What is the HF in LCHF?

[Oldvatr]

I would think it would be less likely on LCHF since it's the lack of fat which causes gallstones on other low cal diets. LCHF can be low in calories, but it isn't necessarily low cal. It certainly doesn't have to be 800 cals like some. I range from 1200-2400 cals on LCHF, so not very low cal at all.

I found the following articles that seem to imply an increased risk for diabetics.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gallstones/Pages/Causes.aspx
http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/gallstones

These both cite sudden dietary weight loss and high cholesterol levels, and also cholesterol reducing drugs as being possible factors. I think that LCHF can be seen as doing the first two in this list, and statins for the last one. However, I have no trials data to refer back to.

EDIT to add: Some sites recommend not losing more than 3 lb per week, others it is 0.5 to 2 lb per week. Thus, a higher fat intake would seem to work in our favour by slowing weight loss, and increasing HDL, with concurrent lowering of triglycerides. LCHF is not classed as VLCD, which is the type of diet with highest rate of weight loss.

 

[Oldvatr]

In this thread I have expressed a concern or two over cholesterol issues. My GP practice has discontinued doing the annual lipid panel, and only does the TC test. I wrote a nice letter to my GP requesting that he sign me up for full lipids because I am on LCHF and already have a high TC.
Today I went to see the vampire, and am pleased to report that I am signed up for the whole shebang. I will report soon on latest results.

 

[Oldvatr]

In this thread I have expressed a concern or two over cholesterol issues. My GP practice has discontinued doing the annual lipid panel, and only does the TC test. I wrote a nice letter to my GP requesting that he sign me up for full lipids because I am on LCHF and already have a high TC.
Today I went to see the vampire, and am pleased to report that I am signed up for the whole shebang. I will report soon on latest results.

I now have my latest results back from the lab. My HbA1c has dropped from 53 in Nov 2015 to 45 now (equivalent to a glucometer average of 7.4 mmol/L). My SD monthly average was 8.2 at this time, and my NEO was 6.5 giving a combined average of 7.35 (close enough, and same as previous).
My TC was 7.2 (up by 0.1) and my HDL was 1.1 (down 0,1) giving an increased HDL ratio of 6.5
My trigs were 2.5 (no previous result to compare)
My ketones registered nil on the ketostix scale.

Bottom line: it seems I am not triggering my ketogenic mode. My weight dropped due to low carbs, but I bought it up by increasing HF. My lipids are slightly moving in the wrong direction, but worrying is that my HDL has not increased, and my trigs are too high. At least now I have a baseline for future comparison. I estimate my daily carb intake is 80-100 g, so I shall consider reducing it further to get to my personal fat trigger point.

 

[tim2000s]

I estimate my daily carb intake is 80-100 g, so I shall consider reducing it further to get to my personal fat trigger point.

If you are at that level, then there is no chance of getting into Ketosis. I'd recommend measuring your carbs for a period as it's surprising how quickly they add up.

 

[Oldvatr]

If you are at that level, then there is no chance of getting into Ketosis. I'd recommend measuring your carbs for a period as it's surprising how quickly they add up.

Not sure if I actually need ketosis. My weight has been effectively static since this time last year, and is at the level I want to be at. Having said that, I have now lost adipose fat, and my waistline has gone down by 2 inches, and I now need braces to hold my jeans up. I have reduced my meds, and my bgl average is still falling. I am aiming for a soft landing without major hypo's, and don't feel the need to force things too much. My cholesterol is relatively static, so I am not too concerned on that score either, but hopefully a few minor tweaks can get those moving in the right direction.

 

[JohnEGreen]

After reading that article in the Guardian I'm definitely going to pay more attention to the HF part of LCHF from now on.

