I don’t buy into calories.It doesn't have to put you into a deficit. You can be in deficit if you want to, you can eat to your BMR (don't get me started on BMR calculators!), or you can forget calories completely and just eat to levels your body indicates it needs through hunger/appetite/fullness.
For me personally, I combine a bit of all three approaches, depending on what I'm doing that day, how I feel, and a few other factors.
The "calories in, calories out" model (CICO) relies on someone knowing their BMR (I did warn you not to get me started, now you pay the price with having a long post in reply!I don’t buy into calories.
I’m not sure what flamed means but deadly for T1? Can injecting too much insulin be deadly? Too little? Running high sugars? Well those were all things I did before keto, keto has been fantastic for me, my blood sugars are amazing and my insulin use has been drastically reduced, it has been ages since I was hypo. Life changing is the best thing since….. nevermindI'll get flamed for saying this on here but I'm going to say it anyway. The OP is T2 so without medical qualifications I'd probably say a keto diet is ok. But this is why I left this forum for many months: keto is a fad diet. I'm sticking to that. From what I've read people (with T2) can have great success with it. Good. Ketosis, however, can be deadly for people with other types of diabetes. These people on Reddit are idiots
Not many people agree with my view and I won't mention it again after this. I know people on here have had great success with Keto and that's great.I don't think anyone is going to have a go at you for the way you've expressed your concerns here. I don't agree with your concerns, as some other replies have outlined, but expressing concerns in the way you have shouldn't be an issue.
As for keto being a "fad" diet, I don't think the high level principles of it are a fad (they're actually based on a significant amount of science imo), but some of the lower level aspects that some elements of the keto community promote definitely are in my opinion. These lower level aspects generally have zero science to support them, for example extended fasts for a week or more, or water fasts which are just outright dangerous without very specific knowledge and monitoring. However, keto generally, from a stance of limiting carb intake and reducing processed foods to a minimum, is a sound dietary approach in my view.
"Keto" or ketogenic diet (but for the purpose of weight loss instead of epilepsy seizures reduction)[71][104][105]:
A 2020 review looked at a very low carbohydrate ketogenic diet that was high in fat but low in protein. It found that it was an effective means for weight loss in those who are overweight or obese, yielding an average weight loss of 10 kg over four weeks, with maintenance of the weight loss for up to two years. However, concerns about serum sodium levels led the authors to propose the diet only be used in "selected" people, and under strict medical supervision.[74]
In 2021 the American Heart Association issued a scientific statement on dietary guidance to improve cardiovascular health which noted that "there is insufficient evidence to support any existing popular or fad diets such as the ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting to promote heart health"
I didn't mean to bad mouth people, I was referring specifically and only to a diet (not people who choose to follow it). My deadly comment wasn't hyperboleIs fad a different way of saying “it’s too hard for me”? Is it for everyone? No! am I touchy about people bad mouthing keto? Yep! Let people try it and decide for themselves without “it can be deadly” comments (advice? Lol)
I don't know the biochemistry well enough to give a reasonable answer. I'm responding to @Antje77 as well here so am keeping this response kind of general. I tried the keto diet (even though it's classified as a fad diet unless for epilepsy control under medical supervision, and don't blame me for that label please, it's what the literature says). For the last year I've eaten low carb (mostly less than 70g carbs a day) but have recently started having sandwiches again for lunch. I didn't find anything too hard, in fact I found it very easy because I don't like foods heavy with carbs in general. The problem I encountered, and not everyone will encounter this I suppose, is that I monitor my ketones as well as BSL. BSL except for the last few week has been 98% TIR. My problem was that ketones were consistently in the 2.0 mmol/L range even though BSL was ok -- say 6.0 because that's my average. Now, most of what I read says that you have to have high BSL as well as high ketones (2.0 is high-ish) for DKA to become a problem, but is that true? My endo certainly didn't like my ketones being 2.0ish. I did specify that this probably isn't an issue for T2s. I was on fixed doses of insulin for a while and that may have influenced things, I don't know. But when the issue of elevated ketones came up I was not on fixed doses and my BSL was normal. Nearly everything I read suggests that DKA is only a problem if both BSL and ketones are high, but is that true?I’m not sure what flamed means but deadly for T1? Can injecting too much insulin be deadly? Too little? Running high sugars? Well those were all things I did before keto, keto has been fantastic for me, my blood sugars are amazing and my insulin use has been drastically reduced, it has been ages since I was hypo. Life changing is the best thing since….. nevermind
