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Who are you voting for in the general election 2017?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by notafanofsugar, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    I remember writing an essay way back in 1980. The question was to find an economic policy that would stop boom and bust happening. So hard to write without the internet as a resource, but my conclusion was that the best policy would be to simply level out the peaks and troughs a little (yep spending on infrastructure was one thing I included), not try to eradicate them entirely as we would end up in a worse mess with a longer recession period and no one having the feel good factor of the boom, therefore confidence wouldn't pick up as quickly as in the boom and bust days. I was the only one in my group who thought that trying to stop boom and bust altogether was a bad idea.
     
  2. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think you can only try to use Government intervention to even out the peaks and troughs. Silly for Brown to claim he'd ended the business cycle.
     
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  3. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is the only sensible stance at the start of negotiations. If you are trying to sell your car to a garage, the only thing that stops them offering a bad deal is that you will walk away. Starting by saying you are prepared to accept whatever they offer is not going to end well.
     
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  4. BridgetteAtkinson

    BridgetteAtkinson · Member

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    And education is on its knees, well done SNP
     
  5. BridgetteAtkinson

    BridgetteAtkinson · Member

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    No hope for this country
     
  6. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In any negotiation, not saying what your asking means they offer you nothing.
     
  7. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is nonsense. Anyone would struggle to get a good deal under the circumstances. Remember that we are going to spend the next two years trying to negotiate a deal which is WORSE than the one we have now. The other 27 cannot allow anything else.
     
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  8. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't aware that Corbyn had even been to Saudi Arabia.
     
  9. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Privatisation has happened under both parties.
     
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  10. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    True. It's a dismal thought.
     
  11. Prem51

    Prem51 Type 2 · Expert

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    That means you shouldn't be voting Conservative. Thatcher's Government supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Soviets and the elected Afghan Government.
    Thatcher welcomed a Mujahideen leader to 10 Downing Street, saying he was a 'freedom fighter'. He led a mujahideen group who blew up two Russian planes at Kabul airport. The planes were carrying Russian children suffering from leukaemia after the Chernobyl meltdown, who were invited to Afghanistan to recuperate. 22 were killed.
    The Thatcher Goverment also covertly aided the mujahideen with training and arms, as did the Reagan US Government.
    After the bloody civil war, following the Soviet withdrawal and the overthrow of the Afghan Government, the mujahideen split into warring groups, one of which, the Taliban took control. Another faction, including Osama Bin Laden formed Al Quaeda.
     
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  12. midnightrider

    midnightrider Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    'Smoothing out peaks and troughs' can be doe to some extent though has never been tried. It involves running a surplus during a period of growth which gives spare cash to cut taxes and in a deficit when there is a recession. Never been tried as any government will continue to run a deficit during periods of growth leaving ' no money left' when the inevitable downturn occurs.

    Imagine what the media would say if a government were running a surplus (i.e. not spending all the taxes they received) when there were queues in A&E and some people using food banks etc. Unfortunately the gov at the time would rapidly find a surplus politically impossible.

    Credit cards are great at providing some wiggle room if your finances take a downturn, but spending up to the limit during good times leaves 'no money left' when it is needed.
     
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  13. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The negotiations haven't started yet! Presumably as a starting point they will say they want all the benefits of membership without the disadvantages. Apart from hints of a big bill, the EU have not said what they want either.
     
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  14. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Negotiating with the EU will be a game of poker. Bluff and counter bluff. Mrs May knows that and is keeping her hand close to her chest. Mr. Corbyn doesn't or he wouldn't have shown his hand, done for political gain and not for the good of the country.
     
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  15. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes I totally agree with all of your post. It may have worked back in the 80's but wouldn't work now. The media has a lot to answer for, and people will no longer vote for 'jam tomorrow'. Politics always was a game of short term policies to crowd please and gain votes, when perhaps medium/long-term would have been more beneficial to everyone.
     
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  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    And isn't that what Mrs. May is trying to do now? Balance the economy as best she can, making tough decisions, all for long term gain.
     
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  17. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes, that's the sensible option, but probably not the popular one.
     
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  18. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    It's an interesting
    I think they've been pretty open about what they want.

    1. Agree the terms of the break up - see these two documents for an immense amount of detail on that, and a very clear approach as to how negotiations will take place from an EU perspective, and what needs to be agreed before any further negotiation proceedings can take place.

    2. Further agreement on anything else is dependent on progression of these items being far enough along for a reasonable conclusion to be reached. And those two documents looking at Citizen's Rights and the Bill are extremely detailed.

    That's what the EU wants. Anything else that the EU might consider, or more, that the UK wants, i.e. Trade, Open Skies, Origination of Goods, Financial Passporting, etc, are contingent on agreement of the above. That's a pretty clear opening gambit.

    Saying that you will accept the worse possible deal, when it is clearly known and the impacts can be calculated gives absolutely no incentive to come to a deal either. Unlike selling your car, which you can always keep, should the garage give you an offer you don't like and not come to an agreement, leaving on the worst terms means that you leave in a pretty grim state with a rather large "Treaty Deficit" that you have to start all over again with. And that stands for relations to both the EU and the Rest of the World.

    And any fun with the Citizen's Rights in the UK statements is a bit of a red herring. The UK has a lot of citizens in EU countries that are in the same bucket as EU citizens here, meaning that we have as much skin in that game as the EU does. So if we walk away with no deal, well, yes, they have to be repatriated as illegal immigrants (something that I don't think our parliament would agree to uphold, btw) and all other European countries, most of which have a far greater requirement to register locally when moving from abroad, can do exactly the same thing.
     
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  19. Dan87

    Dan87 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    The questions for me around the NHS and this election have been:

    - Which party will fund the NHS the best? Manifestos: Investment next 5 years - Labour over 30Billion, Tories around 8Billion.
    - Which party am I more likely to get the £2,500-4,000 funding for an insulin pump under, later this year?
    - Which party is currently in power and responsible for the budgets which have left some type 1s and many type 2s being denied test strips?
    - Which party has sold off the land around hospitals to private companies so you have to pay £3-5 approx. every time you visit a hospital? Which party has the aim of getting back a situation where all staff and patients can park for free?
     
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  20. Jamesuk9

    Jamesuk9 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Elections are a family occasion: after a brief overview of democracy the kids are treated to 1 hour rants of why Tories are b*stards.

    On a serious note, anyone who genuinely believes the rhetoric around terrorist sympathiser and all the other poison aimed at Corbyn needs to do two things:

    1: Stop believing everything you read in the Daily Mail and Sun.
    2: Educate yourself!

    I cannot comprehend how anyone could even consider supporting a govt that actively sells arms to a country that arms ISIS and supports and encourages Wahhabism,

    Turkeys voting for christmas, I can draw no other conclusion.
     
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    #220 Jamesuk9, Jun 8, 2017 at 2:20 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2017
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