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ghost_whistler

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So after almost 4 months I find I'm eating a lot more protein than many LCHF people advocate. Whether or not this is a good thing is up for debate as there's seems to be a lack of clear information.

I've also not lost any weight in the last couple of months. It has fluctuated around 82-83KG. I don't know why this is. It has been suggested it's insulin resistance or stress or whatever. This is frustrating because shifting the weight would be very healthy.

People talk about intermittent fasting quite a lot, in connection with LCHF. This ahas been suggested to me many times and I have to say, in all honesty, I am not comfortable with the idea. If people don't feel hungry then by all means don't eat, but that should come naturally, IMO. To starve myself, which is how it feels, seems a bad thing. There is also the question as to whether this is healthy in terms of cortisol and blood sugar as I have read that it affects both. The latter might noe be an issue for me, but if I suffer from stress that means high cortisol which isn't a good thing.

However I feel hungry enough that eating even twice (never mind once) a day is a big ask.

Unfortunately I don't have any other answers to the stall I am in. My experience in dealing with the online keto community at large is not terribly positive. There are so many differing and even conflicting opinions, all put forward no doubt honestly and earnestly, that people become very angry very quickly if you dare to question the person giving advice. I don't know who's telling the truth, or who has the facts. But I cannot deal with the evangelists; they are doing this cause no good at all. It's already difficult enough when the medical community at large is still wedded to the dietary orthodoxy of carbs/balance.
 
I am sorry that you are still feeling hungry as you do. I don't advocate intermittent fasting because I have not tried it. It isn't that I think it doesn't work for some people, it's just that I have no personal data to tell you about.

Sometimes it's easy to confuse mouth hunger with stomach hunger. Mouth hunger happens when an addictive food pops into the mind and you head for the cupboard. Stomach hunger happens when you feel it in your stomach and there is often a growling to contend with.

My recommendation is that you wait for stomach hunger and have a couple of big spoonfuls of extra thick double cream and see how long it is before you stomach complains again.
 
I don't have a lot of experience in this, but I have been able to trigger stronger weight loss by a bit (and I mean a small bit) of intermittent fasting and upping exercise. I wasn't in a plateau - rather trying to drop blood sugar levels down a notch - but weight loss has speeded up.

I share(d) your concerns about fasting as I find it hard to go too long between meals (years of migraines being triggered by hunger). However, I decided to try skipping breakfast - figured if it got unbearable I could just eat something - and found that the hunger came and went and did not get as bad as I thought it would. Also got no headache. Have now done this 4 times and am considering doing more regularly as I did get better fasting blood glucose levels. Should say that alongside this I have stepped up,exercise (walking) quite considerably.

Otherwise maybe have a really detailed look at what you're eating and see if some changes might help you out of the plateau.
 
I think that four months is still early in the game - I was diagnosed six months ago and my metabolism seems to be staggering around like a drunkard, with highs if I eat too much fruit, but lows mid afternoon or if I decide to go out for a fairly long walk. I think it is insulin overproduction and resistance still going on but also beginning to turn off once in a while and my liver is totally bewildered.
I also get highs if I fast, so until I see my Hba1c number has dropped to normal I am just sticking to the diet and not worrying about weightloss yet.
 
Thanks.

I tend to get hungry about 3 hours after eating. I don't think that's terribly bad. But it would be a struggle to go to bed on an empty stomach, without a slice of cheese.

The problem is that snacking is, so they tell me, not good for one's insulin and insulin resistance.
 
The only thing I can think is that my protein might be too high, but that's a matter of conjecture it seems. Some people say eat less others are fine with more. I like protein (ie meat and cheese) as I find it (and them) very satisfying. The hard part is reducing protein and making it up with fat because good fat sans protein is hard to come by. It's a shame avocados are so expensive.
 
I read an article that did claim blood sugar as well as cortisol can rise as a result of fasting. I cannot verify that however.

It may well be early in the game. I've been eating poorly for years and suffering blood sugar crashes. I hope this is all part of the recovery process. It just seems utterly masochistic to deny oneself food if hungry tho
 
Interesting questions. I have a few questions for you...

What are your goals with the ketogenic diet?

If you have diabetes, what type? What is your fasting glucose and 2-hour post meal level?

What is a typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner for you? Snacks?

I eat breakfast, then eat lunch 2 - 3 hours later, then eat dinner 4 - 5 hours later. I do intermittent fasting, meaning I eat dinner 3 hours before going to bed, which creates a period of 12 - 14 hours between dinner and breakfast. Not eating 3 hours before bed is a common recommendation for everyone now, not just those on a ketogenic diet.
 
I have been trying to get myself healthy for nearly twenty years because of other people's idea of healthy! (Mostly doctors and health care providers)
The problem lies with your own personal balance of what your body requires to make you healthy.
Now that means you have to experiment, experience and try, the level of carbs, protein and fats you need to eat in what portion and times of the day suit you.
The same with exercise, how much, how intense and how long to suit your lifestyle and working and family life.
It's not simple, easy or designed to be as rigid as some would like.
Because something works for me, doesn't mean it will work for you.

