When is a fast not a fast?

@AndBreathe
Dr Fung has some more info on fasting here..

https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent-fasting/questions-and-answers

Maybe I'm having a bit too much cream in my coffee...

I might even be tempted to try a water, bone broth & black tea only fast to see if that works any better... maybe in a couple of weeks.. I'll report back if I do.

Reads
Mark

bulkbiker said:

As I have never counted calories I have no idea how many calories my BPC has -all I know is that it keeps me satiated for a day. As it is almost all fat or water then it has minimal (no) effect on my blood sugars. My 7 day "fast" was to see how quickly I could place my body into fairly deep nutritional ketosis ( a ketone level of more than 1.5 mmol/l) in this case it was on day 3.
Over the 7 day period I lost 8 pounds in weight had my lowest ever blood glucose reading of 3.8 mmol/l (on my SD Codefree) and felt great. I ate no food so in some definitions it was a fast. Also I did have a half teaspoon of salt in a glass of water daily and tea with lactofree milk the rest of the time. I think we are all getting a bit too tied up with specific language. Did I have a hypo for example? I felt a tiny bit off so had some more salt and water.. Is it even possible for a person on no medication to have a hypo? I don't know.

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Out of interst @bulkbiker could the salt raise your bg a fraction, enough for you to feel better and nothing to do with rehydration as liquids are doing that ok. Salt I feel is only needed when a person goes cold turkey onto low carb diet as high carb full of salt. Cold turkey causes dizziness and fainting symptoms?
I feel everyone is at different STAGES in their diabetes control and modification of dietary needs. Some too quick in changes so cold turkey symptoms. I feel @bulkbiker is an experienced low carber so less salt intake variation. I could be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

@ickihun
Salt is known to affect blood pressure in some (by no means all), but it does not affect blood glucose.
On the other hand, bad glucose control can, and often does, affect blood pressure.

ickihun said:

Out of interst @bulkbiker could the salt raise your bg a fraction, enough for you to feel better and nothing to do with rehydration as liquids are doing that ok. Salt I feel is only needed when a person goes cold turkey onto low carb diet as high carb full of salt. Cold turkey causes dizziness and fainting symptoms?
I feel everyone is at different STAGES in their diabetes control and modification of dietary needs. Some too quick in changes so cold turkey symptoms. I feel @bulkbiker is an experienced low carber so less salt intake variation. I could be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

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You're right about me being an old hand at Low Carbing or just old haha
I was reading on the keto pages that I follow that if you are in ketosis its good to take some extra salt as it is leached out of the body as part of the ketogenic process ..I 'm not sure of the exact science but Dr Fung also advocates taking some extra salt if fasting and I'm certainly not going to argue with my hero... As to salt raising BG I'm afraid I don't really know and I didn't measure soon after my low so can't say for sure. It is interesting though that it was on the third day of fasting which some say is the best time to fast for for the best BG results.. so maybe I just proved something else.

It is very very interesting @bulkbiker . I also appreciate you sharing your findings. The more information available the better, I think.
The sooner professors realise 'one size doesn't fit all' the better.
I'm a great believer that diabetes has different statuses, not types but stages in development in its either damaging symptoms are about to start, get worse or way off starting that process in anyway shape or form. A complex disease.
Time plays a huge part, even on recovery/remission/reversal.
No quick fix and stages completed in the right way for that individual. Progression inevitable. Meds cannot do that for sufferers. Just give a barrier for high bgs.
Diabetes care needs rethinking! This way of treatment proves that. Well done again anyone fasting or fighting their diabetes in any way!

I saw Jason Fung in a recent interview for a woman's health show. I think it was a link I picked up on this forum, but memory fails. He was saying that fasting can be any of the things that you're talking about, And that you have to pick something that works with your lifestyle. Any period of time that you give your insulin resistance a chance to take a break is good, And you have to make it to suit your lifestyle, So you will continue to use this tool. The advantage of longer fasts, As I understand it is that they allow auto Fiji

Sorry computer glitch. Longer fasts allow a cleansing mechanism of Autophagy to start working to repair your cells, and also extended fasts can help reset your basal metabolism if you have been low-fat dieting for extended periods of time.

Brunneria said:

Throughout history and across the world, there have been so many different interpretations of Fasting that it beggars belief.
Water fasts
Bread and water
Fat fasts
Clear liquid
Warrior Fasts
Religious Fasts
Fruit fasts
Fruit and veg, no meat or fish
16/8 (basically skipping breakfast)
5/2 (500 cals twice a week, normal eating the rest of the time
I could go on... And on... And on...


I don't actually care what people do, but it would help tremendously if people explained what they meant.

When the word 'fasting' covers all of the above, i need a signpost or two.

By the way, @Pipp my understanding of the Fat Fast thought process is that
- calories don't necessarily matter
- fat stops hunger and cravings
- fat does not stimulate insulin, allowing insulin resistance to fall
- fat encourages ketosis

Personally, i am enjoying a period of Weekday Intermittent Warrior Fat Fasts (fat bombs to prevent hunger, where necessary, with a single evening meal every 24 hrs).
Next week will probably be different.

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Hey! Let's not forget the utter "famine" of plotline in the fast & the furious "Franchise"....


@ickihun are you sure you haven't put the sugar & salt in the wrong containers..?

Seriously.
Believe or not guys.. Even I (once in a while.) can go well past 8pm without eating anything.. Normally too busy & use it as an excuse to check my basal rate??

Ok, as far as I am concerned, fasting no matter the length of time, is a period without food. I do drink tea, black, no sugar and water.
I have done a fasting test that lasted 80 hours in hospital.
I have done a few two days fasting. Plenty of fasting days.
I am now currently doing different intermittent fasting days to see which ones are really good for me. These I will post in our forum, so far some interesting results.

I am weird, but I believe my body can do without food for longer periods to no ill effects, no side effects, my blood glucose levels go nowhere. I'm permanently in ketosis. It seems I only need food in small quantities, just for nutrients and not for fuelling my body, my energy levels are better, I'm not tired! I can work consistently for twelve hours. I sleep brilliantly. I believe I can live comfortable with about 1000 calories a day. I have learned to live without many food groups, and as long as my protein, fats, eggs, salad vegetables in small meals help me exist.
Of course this way of fasting is sustainable for those with busy lives.
I am in experimental mode.

Maybe one day, if I can, I could do a seven day fast.
And see what happens.

Does the fasts cause a rebound once you eat normally again?