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Who’s to blame ?
- Thread starter Spirit01
- Start Date
I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. If I have novorapid without food it most definitely "works". It might not work like it's supposed to (I'll go hypo) but it does work
Dancing Badger
Well-Known Member
Spirit01
Well-Known Member
Absolutely fabulous. Forget Metformin give me laughter every time
It was meant to be semi humorous. Because HCP's often think that diabetics need to eat enough carbs to 'match' their doses of medications - rather than that the doses of medication be matched to the carbs being eaten!
OK.. My father was T2. Prescribed metformin & oddly given a meter by the GP.
The last 8 years of his life he developed vascular Dementia. My mum was his career. I lived 10 miles away so would do a round trip early in the morning to check in on them & again after work on my way home? & most the weekends too.
His BG levels were not good. When I took a look at the diet, my mum had used the same dietary advice we were given when I was a kid??
Not her fault…
We did manage to tweak his diet & the doctor pulled him off the metformin.
That’s the personal stuff out the way. I joined this forum not long after my father’s demise.
Then I’m seeing bemused T2 accounts not understanding why they can’t get numbers down on similar advice to the above in some cases.. uncanny!?
I hope this helps.
I'm sorry if I brought up bad memories, that was not my intention and if I did I sincerely apologise. My father died in 2019 and I'm still not over grieving. Edit: I won't ever be
I don't even know what type of diabetes I have -- officially I am type 1 but some doctors call me type 3c (that's not an official diagnosis in Au though, so type 1 I am)
What I meant to say was that when I'm in hospital they treat me as if I'm type 2. I personally think that the treatment for type 1 (3c, whatever) is very different to type 2. So I was interested in the different treatments
Again, I apologise if what I said was wrong. You and your Mum, of course, did the best you could based on medical advice. My point was that in my opinion T1 and T2 treatment should be very different
Ellen the melon
Newbie
It's one of those cathartic threads, plus blame is a very wide topic area which is open to many perspectives. I love threads like this and so does everyone else by the looks of it!
With the other points in your post, I'm pretty hardcore low carb at the moment, keto much of the time, and have only once gone over 25g of carbs in 3 months. I wouldn't have your lunch today, it just doesn't fit with my goals at the moment. However, as I said on another thread recently, I've only been at this 3 months, so what do I know! Maybe next week I'll have a blow out, or next month. It would seem foolish to assume I'll never slip or just want to eat what I want, purely based on 3 months of a diet.
As part of my research for low carb / keto, I've come across many takes that I find strange. On Reddit, there was a guy posting on the keto sub, saying it was his wedding soon and he'd had an argument with his fiancé because he wasn't going to have any of the wedding cake. He didn't know what to do. He wasn't diabetic, he just didn't want to "break ketosis". In my mind, it's very simple - it's your wedding, eat the **** cake!
It's easy to get caught up on things like this, especially for us diabetics. Controlling blood glucose requires a slightly obsessive approach to food, as does a low carb diet. However, your post is a reminder that life is there for living. Despite my dedicated low carbing, I'll have a slice of cake on my wife and kids birthdays. I'll have gravy at Christmas. I'll celebrate special occasions without ruining them by obsessing over carbs.
In your first post you said you "didn't want to die from nothing". My view is slightly different, where if I'm lucky enough to get that "deathbed moment", where my life flashes before my eyes, I want those memories to be of times I shared with loved ones and all the happy times, not of me missing out on experiences, conversations with restaurant staff about swapping carb items, and obsessing over the carb intake stat in my food tracker!
In short - not every day, not even every month, but eat the **** cake. Enjoy life now and again - otherwise what's the point of living longer!
I'll get flamed for saying this on here but I'm going to say it anyway. The OP is T2 so without medical qualifications I'd probably say a keto diet is ok. But this is why I left this forum for many months: keto is a fad diet. I'm sticking to that. From what I've read people (with T2) can have great success with it. Good. Ketosis, however, can be deadly for people with other types of diabetes. These people on Reddit are idiots
No need to apologise.
