Who’s to blame ?

[Spirit01]

When I was first told that I had diabetes (2006) it really didn’t mean much to me. Although I taught how to deal with it when teaching first aid I really had no idea about THE CONDITION. I’ve capitalised that because I really don’t like to see terms such as “dreadful disease” because that instills fear as much as anything. The Dr asked me to make an appointment because I was pre diabetic but 1 week later when I saw him all of a sudden he announced I was T2 & made an appointment for me to see a nurse and put me on 1 tablet of Metformin. I saw the nurse who upped it to 2 which the Dr disagreed with & instructed me to just take 1. She gave me a magazine which would have competed with any Stephen King horror novel. I started it & binned it as I didn’t want this garbage rammed down my throat. I was closely monitored and reduced my levels very quickly by eating low carbs but still at this point as far as I was concerned I had a health issue and nothing more and that’s how I still deal with it, I have to for my sanity. My big question I ask myself is who is really to blame ? At 67 I’m aware that as kids we ate a lot of bread, potatoes, rice puddings, etc all designed to “fill you up” because parents couldn’t afford lots of meat in them days. Dad grew hundredweights of potatoes as it was a staple diet. Admittedly we did play a lot which was great exercise. Forward now into adulthood, I still ate much the same but became more interested in exercise such as martial arts and swimming. “You need to eat more bread & potatoes, meat pudding, stew & dumplings to be strong” said my dear old mum. Over time I put a few pounds on and went to see a dietitian who in all honesty was HUGE. I’d never seen someone so fat so I was a bit taken aback. Her assessment was “you’re not eating enough carbs”. I told her I ate around 2 slices of bread a day but she said that wasn’t enough and to have at least 4 slices and have more rice, potatoes, etc. This was the advice then so am I responsible? I found out a couple of years ago quite by chance (my notes) that I have stage 3a kidney disease. This is because of my diabetes I was informed. Hang on a minute, in 1985 I was a firefighter and when dealing with a fire one night part of a roof collapsed & I suffered spinal crush fractures. I was taking a heck of a lot of painkillers as prescribed & advised by my Dr. Paracetamol are not kidney friendly so am I to blame ? 2 weeks ago out of the blue I received a text from my surgery saying that during a review of patient notes it was noted I have kidney disease which is “probably” age related. How insensitive is that . I’m probably going to annoy some on here but having nearly died on the night of my accident I tend to look at life differently. Yes I’m type 2 but I don’t have medication as I no longer need it, I certainly don’t stick needles in myself anymore, my DN said I’ve never needed to so I don’t. I eat lots of protein but if I have some carbs it is treated as a treat. Today is my beautiful Wife’s birthday and for her dinner tonight she wants pizza so I’ll have some as well. Tomorrow I’m taking her out to lunch and I’ll have something like steak but no carbs and I always intermittently fast. I fully understand that this won’t work for everyone but it works for me and it’s how I deal with it emotionally and how I look after my mental health. I should mention that I lost 4.5 stones but unfortunately put 1 back on due to circumstances not eating related but it’s already started coming off again. I’m sorry if you as a reader don’t agree with my thoughts & ways but it’s how I deal with it. Sorry to the powers that be but you can stick your dreadful disease that’s going to give me a painful end to my life without some of my bits because I’m going to fight you by taking care of my body as much as I want ON MY TERMS and mentally you’re not going to beat me. I HAVE A HEALTH ISSUE and I’ll deal with it and if I’ve got it very wrong then put on my gravestone “was he to blame”. One last shot about anything, no one wants to cross over, I’m lucky in my beliefs (not god related) but consider this - from the moment of conception you are dying ! I don’t want to die of nothing, what would be the point . Please look after yourselves and take ownership of your health issue.

 

[Deleted member 527103]

Who's to blame for what?

Or more importantly (at least for me), is there any value in apportioning blame as it is looking backwards over things that we cannot change?
We are where we are so the question for me is "how am I going to manage it?"