 

[Oldvatr]

I now have my latest results back from the lab. My HbA1c has dropped from 53 in Nov 2015 to 45 now (equivalent to a glucometer average of 7.4 mmol/L). My SD monthly average was 8.2 at this time, and my NEO was 6.5 giving a combined average of 7.35 (close enough, and same as previous).
My TC was 7.2 (up by 0.1) and my HDL was 1.1 (down 0,1) giving an increased HDL ratio of 6.5
My trigs were 2.5 (no previous result to compare)
My ketones registered nil on the ketostix scale.

Bottom line: it seems I am not triggering my ketogenic mode. My weight dropped due to low carbs, but I bought it up by increasing HF. My lipids are slightly moving in the wrong direction, but worrying is that my HDL has not increased, and my trigs are too high. At least now I have a baseline for future comparison. I estimate my daily carb intake is 80-100 g, so I shall consider reducing it further to get to my personal fat trigger point.

Saw my DCN today and we discussed my LCHF diet and my control regime, She is impressed with my progress, and promptly discharged me from needing ongoing specialist support. I am on GP only care now, We discussed raised lipids, gallstones, ketosis with lower carbs, stopping half my Gliclazide dose, ketone monitoring. My weight is static since I last saw her,

So, all in all it went well. However I have lost my excuse for having 3 monthly HbA1c tests, and expect to be put on 6 montthly or annual checkups from now on.

 

[Oldvatr]

Update: Just had my (now) annual checkup. HbA1c dropped from 99 this time last year to 42 today. My TC dropped from 7.1 to 5.7, anf my HDL is up slightly at 1.2. My LDL is now 3.7 and my HDL ratio is 4.8 Trigs have dropped to 1,7 whixh is not as much as I was hoping for. My weight has dropped from 67 kg to 64, which is still a reasonable weight for me (BMI 22)

So gronffing extra fat has not had disastrous results for me, and these results are moving in the right direction.

The only negative signs in my test resukts is that my sodium levels are low, and my potassium levels are elevated. However, the doc is not unduly concerned with this, and I have been outside limits like this before. I think these excursions are due to (1) taking a diuretic med (now stopped) and (2) eating an avacado a day which is new for me. Also my heart meds can push up potassium, so these are being monitored and may change if levels are still out of sorts on next review. All other serum indictors are showing normal, and kidney and liver functions reporting all present and correct.

So all I can say is that for me the HF in LCHF is good news.

 

[Oldvatr]

LCHF - low carb high fat.

I prefer Low Carb Higher Fat because the extra fat is only required if running in ketosis, which is not always the case with this diet. To me, the term HIGH FAT screams unlimited intake, which I would not advise at all. Certainly, I take in more fat than I was under the Eatwell#2 guidelines, so it is obvously not Low Fat. But it needs to be a balanced approach.

 

[CollieBoy]

I prefer Low Carb Higher Fat

This echos my appproach!

 

[Oldvatr]

Vit B's are fat burners? Really? Where does this nugget of info come from? I can see claim for it being made on slimming blogs, and health and fitness mags, but I cannot find any scientific evidence to support this. It is often shown on the web as being an urban myth. true, we don't produce much in the way of red blood cells without these vits, but I cannot see proper evidence or studies that show it reduces fat or weight. if you have this evidence, please share it with us.
Edit: it seems that the post I was replying to has been deleted, so the text above no longer makes sense. Sorry....

 

[Freema]

Vit B's are fat burners? Really? Where does this nugget of info come from? I can see claim for it being made on slimming blogs, and health and fitness mags, but I cannot find any scientific evidence to support this. It is often shown on the web as being an urban myth. true, we don't produce much in the way of red blood cells without these vits, but I cannot see proper evidence or studies that show it reduces fat or weight. if you have this evidence, please share it with us.

but you can start your ketosis by eating only fat in 2-3 days... then your body will have to create ketones. otherwise I agree that maybe too much fat ist´n good in the long run... but maybe mostly because it takes the place from a lot of other more nutirent condenced foods...

 

[AtkinsMo]

Fat is nutrient dense food! Fat is teeming with fat soluble vitamins.