He died in the company of his wife & his son at home.I was just expressing my take on the advice that T2s get given & it equates with some of the advise as a T1 I had. Salad was for “hippies” in their eyes. (I kid you not.) Have a baked spud & bang beans on it. Don’t use butter. Oddly, they also had an adversity to “wholemeal bread?” “Hippy food” again. I suppose.
It was a messed up message to give to a young kid. Lol, all the mums in the waiting room also seemed very defensive? We were all just “shoegazing.” & every now & then an adult would blurt out almost Tourettes like, “ very well controlled..”
It felt more like some sort of “rehab.”
By the way. Eggs & gammon tonight.
Ketosis is not the same as ketoacidosis, and there are many T1's who find they have excellent control on keto.
Just because something doesn't work for you doesn't make it a fad, or dangerous for all T1's.
I think when you were trying keto, you did it on fixed doses of insulin, calculated on a high carb diet. You didn't adjust your insulin to the food, and that's where it got dangerous.
It's wonderful for people who do very well on keto that it works for them, and it's equally wonderful if other ways of eating work for others.
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There are different ways to enjoy cake…
My sister had a skyscraper of a cake that collapsed. Oh she laughed.
Wife & I both agreed there actually should be “cake.” & no one dresses like a lampshade..
But it did have a bit of a mishap picking it up from a baker who was more used to the traditional..
The guests said it was lovely.
I appreciate you know the difference between nutritional ketosis & ketoacidosis.
Your diet works for you. & you ain’t getting a “burn.”
Do you still take creon?
Here is a bit of history that may throw some light on why some may feel it may not be right for T1s.
To summarise, before the invention of exogenous insulin they died anyway on this diet. It just prolonged the inevitable. BGs would never be stabilised without the “slin..” agonising way to go, due to “DKA.”
Before Banting: Treatments for Diabetes in the Pre-Insulin Era
Frederick Banting came up with the idea which led to the discovery of insulin right here at Banting House in 1920. Although the idea of insulin was new, the effects of diabetes were not – for many …
bantinghousenhs.ca
Someone correct me if I’m wrong. A modern keto diet does not put one into a calorie deficit like the one in the link provided.?
Really? Well put like that, I know that I will die whether I go into ketosis or not - everybody dies eventually!
Seriously, there have been 2 events where dietary ketosis, fasting and exercise was studied in the real world.
Several diabetics (mixture of T2's and T1's) and 1 non-diabetic ex-olympic athlete, all already in ketosis ran/walked 100 miles in 5 days without food. The T1's did take insulin as required - basal doses, and one T1 needed to take 2 glucose tablets due to CGM warning of possible overnight hypo.
Tests showed none lost muscle mass and all both felt good at end and said they would do it again.
I posted results, both in this forum and in 'blue forum' at the time.
The reaction in the 'blue forum' was just like yours - all except 2 of the T1's were confusing Dietary Ketosis with Ketoacidosis.
I understand that for some T1s keto minimises the chances of a severe hypo as there is less insulin (if any) needed to bolus for carbs and therefore less chance of an error involving miscalculating the insulin required.
As a T2 I love what keto does to my body but I hate the food. I still do it from time to time, but low carb is easier for me.
As a T2 I love what keto does to my body but I hate the food. I still do it from time to time, but low carb is easier for me.
It doesn't have to put you into a deficit. You can be in deficit if you want to, you can eat to your BMR (don't get me started on BMR calculators!), or you can forget calories completely and just eat to levels your body indicates it needs through hunger/appetite/fullness.
For me personally, I combine a bit of all three approaches, depending on what I'm doing that day, how I feel, and a few other factors.
I don't think anyone is going to have a go at you for the way you've expressed your concerns here. I don't agree with your concerns, as some other replies have outlined, but expressing concerns in the way you have shouldn't be an issue.
As for keto being a "fad" diet, I don't think the high level principles of it are a fad (they're actually based on a significant amount of science imo), but some of the lower level aspects that some elements of the keto community promote definitely are in my opinion. These lower level aspects generally have zero science to support them, for example extended fasts for a week or more, or water fasts which are just outright dangerous without very specific knowledge and monitoring. However, keto generally, from a stance of limiting carb intake and reducing processed foods to a minimum, is a sound dietary approach in my view.