 

[Spirit01]

Who's to blame for what?

Or more importantly (at least for me), is there any value in apportioning blame as it is looking backwards over things that we cannot change?
We are where we are so the question for me is "how am I going to manage it?"

100% agree. I’m not attempting to apportion blame, what I’m hopefully raising is where people say “it’s your fault, you’re lazy, you eat far too much etc” and it’s as if they are to blame well in a lot of cases they certainly aren’t. I knew an elderly gentleman that grew all his own fruit and vegetables, cycled or walked everywhere, had not an ounce of fat on him but then diagnosed T2. I also have a friend that was diagnosed years ago as T2 but he really doesn’t care and his mindset is “stuff it, when my time comes it comes”. He still drinks a lot of beer, still smokes, still eats exactly what he wants and still doesn’t care. He’s never had any meds, never gone back to any appointments, but in his mind he’s strong and just doesn’t give T2 any room in his head. Now I’m not saying that it’s correct but it’s how he deals with it. I think my message is more about how I deal with it mentally . I am not prepared to think about this every single waking hour just because I feel I ought to. I hope this doesn’t sound patronising but your response is great. I’m attempting to say that this isn’t my fault and this is how I deal with it which is where I believe you’re at. Fantastic

 

[Outlier]

There's no blame.

You (we) have an incurable disease. It isn't our fault. Lots of people have illnesses, and I doubt if any of them tried to deliberately become ill.

There are several ways of managing this illness. You can choose what works best for you. If you choose not to manage it, you know how it progresses. Your life, your choice.

We can offer help, support, real-life experience and no criticism. Your call.

 

[Deleted member 527103]

Actually, I am going to rephrase my comment above. It is not "how am I going to manage it?"
The real question is "how am I going to manage my life with this condition?"

If I only had to worry about diabetes, I could live in a bubble with no stress, no chance of getting ill, eat the same accurately portioned diet every day, do exactly the same exercise at exactly the same time every day. As a result, I could probably have the best HBA1C and Time in Range possible.
I would not be happy, I would not be stimulated. I would not achieve anything. I would be lonely.

Each of us requires different things to make us happy, different levels of stimulation, different amounts of contact with others, different desires to show a tangible achievement. And that is why the best treatment for our diabetes to be able to live the lives we want to live is different.

 

[Spirit01]

There's no blame.

You (we) have an incurable disease. It isn't our fault. Lots of people have illnesses, and I doubt if any of them tried to deliberately become ill.

There are several ways of managing this illness. You can choose what works best for you. If you choose not to manage it, you know how it progresses. Your life, your choice.

We can offer help, support, real-life experience and no criticism. Your call.

Not sure saying “we have an incurable disease” helps to be fair because these types of phrases are what can freak some people out. There are many that gladly report they have reversed it or are trying to and that’s because there’s always hope. For some saying that and reading about the incurable disease would mean there’s no hope and yes you are right, it’s my call on how I personally deal with it as is yours

 

[Pipp]

@Spirit01 , I guess if you were a firefighter in 1985, you are over the age of retirement now? With T2.
So one of the ‘Boomer’ generation , like me. Our parents will have known the ’deprivation’ of war time rationing, and, so when we were kids, perhaps we were ‘indulged’ a little? I have clear early memories of being taken to the NHS baby clinic where my mother was encouraged to give us concentrated orange juice, and rose hip syrup, for the fortified vitamin C. It was also full of sugar, which she was reliably informed by the health visitor was important to give children energy! Likewise the glucose tablets to help us stay bright and alert. Didn’t do our teeth much good, but we certainly had the energy to run outside around the farm fields and woodlands, from dawn to dusk. School dinners were carb based. It was a cheap way to feed lots of kids. Fast forward to early adulthood, and busy working lives. Were we brainwashed that breakfast cereals fortified with vitamins and minerals and ‘roughage’, as fibre was then known, were the best start to the day. Also busy working lives, and convenience foods were there to help us get through life. Vesta dried meals, anybody? . Low fat advice later, especially if we were carrying a bit to much weight. The mantra ’You are what you eat’, ‘fat makes you fat’. Who is to blame? I don’t think in those early days anyone was. The culture at the time, maybe. Those early health care workers, our parents, were only acting on the knowledge they had.

