Type 2 What is the health goal here?

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

I just joined this forum out of curiosity and a few other reasons - from lurking, it would appear that the general consensus is to manage living with type 2 diabetes - is that correct? I'm a bit confused as to why someone wouldn't want to get rid of these disease.

13lizanne · Feb 10, 2016

May I ask why you are curious? Since you do not have Diabetes I would like to know what prompted you to post on this forum?

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

Yes, of course I was born with complete transposition of the great arteries - basically a plumbing problem. I had heart surgery as a baby, which somewhat repaired the problem, but it's not a fix - my right ventricle is my systemic ventricle and well, there's a group of us kicking around and it's not exactly smooth sailing. I've found that a lot of people with my condition have, just like the general population, eaten themselves into all sorts of problems, be it weight management problems, type 2 diabetes, coronary disease and other annoyances. Since type 2 diabetes is such a massive problem in the UK, I thought I would have a look around and see what forums (fora?) there are, and the views, advice, opinions etc.

Since type 2 diabetes affects all organ systems, it's of a keen interest to me - and from a professional point of view, i do a lot of work with people who have chronic conditions. Type 2 diabetes is an interesting disease, unlike having a heart attack, it's more progressive and that's why I'm so curious as this 'management of symptoms' rather than addressing causation.

Hope this helps.

ladybird64 · Feb 10, 2016

intelligenteating said:
Yes, of course I was born with complete transposition of the great arteries - basically a plumbing problem. I had heart surgery as a baby, which somewhat repaired the problem, but it's not a fix - my right ventricle is my systemic ventricle and well, there's a group of us kicking around and it's not exactly smooth sailing. I've found that a lot of people with my condition have, just like the general population, eaten themselves into all sorts of problems, be it weight management problems, type 2 diabetes, coronary disease and other annoyances. Since type 2 diabetes is such a massive problem in the UK, I thought I would have a look around and see what forums (fora?) there are, and the views, advice, opinions etc.

Since type 2 diabetes affects all organ systems, it's of a keen interest to me - and from a professional point of view, i do a lot of work with people who have chronic conditions. Type 2 diabetes is an interesting disease, unlike having a heart attack, it's more progressive and that's why I'm so curious as this 'management of symptoms' rather than addressing causation.

Hope this helps.

You're a nutritionist?

13lizanne · Feb 10, 2016

Not really! . I and many others on this forum have managed to "reverse" or keep tight control of our type 2 diabetes by following a low carbohydrate higher fat diet and by increasing the amount of exercise we take. I was medicated for 10 years before I found this forum and by following the advice of forum members am now medication free. As someone sharing with and supporting people who aim to be as healthy as they possibly can be "live with the disease" it was the last sentence of your original post that I found puzzling, this is a forum which is primarily for the support and edification of people with diabetes

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

A nutritionist, certainly not! However, it's not a protected title in the UK- so you can be one if you like

But yes - there appears to be people on here who have been living with the disease for years, that to me, sounds absurd - but then I tend to question everything. I don't write that in an argumentative or arrogance manner, it just amazes me.

13lizanne · Feb 10, 2016

And yet! You give your occupation on your profile as "preventative nutrition"

Diakat · Feb 10, 2016

I'm not sure that you ever can be totally without it once you have had it. The people here that have reversed it work hard to keep reversed. Some people do not understand diabetes well enough to reverse it, some are in denial and some just say they like carbs too much to be without. Your life, your decisions...

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

Correct, we mustn't associate a nutritionist as having specific interest in preventative nutrition at all. I can see the confusion, however. You can have a look at my website if it helps you with clarity, but I'm not here to promote what I do.

Interesting comment about carbs though! I found a thread on here about whether it's good to eat oranges or not.. what a bizarre society we have become.

13lizanne · Feb 10, 2016

No thank you
(I was raised to be polite lol )

Bluetit1802 · Feb 10, 2016

I assume you are referring to type 2 diabetics? Type 1s have to live with it. Their bodies don't produce insulin so they have to inject it or probably die. Nothing else they can do. No cure as yet.

Type 2s that are not so far down the line and still have sufficient working beta cells can use diet to control and perhaps reverse it. Many do. But those that have reversed it must continue to work hard with their diets to maintain the reversal or they will be back where they started. There are a few lucky ones that have completely reversed it and can eat "normally" again.

NoCrbs4Me · Feb 10, 2016

If you are on this forum to learn about how type 2 diabetics get on, you've come to the right place. However, it is clear that you have much to learn - especially if you think it's bizarre for type 2s to debate whether oranges are good or bad. I think it's bizarre to assume one way or the other. While many people can reverse their type 2 with diet and exercise, many cannot. As stated previously, reversal rarely means being able to go back to eating high carbs. The longer a person has had type 2, the harder it is to reverse. Sometimes people can get there blood glucose levels to normal in as little as a few days when they reduce their carb intake and sometimes people never can without meds. One big hurdle is that the health care industry does not believe type 2 can be reversed and that it is always a progressive disease and this is what is told to newly diagnosed type 2 people. They are also told to eat a high carb/low fat diet and not to test their on blood glucose levels, which guarantees it will get progressively worse.

How did you form your opinion that it can be reversed?

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

Yes, the thread is about type 2 diabetes. Type 1 diabetes is more commonly associated with consumption of bovine growth fluid after weaning.

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

NoCrbs4Me said:
If you are on this forum to learn about how type 2 diabetics get on, you've come to the right place. However, it is clear that you have much to learn - especially if you think it's bizarre for type 2s to debate whether oranges are good or bad. I think it's bizarre to assume one way or the other. While many people can reverse their type 2 with diet and exercise, many cannot. As stated previously, reversal rarely means being able to go back to eating high carbs. The longer a person has had type 2, the harder it is to reverse. Sometimes people can get there blood glucose levels to normal in as little as a few days when they reduce their carb intake and sometimes people never can without meds. One big hurdle is that the health care industry does not believe type 2 can be reversed and that it is always a progressive disease and this is what is told to newly diagnosed type 2 people. They are also told to eat a high carb/low fat diet and not to test their on blood glucose levels, which guarantees it will get progressively worse.

How did you form your opinion that it can be reversed?

Well, many years ago, I was sat out on the back porch at the Esselstyn farm having dinner with Neal Barnard, and I just suddenly realised that actually the UK has this problem too. So, I worked with a bunch of people in the UK and had exactly the same results as he had in the states.

azure · Feb 10, 2016

intelligenteating said:
Yes, the thread is about type 2 diabetes. Type 1 diabetes is more commonly associated with consumption of bovine growth fluid after weaning.

As the cause of Type 1 is still unknown you cannot say that as it's merely one theory of many. In actuality, the cause is most likely thought to be a cascade of events.

Kristin251 · Feb 10, 2016

intelligenteating said:
Type 1 diabetes is more commonly associated with consumption of bovine growth fluid after weaning.

WHAT????? This question coming from a type 1 dx'd at 51 years old.

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

I said, more commonly associated - that infers strong correlation, not causation.

azure · Feb 10, 2016

intelligenteating said:
I said, more commonly associated - that infers strong correlation, not causation.

Evidence? There is more than one correlation so I'm interested as to why you've mentioned that one.

intelligenteating · Feb 10, 2016

It's the strongest. I'm not going to sit here and post a bunch of links, but I'm sure given the level of activity online you have, you're well aware of the work of Colin Campbell and Neal Barnard.

13lizanne · Feb 10, 2016

So, to repeat my original question- why have you come here ? merely to insult us, or, are you selling something?

Type 2 What is the health goal here?

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