Is fad a different way of saying “it’s too hard for me”? Is it for everyone? No! am I touchy about people bad mouthing keto? Yep! Let people try it and decide for themselves without “it can be deadly” comments (advice? Lol)
Despite my enthusiasm for low carb generally, and keto specifically, I get some of what you're saying in regards to the fad diet thing.Not many people agree with my view and I won't mention it again after this. I know people on here have had great success with Keto and that's great.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diets#Fad_diets
Since anyone can edit Wikipedia perhaps we should. We could add "diabetes control" to the list of exceptions, for example, but I can't find a reliable source
I knew I shouldn't have mentioned it but those are not my words although I may edit it later today
I hope I haven't been misunderstood. I have no issue at all with low carb eating and until recently that is the way I ate (I now have two slices of bread for lunch most days so can't say I'm a low carb eater anymore, but until recently when I added the lunch sandwich to my diet I was definitely low carb. Apart from that bread at lunch I still am). I have no problem with that and think it's a good idea. What I have a problem with is the Reddittors who insist that you eat so few carbs that your body goes into ketosis. There's no (zero) evidence that getting most of your energy this way is beneficial except for certain medical conditions (e.g. epilepsy and under medical supervision) that I can find. Although I wasn't specifically aiming to be keto my daily intake of carbs was low enough that my ketones were at what my endocrinologist called a dangerous level. My BSL was normal. This is one reason I added bread back to my diet. I trust my endo more than I trust random people on Reddit. I've seen on this forum comments saying that as long as your BSL is normal it doesn't matter what level your ketones are at but my endo says otherwise and I believe him and even if I didn't believe him I can find evidence of it (euglycemic diabetic ketoacidosis). If people want to restrict their carbs then I think that's probably a good idea (I'm not a Dr). If people wan't to restrict them so much that they're following a diet called Keto then I will caution them that it's not without risks (I'm not a Dr). And I will call it a fad diet because that's what the literature calls itDespite my enthusiasm for low carb generally, and keto specifically, I get some of what you're saying in regards to the fad diet thing.
When I come here to this forum and see the practical side of low carb / keto, it's not a fad in my opinion. It's a very practical, I'd argue simpler, approach to blood glucose management and weight loss, focusing on the high level low carb / keto principles - some of which most diets recommend and even some medical bodies (e.g. reducing processed foods).
When I go to Reddit, wider social media, or keto specific forums/sites on the internet, I completely see some of what you're saying. Everyone thinks they're a doctor on these resources. Everyone thinks they have simple answers to complex medical conditions and these simple answers are always an indicator of the poster's bias and personal preferences. There's out and out dangerous advice posted every day, people attempt to diagnose without any medical qualification at all, they idolise specific "doctors" who promote agendas that suit people's bias without any relevant medical qualification in said area (I'm talking the Dr Berg types here - the scientologist chiropractor who claims to be an expert on cholesterol and cardiac issues), and there's a general preaching of keto "mantras" in response to any given condition/issue/problem. I'd go one further than "fad" to describe keto when it's discussed on these platforms - it's a cult. Deviation from the keto purists' dream or keto doctrine is punished with aggressive replies, or cries of "you need to watch [insert unqualified "doctor" name here] and stop being a sheep!" 80% of what I see posted on these platforms is prime fad diet territory - claiming simple solutions, promoting unsustainable methods/practices, and doing so with little/no scientific basis or benefit.