Following diagnosis, yes, the advice for me as an obese T2, was not helpful at all. Starchy carbs with every meal, then when that made things worse the only solution offered bariatric surgery. No blame apportioned to the HCPs making those decisions for me. They don’t have the time or the inclination, in the main ,to research other ways. Had I not done my own research, and found my own, individual pathto management, then I would only have myself to blame.
Not easy, though, and we all need a bit of help and guidance from time to time from others who are on a similar path.

edit of typo

 

[Spirit01]

Actually, I am going to rephrase my comment above. It is not "how am I going to manage it?"
The real question is "how am I going to manage my life with this condition?"

If I only had to worry about diabetes, I could live in a bubble with no stress, no chance of getting ill, eat the same accurately portioned diet every day, do exactly the same exercise at exactly the same time every day. As a result, I could probably have the best HBA1C and Time in Range possible.
I would not be happy, I would not be stimulated. I would not achieve anything. I would be lonely.

Each of us requires different things to make us happy, different levels of stimulation, different amounts of contact with others, different desires to show a tangible achievement. And that is why the best treatment for our diabetes to be able to live the lives we want to live is different.

And that was the intention of my original post. Your health issue and you deal with it the best way you can. I love this forum and have learnt so very much but only by looking at different ideas and taking what is of use to me. As an amateur genealogist and someone very keen on history I look backwards to try to help me to shape my future. I’m still thinking about when I was a bodybuilder and how much I loved it but now my poor old knees tell me that I really did too much and for what ? For me it’s all about how I can cope and that goes for so many things in my life. Thank you so much for your replies which are in my mind very positive

 

[Spirit01]

@Spirit01 , I guess if you were a firefighter in 1985, you are over the age of retirement now? With T2.
So one of the ‘Boomer’ generation , like me. Our parents will have known the ’deprivation’ of war time rationing, and, so when we were kids, perhaps we were ‘indulged’ a little? I have clear early memories of being taken to the NHS baby clinic where my mother was encouraged to give us concentrated orange juice, and rose hip syrup, for the fortified vitamin C. It was also full of sugar, which she was reliably informed by the health visitor was important to give children energy! Likewise the glucose tablets to help us stay bright and alert. Didn’t do our teeth much good, but we certainly had the energy to run outside around the farm fields and woodlands, from dawn to dusk. School dinners were carb based. It was a cheap way to feed lots of kids. Fast forward to early adulthood, and busy working lives. Were we brainwashed that breakfast cereals fortified with vitamins and minerals and ‘roughage’, as fibre was then known, were the best start to the day. Also busy working lives, and convenience foods were there to help us get through life. Vesta dried meals, anybody? . Low fat advice later, especially if we were carrying a bit to much weight. The mantra ’You are what you eat’, ‘fat makes you fat’. Who is to blame? I don’t think in those early days anyone was. The culture at the time, maybe. Those early health care workers, our parents, were only acting on the knowledge they had.

Following diagnosis, yes, the advice for me as an obese T2, was not helpful at all. Starchy carbs with every meal, then when that made things worse the only solution offered bariatric surgery. No blame apportioned to the HCPs making those decisions for me. They don’t have the time or the inclination, in the main ,to research other ways. Had I not done my own research, and found my own, individual pathto management, then I would only have myself to blame.
Not eady, though, and we all need a bit of help and guidance from time to time from others who are on a similar path.