 

[Oldvatr]

but you can start your ketosis by eating only fat in 2-3 days... then your body will have to create ketones. otherwise I agree that maybe too much fat ist´n good in the long run... but maybe mostly because it takes the place from a lot of other more nutirent condenced foods...

Yes, basically when we eat fat then if we are not in ketosis, then some is excreted via the bile duct, but mostly it becomes stored body fat if there is insulin around unless we exercise enough to burn it off (and create ketones that get filtered out by the kidneys or burnt off in the brain by ketosis) So high fat intake can lead directly to NAFLD , especially if the diet is also medium to high carb thus preventing ketosis.

 

[Freema]

Fat is nutrient dense food! Fat is teeming with fat soluble vitamins.

yes but you easily get enough of those vitamins. except from vitamin D that mostly is in fat fish and sunshine. while vitamin B most of them are mostly from vegtables...and minerals the same and trace-minerals too

 

[Freema]

Yes, basically when we eat fat then if we are not in ketosis, then some is excreted via the bile duct, but mostly it becomes stored body fat if there is insulin around unless we exercise enough to burn it off (and create ketones that get filtered out by the kidneys or burnt off in the brain by ketosis) So high fat intake can lead directly to NAFLD , especially if the diet is also medium to high carb thus preventing ketosis.

fasting does the job for you, it gets your insuline down,go down in numbers of calories for 2 days like 1200 calories and only eat in a window of 6 hours those two days and then your ketosis is started

3 days of fasting on 500 calories only gets ones insuline down with about 60% ... and if you continue it doesn´t do the job much lower

 

[Oldvatr]

fasting does the job for you, it gets your insuline down,go down in numbers of calories for 2 days like 1200 calories and only eat in a window of 6 hours those two days and then your ketosis is started

3 days of fasting on 500 calories only gets ones insuline Down with about 60% ... and if you continue it doesn´t do the job much lower

Not everybody is fasting, and not everybody is actually achieving ketosis but are LCHF.so this thread has to allow for variants/ It is important we discuss what conditions could lead to concerns so people can avoid doing any damage to themselves.

By the way B12 is fat soluble too. We also get some enzymes from fat

 

[Brunneria]

fasting does the job for you, it gets your insuline down,go down in numbers of calories for 2 days like 1200 calories and only eat in a window of 6 hours those two days and then your ketosis is started

3 days of fasting on 500 calories only gets ones insuline Down with about 60% ... and if you continue it doesn´t do the job much lower

Hi,

Could you provide some sources for all these 'facts' and 'figures'?

While i agree that fasting will lead to ketosis (if it goes on long enough, and is a type of fasting that supports ketosis) human beings vary a lot, and making statements like 2 days of 1200 calories and eating in a 6 hour window get you into ketosis is not true. It may. It may not. It depends on the individual.

And where did you see that 3 days of 500 calories = 60% insulin reduction? That will depend on what those 500 calories consist of.

 

[Freema]

Not everybody is fasting, and not everybody is actually achieving ketosis but are LCHF.so this thread has to allow for variants/ It is important we discuss what conditions could lead to concerns so people can avoid doing any damage to themselves.

By the way B12 is fat soluble too. We also get some enzymes from fat

most vitamin B´s are water soluble... you are right that vitamin B is fat soluble... but the other 5 kinds of vitamin B´s are not .. and yes vitamin B12 comes from meat almost exclusively...

 

[Freema]

Hi,

Could you provide some sources for all these 'facts' and 'figures'?

While i agree that fasting will lead to ketosis (if it goes on long enough, and is a type of fasting that supports ketosis) human beings vary a lot, and making statements like 2 days of 1200 calories and eating in a 6 hour window get you into ketosis is not true. It may. It may not. It depends on the individual.
And where did you see that 3 days of 500 calories = 60% insulin reduction? That will depend on what those 500 calories consist of.

yes it is of cause lchf-diet
It is all knowledge I have from the famous dr. Fung and he´s statistics...

from all he´s youTube interwievs and lectures / seminars ; https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+fung