A few years back I was listening to Steve Wright in the afternoon on digital at work. (Radio 2?)I do unfortunately recognize myself in some of your non flattering comments, I have no idea what Reddit is nor do I look at any social media except this forum, I don’t have Facebook or twister etc but I am a fan of certain YouTube doctors (I won’t link my favourite as it proves you right about my cult lol) I suppose I believe so completely in keto (and fasting) that I am sensitive about it, is it possible I’m finding research that fits my personal experience? Yes, I will try harder to see a down side to keto despite myself.
Sorry if my post was a bit blunt, didn't intend it to be, and I'm definitely not encouraging anyone to look unnecessarily for downsides.I do unfortunately recognize myself in some of your non flattering comments, I have no idea what Reddit is nor do I look at any social media except this forum, I don’t have Facebook or twister etc but I am a fan of certain YouTube doctors (I won’t link my favourite as it proves you right about my cult lol) I suppose I believe so completely in keto (and fasting) that I am sensitive about it, is it possible I’m finding research that fits my personal experience? Yes, I will try harder to see a down side to keto despite myself.
Well, here's a puzzle for you. Not at my most recent visit to hospital but the time before I was put on the "diabetic menu". For breakfast I wasn't allowed to have the scrambled eggs that I ordered, they gave me porridge and orange juice instead. I was not allowed to have the roast beef for lunch that I'd ordered (I can't remember but I think they gave me potato salad or something). For dinner I was not allowed to have the chicken curry that I ordered, they substituted it with pasta in some kind of white sauce, a bread roll with margarine (butter is bad!) and creme brule for dessert. I kicked up a huge stink and got put back onto the normal diet so I could order low carb meals but it was a struggle. Who's to blame? First there is not supposed to be a "diabetic diet" in Australia -- we're meant to follow the normal dietary guidelines that every other person is supposed to eat. The problem there (and I studied nutrition at Uni so have read the guidelines many, many times) is that they're *very* high in carbs. One meal (e.g. yucky pasta in white sauce) is more carbs than I'd normally in a day. Everything is high in carbs. There is no RDI per se, but they suggest 65% of total daily energy to come from carbs. So, I've never followed the guidelines because I simply don't like platefuls of pasta, mashed potato, rice for breakfast, etc etc etc. So who's to blame? I don't know but I think the national guidelines have a lot to answer for
Please don't blame particular types of food for causing diabetes by referring to them as 'diabetes on a plate'.they were showing how Kendal cake is made. Oh my days, that stuff has to be diabetes in a bar
Have you read the content of the whole thread or just picked up on this little bit ?Please don't blame particular types of food for causing diabetes by referring to them as 'diabetes on a plate'.
For the majority of people, who aren't prone to develop diabetes, they can handle carbs quite well, and they may live to a ripe old age without a hint of blood sugar issues on a carb heavy diet with the regular addition of sugary treats.
We have enough people believing we're all to blame for our own diabetes by indulging in sweets, no need to promote this belief ourselves.
Dumplings.. we called em through mum & older sister, “dough boys.”I was watching TV this morning and they were showing how Kendal cake is made. Oh my days, that stuff has to be diabetes in a bar if you eat it regularly. I’ve had a lovely beef stew for 2 days now and have to confess I just had to have a couple of small dumplings but there was lots of veg. I had to smile because I remember my dear mum, Nan, aunties saying about meat pudding, dumplings, and anything made with flour & suet “eat up boy, you need to eat stuff that will stick to your chest”. Ah bless them lol. I can’t think I ever knew exactly what it meant but as I got older it certainly stuck to my waist
Jam roly poly, plum duff, those were the days . I can’t remember the last time I tasted a steak & kidney pudding followed by a treacle pudding, delicious. Can’t touch it now but the occasional dumpling will certainly pass my lips. Nostalgia & humour is a wonderful gift that I fully embrace. Thank you for your lovely reply which made me chuckleDumplings.. we called em through mum & older sister, “dough boys.”
Stodgy stew weights. Seemed like the size of a “scotch egg”:when I was a kid.. They were “gert lush,” back in the day..
I’m seeing a sense of irony? Once apon a time they where “balance” options.. (in the care free days.)Have you read the content of the whole thread or just picked up on this little bit ?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?