Thank you for a lovely reply. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word blame but it was only after reading another post where there seemed to be someone in distress and I was reading that they blamed themselves. I know a lady who is quite happy to keep eating carb loaded foods, lots of sweet stuff etc. she is very overweight and has had toes amputated and she’s on lots of meds. Her way of dealing with it is “give me more meds”, she’s not accepting responsibility which I believe most of us are. My post is to try to say “there is no blame”, stuff happens and we deal with it. You are spot on, I am now retired Thank you so much again

 

[Pipp]

Thank you for a lovely reply. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word blame but it was only after reading another post where there seemed to be someone in distress and I was reading that they blamed themselves. I know a lady who is quite happy to keep eating carb loaded foods, lots of sweet stuff etc. she is very overweight and has had toes amputated and she’s on lots of meds. Her way of dealing with it is “give me more meds”, she’s not accepting responsibility which I believe most of us are. My post is to try to say “there is no blame”, stuff happens and we deal with it. You are spot on, I am now retired Thank you so much again

Sadly, I think that many of us are often made to feel, particularly those with T 2 , that we have somehow been responsible for ‘bringing this on ourselves’. It is the portrayal in the media, that is responsible for that.
Of course, there is then the implication by those that take notice of such sloppy reporting media that all diabetes is due to ‘overindulgence’ and so those with all types of diabetes are stigmatised.

 

[JenniferM55]

I've always been bonny, then I carried 'puppy fat', then I became a 'fatty' as my brothers used to call me. The school doctor (who was absolutely huge) told my mother to put honey in my tea instead of sugar ???

I did lose all the extra weight in my teens thanks to a pamphlet my mother got from somewhere, probably our GP, which basically said to go lightly with potatoes, bread, cakes... that diet advice absolutely worked. Then TV and radio got involved, we had the 'naughty but nice' adverts regarding cream, the brainwashing got started!

Best we follow the money to proportion blame. Slimming became a huge money spinner, I know cos I think I've tried them all over the years.

If only I'd have stuck to the advice from that little pamphlet of my mother's!

 

[Spirit01]

I've always been bonny, then I carried 'puppy fat', then I became a 'fatty' as my brothers used to call me. The school doctor (who was absolutely huge) told my mother to put honey in my tea instead of sugar ???

I did lose all the extra weight in my teens thanks to a pamphlet my mother got from somewhere, probably our GP, which basically said to go lightly with potatoes, bread, cakes... that diet advice absolutely worked. Then TV and radio got involved, we had the 'naughty but nice' adverts regarding cream, the brainwashing got started!

Best we follow the money to proportion blame. Slimming became a huge money spinner, I know cos I think I've tried them all over the years.

If only I'd have stuck to the advice from that little pamphlet of my mother's!

Ha ha bless you. I can remember a lot and as stated by one of the other replies we had Rose Hip syrup but I also remember big spoons of malt. Time moves on & I’m certainly in the “in my days” era. I’m sure in years to come the advice we take now will be considered incorrect. I hope I haven’t upset anyone today with my posts, I’m trying so hard to offer comfort in the way I find comfort not just with diabetes but most things in life. A little while ago I suffered dreadfully with loneliness because I live in a village where most people are busy during the day and my dear wife who is younger than me still works. I could have just sat here thinking and encouraging loneliness or I could as I have turn it to my advantage of helping others even more than I already did. I just can’t emphasise enough that this is my diabetes and I’ll deal with it in my way but any tricks and tips are always gratefully received. I’m like a classic car I suppose I know what to do but always good when someone says or you read ……… Thank you for your lovely reply

 

[Lamont D]

It was a geopolitical decision, driven by the major powers particularly after WWII.
The population boom predicted by the boffins, that needed feeding, new strains of grains, new methods of quick and preserving food. Good communication, farming improvements, americanisation of the globe.
And it had to be cheap, because of the prospect of huge poverty!

So don't blame yourself.

I have a rare condition, no cure, but for ten years, I have controlled it as best as I can.
Along with other minor conditions, I am doing well. Of course age is catching up.
But I do the best I can with help, and I have the knowledge to keep doing it!
No one expects anything else!

Best wishes.

