of my bolus to basal insulin is almost the other way around from yours!

As a rule of thumb or a starting point, often a 50:50 ratio is mentioned (on a 'standard' diet).
It makes sense that on a lower carb diet the part basal will be higher than the part bolus, because you need to bolus less for a low carb meal than for a high carb meal, but it doesn't directly affect your basal needs.

I had lunch of 2 small patties of the frozen potato bubble and squeak. Also, did take insulin, but because the starting point was so low, I just took half my usual amount and will watch, with interest, what will happen now. But I do think you're right Antje, that whatever the medics here say, I need to get the basal and bolus in better balance.

Not sure how Neil's making lower carb bread than the shop-bought stuff. The shop-bought is thinner cut, as well, whereas Neil's has to be hand-cut so is not so thin.

In the freezer, I found some odd looking patties, or burgers and I can't identify them, other than the fact that there are bits of spring onion and tomato embedded in them. They smell vaguely mackerel-ish but they are quite crisp on the outside, as though already cooked, but they certainly don't look cooked. Might take my life in my hands and see if they would do for a meal this evening.

Oops again! Down to 3.8. I'll see if it drops further and be ready to eat something if it does. There are still some of the Bubble & Squeak patties left.

@MrsA2 replying here so don’t derail thread see link for clove tea recipe lots of cloves and a 10min simmer plus the green tea and the prebiotic fibre
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/page-2422
Scroll down page for relevant post it’s my second one on that page
dr Davis says in the new Supergut book that the oil from the cloves is what helps hence the simmering for 10mins he doesn’t recommend ground cloves. The clove oil combined with The prebiotic in inulin and the green tea are purported to help the mucus lining of the whole digestive tract to make it non leaky so good to prevent or repair inflammation in any part of the gut.
You need to sip the simmered clove version though it’s very strong!

shelley262 said:

@MrsA2 replying here so don’t derail thread see link for clove tea recipe lots of cloves and a 10min simmer plus the green tea and the prebiotic fibre
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/page-2422
Scroll down page for relevant post it’s my second one on that page
dr Davis says in the new Supergut book that the oil from the cloves is what helps hence the simmering for 10mins he doesn’t recommend ground cloves. The clove oil combined with The prebiotic in inulin and the green tea are purported to help the mucus lining of the whole digestive tract to make it non leaky so good to prevent or repair inflammation in any part of the gut.
You need to sip the simmered clove version though it’s very strong!

Click to expand...

Thanks for that @shelley262 I'm a bit wary of inulin. Anytime I've had it ( in protein or nut bars for example) it seems to go right though me, or spark hunger pangs. I do like the taste of cloves. I think one can buy Clove oil... or is that what I used to rub into horses hooves when I worked in a stable...rushes off to google

It can sometime be an ingredient in hoof oil ... where did I dredge that bit of memory up from, its over 40 years since I last had anything to do with horses?

I will continue to have a few cloves in my tea sometimes

Oil of cloves is good for tooth ache as well, it's pulled me through the night waiting for the dentist to open in the morning on a couple of occasions..

BG on the high side today (peaked at 18.8) so it looks as though I might be having a "high" day. That might be because I had another bad night - another suffocating dream. Actually managed to pull out of it before it got too bad, but it still unsettled me sufficiently to need to get up. Although the suffocating aspects weren't as bad as they have been, the actual menace in the dream was what disturbed me. I didn't get to bed until about 1.45 am and woke again at about 3.45. I did sleep though, in the kitchen chair - after I watched "Animal Cops" on TV - at about 5 am and slept until 8 am. So 5 hours altogether. Not too bad.

Em has just gone home with her dad. The plan was that this afternoon we would make liquorice cup cakes to use up the last of some liquorice left over after Christmas (people always eat the allsorts with fondant layers and leave the plain liquorice). So I ground down some of the sweets with flour to use for the cakes but Em just wasn't in the mood to do any baking so I ended up doing it. She did join in when it came to quality control though and was very satisfied with the end result. I'd put some icing on top (white icing because I'd used black food colour in the batter) and some other chopped up bits of liquorice so they weren't set in time. She'll come and pick them up tomorrow. Quite like the idea myself but shan't give in to the temptation of trying one.

MrsA2 said:

Thanks for that @shelley262 I'm a bit wary of inulin. Anytime I've had it ( in protein or nut bars for example) it seems to go right though me, or spark hunger pangs. I do like the taste of cloves. I think one can buy Clove oil... or is that what I used to rub into horses hooves when I worked in a stable...rushes off to google

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I’m sure another insoluble fibre would work too for the tea such as erythritol if you tolerate it and would add a little sweetness? Clove oil sounds interesting I think he uses it in another recipe will check.
I’ve just got a too long a to do list but would love to spend lots more time on my interests and researching more!Talking of which my new hobby yoghurt making and fermentation began today. Im making a yoghurt with a specific bacteria culture which needs to be done at a consistent low temperature- ive bought a cheap natty yoghurt and soft cheese maker - progress make - its only 19.99 on Amazon but has variable temps whereas a lot even expensive ones don’t. Thought about using my Instant Pot as recommended by @DJC3 but Dr Davis warned against this as temps can be accidentally too high and can kill some of the over sensitive bacteria and as these particular bacteria are the ones that are now missing from many modern guts -after not surviving anti biotics, sugary diets and over grow of bad bacteria you need to nurture them carefully- I’ll let you know 36 hours from now fermented at 38 degrees.
Vegetable fermentation due to start on Thursday if all Goes well. Mind you the veg need 4 weeks to ferment so will be buying commercial ones a bit longer!

From our local butchers facebook page.

I quail at the though of a whole duck on the plate at one time.



Nice roast loin of pork.



Nice fat bit of rump steak.

shelley262 said:

I’m sure another insoluble fibre would work too for the tea such as erythritol if you tolerate it and would add a little sweetness? Clove oil sounds interesting I think he uses it in another recipe will check.
I’ve just got a too long a to do list but would love to spend lots more time on my interests and researching more!Talking of which my new hobby yoghurt making and fermentation began today. Im making a yoghurt with a specific bacteria culture which needs to be done at a consistent low temperature- ive bought a cheap natty yoghurt and soft cheese maker - progress make - its only 19.99 on Amazon but has variable temps whereas a lot even expensive ones don’t. Thought about using my Instant Pot as recommended by @DJC3 but Dr Davis warned against this as temps can be accidentally too high and can kill some of the over sensitive bacteria and as these particular bacteria are the ones that are now missing from many modern guts -after not surviving anti biotics, sugary diets and over grow of bad bacteria you need to nurture them carefully- I’ll let you know 36 hours from now fermented at 38 degrees.
Vegetable fermentation due to start on Thursday if all Goes well. Mind you the veg need 4 weeks to ferment so will be buying commercial ones a bit longer!

Click to expand...

I’m interested in your fermentation projects @shelley262 I hope both work well. I only ‘cook’ The IP yoghurt for 8.5 hrs as I find it gets a bit too tart for my taste the longer it’s on, but from what you’ve said I guess it could be the different bacteria fermenting at different rates. I just use a dollop of Yeo valley as a starter. I also strain through muslin to remove the lactose containing whey and make it like Greek yoghurt. (I freeze the whey in ice cube trays and give one to Dennis now and then - he loves them, I bet Cooper would too)
I’m trying to follow Tim Spector’s recommendation about eating 30 different plants a week to improve gut microbiome diversity. It sounded daunting to begin with but as herbs&spices, coffee, tea and dark chocolate are included, it’s turning out to be easier than I thought and it’s making me be more adventurous. If I’m not careful I stick to the same known meals for ease.