I use fasting, intermittent or longer to suit me, I have been in ketosis for quite a long time, and now I know, I don't have to eat as much as I'm used to think I did, the body can survive with little food as long it suits you.
Because of ketosis, I am never hungry, and I pick and choose when and what I eat depending on how I want to. I have found my balance for now. I'm not stupid enough (some will disagree) that things won't change, they will and then I will change with it.

It is your personal choice how to low carb, take advice, try it then make your judgment on wether it is for you. It does work. Give it time and best wishes.
 
Weight loss and blood sugar stability, health in other words.

I am not diabetic, I had suffered blood sugar crashes for reasons that could not be diagnosed. I put it down to carbs.

breakfast: beef burger or sausages, broccoli lettuce.
lunch: 2 tesco chicken thighs, avocado cabbage or lettuce.
dinner 2 pork chops, spinach, kale.

I eat dinner at 5pm and go to bed around 10, 10-30. I get hungry in that time.
 
ghost_whistler said:
Weight loss and blood sugar stability, health in other words.

I am not diabetic, I had suffered blood sugar crashes for reasons that could not be diagnosed. I put it down to carbs.

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Click to expand...

when you say 'blood sugar crashes' what do you mean? what level are you blood sugars when they crash and how do they relate to the time you have eaten? When did they stop and have they remained absent now?

There is nothing wrong or unhealthy about denying oneself food, and feeling hungry, if one has eaten a suitable amount for ones size and level of activity. For some people, the hunger switch doesnt work well, or at all, but no damage will be being done by ignoring the hunger, its not a nice feeling though. Over time your body will adapt and the signals will lessen.

Perhaps you could have half your 5pm meal at 5pm, and the rest at 9pm?
 
ghost_whistler I agree that 5 to 5 1/2 hours between dinner and bed is too long, 3 to 3 1/2 hours would be better. What healthy fats are you adding to your meals? The avocado you mentioned is a good one. Have you considered buying a glucose meter that uses cheap test strips so you can see how your glucose levels are rising and falling throughout the day? That would provide you (and us) with a lot of useful information.

I live in the US so I'm not familiar with "tesco chicken thighs". Are they roasted, grilled, or breaded and deep fried? If roasted or grilled, what are they basted with? Sugar is in so many foods.
 
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@ghost_whistler

are you still self-identifying as a Reactive Hypoglycaemic?

I have seen several RHers (including myself) comment that 'going to sleep hungry' is almost impossible. so I think it may be a common feature for us.

Also, I was interested in your menu for the day. You don't mention fat at all. Are you using mayonnaise? cooking in fat? leaving the skin on your chicken thighs? That kind of thing.
 
Apparently it is advised not to eat 3 hours before bedtime.

I cook with butter, i might have coconut oil in avocado or in a hot drink (can't drink butter, ugh), and I eat some cheese.

It's hard to find anything else that isn't full of carbs or protein as well.

tesco is just the shop, these are plain chicken thighs that I grill. According to the label, they are 17g fat and protein per 100g weight.
 

i eat burger fried in butter or grilled suasage with brocoli for breakfast, 2 chicken thighs grilled plus avocado for lunch, and 2 pork chops fried in butter for dinner with spinach and kale
 

Yes, while it's better for the body to stop eating 3 hours prior to bed, it's not needed for the purposes of the low carb diet or the low carb ketogenic diet, so no worries there.

I regularly pop in and out of ketosis because I eat around 50 carbs a day. When I'm trying to get back into ketosis, I'm sometimes battling cravings. At those times I up my fat intake even more. For more ways to increase your healthy fat intake, perhaps you could ask for ideas here on the forum. I personally eat pats of butter, cold from the fridge, but I've been doing this a long time, and I like how butter from grass fed cows tastes. Raw nuts, organic peanut butter with no other ingredients (that you stir then refridgerate) are other favorites.
 

Have you had your consultant appointment yet? As you've not been diagnosed with anything blood sugar related, then perhaps it's best to,wait for that appointment if you haven't had it.

You were given a lot of useful information on your other thread. Again, you need to find what works for you - especially as you've merely been guessing at possible diagnoses so far.

For weight loss, many people like Slimming World. I've not used it myself but it has a lot of fans, including a number of people in my own family.
 
The idea is that eating no later than that is it helps improve insulin resistance
 
Eating low carb helps. Intermittent fasting does too - (I personal eat all three meals in a 10 to 12 hour window). That said, 27 months after starting the low carb ketogenic diet, glucose levels improved significantly during the first 4 weeks, but then plateaued and continued to improve very gradually from that point forward. With regular walking, I can now knock a high glucose level back down in 20 minutes.

All that said, while my health is significantly improved, I still have severe insulin resistance. If I exceed my carb limit in a meal, my glucose levels can hit 200 mg/dl (11.1 mmol/l) or higher.

I have not read the other topic where forum members addressed some of your questions and concerns, so don't know your comfort level with including healthy fats with all meals. I had a lot of concerns about that initially, so did a lot of reading. The low carb diet doesn't work well if you're eating low fat too. Do you have concerns about including healthy fats with all your meals?
 
I was under the impression the IF fasting window needs to be at least 16 hours.

Eating fat isn't the problem, finding good sources to include is. Slathering hot sauces or oils over meals isn't really the answer IMO, but there seems little else that isn't either too high in carbs or proteins, like nuts or cheese for example.
 
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