 

[Spirit01]

It was a geopolitical decision, driven by the major powers particularly after WWII.
The population boom predicted by the boffins, that needed feeding, new strains of grains, new methods of quick and preserving food. Good communication, farming improvements, americanisation of the globe.
And it had to be cheap, because of the prospect of huge poverty!

So don't blame yourself.

I have a rare condition, no cure, but for ten years, I have controlled it as best as I can.
Along with other minor conditions, I am doing well. Of course age is catching up.
But I do the best I can with help, and I have the knowledge to keep doing it!
No one expects anything else!

Best wishes.

Lovely informative reply, thank you

 

[andromache]

I've always been bonny, then I carried 'puppy fat', then I became a 'fatty' as my brothers used to call me. The school doctor (who was absolutely huge) told my mother to put honey in my tea instead of sugar ???

I did lose all the extra weight in my teens thanks to a pamphlet my mother got from somewhere, probably our GP, which basically said to go lightly with potatoes, bread, cakes... that diet advice absolutely worked. Then TV and radio got involved, we had the 'naughty but nice' adverts regarding cream, the brainwashing got started!

Best we follow the money to proportion blame. Slimming became a huge money spinner, I know cos I think I've tried them all over the years.

If only I'd have stuck to the advice from that little pamphlet of my mother's!

Yep. I’m old enough for my late mother (then middle-aged) and her friends to have known in the 1960s what to do when their waist-bands were getting a little tight: cut out sweets, bread and potatoes until their clothes fitted properly again. How we came to forget that for decades is still a mystery to me.

 

[MrsA2]

Yep. I’m old enough for my late mother (then middle-aged) and her friends to have known in the 1960s what to do when their waist-bands were getting a little tight: cut out sweets, bread and potatoes until their clothes fitted properly again. How we came to forget that for decades is still a mystery to me.

The marketing and advertising budgets in the billions of £££ probably had something to do with it
A finger of fudge is just enough
Mars helps you work rest and play
Can you eat 3 weetabix?

Cake for everyday not just special occasions, biscuits with every drink, fizzy drinks, puddings in handy pot sizes and snacks 24/7

It was all so easy, normal and convenient. How could it be harmful?

 

[Lamont D]

Yep. I’m old enough for my late mother (then middle-aged) and her friends to have known in the 1960s what to do when their waist-bands were getting a little tight: cut out sweets, bread and potatoes until their clothes fitted properly again. How we came to forget that for decades is still a mystery to me.

My football coach, when young, told me to keep fitter was to cut out spuds, bread and beer!
Something I told the lads I coached.
But my mum was Yorkshire and the wife both loved roast dinner!
I just couldn't win!

 

[MissMuffett]

Loving reading all these posts, thank you @Spirit01 for starting the discussion.
As a child and teenager I was always the ideal weight. Then met my husband and married, started to cook our meals and that’s when I started putting weight on as I was in charge of my eating habits. I got fatter and husband remained at a 32“ waist all his life and at 6’4 we used to call him a stick insect . So are hormones and genes to blame?

 

[MissMuffett]

Yep. I’m old enough for my late mother (then middle-aged) and her friends to have known in the 1960s what to do when their waist-bands were getting a little tight: cut out sweets, bread and potatoes until their clothes fitted properly again. How we came to forget that for decades is still a mystery to me.

Ansel Keyes telling the world that fat and not carbs were part of the blame and attributed to the diabetes pandemic IMO. He cherry picked ‘research’ publishing his hypothesis that the low fat diet was key (pun intended). The American Heart Association adopted his advice and so the world followed. Any researcher and scientists that dared to go against his advice had their funding withdrawn and their careers were destroyed! Quite shocking when you read about it.

 

[JenniferM55]

Any researcher and scientists that dared to go against his advice had their funding withdrawn and their careers were destroyed! Quite shocking when you read about it.

Yes, Professor Yudkin for one, he wrote a book called 'Pure White and Deadly', obviously he was talking about sugar. He was ridiculed and trashed. Shocking in many ways.