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Wholemeal (Brown) bread or Wholegrain bread?

Just read the label - I tend to go for any brown bread which is less than 40g carbs per 100g. Usually the darker and more seeds, the better it is GI wise. :) Hope that helps.
 
Hi last month I puchased this bread and noticed the slice is 13.8 and it is thick after eating the sandwich, carb counting and the correc? amount ofinsulin later on my BS shot up to over 16

When I started to investigate other breads of the same type,weight, carbs, per slice I couldn't find anything else that is about the same in grams or carbs. When I looked in my Carbs and calorie book for people with diabetes, a seeded slice of similar bread same weight of 44g the carb is 21which was big shock to me and I wrote Hovis,
Click to expand...
RRB,
I just had a look on their website:
If this is the right bread? http://www.hovisbakery.co.uk/our-range/ ... /wholemeal
They have it as having 19.2gm carb for a slice from a large loaf and 14.4gm carb for a slice from a small loaf.
 
Phoenix: OH MY GOSH! I just checked and that is NOT THE INFO ON THE WRAPPER!!! I wonder when/why they changed this?!

It says 31.4g / 100g and 13.8 / per slice. The assumed by 'slice' they meant the slice in that packet?! (Either way, the maths would be wrong! (twice!?))

Now I'm going to have to work out my morning insullin/carb ratio again?! Thanks Hovis...

Reminds me of when Burger Chains got in trouble in the 90's for giving diabetics regular soft drinks by mistake sometimes...

I am suspicious as to how/why Hovis could have made such an 'error' on their packaging...

Well done Robin :thumbup:
 
kt78 said:
Phoenix: OH MY GOSH! I just checked and that is NOT THE INFO ON THE WRAPPER!!! I wonder when/why they changed this?!

It says 31.4g / 100g and 13.8 / per slice. The assumed by 'slice' they meant the slice in that packet?! (Either way, the maths would be wrong! (twice!?))

Now I'm going to have to work out my morning insullin/carb ratio again?! Thanks Hovis...

Reminds me of when Burger Chains got in trouble in the 90's for giving diabetics regular soft drinks by mistake sometimes...

I am suspicious as to how/why Hovis could have made such an 'error' on their packaging...

Well done Robin :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks phoenix and Kt. An update on the Hovis saga.
At the weekend I had a look around at some similar 800 grams loaves and I could not find one loaf of bread with similar carbs!!!!!!!! for that weight, thickness or carbs. Today I photocopied the granary bread page from my diabetic carb and calorie book and sent it off ( for comparison) with another letter with the other bread carb values to the man from customer services(Tim) who telephoned me last week. All along my gut feeling has been that this Hovis bread's carbs of 13.8 is WRONG and as you say Kt the maths do not add up and potentially could lead to someone else having an even higher BS of what mine was , 16.3. I know it may be a battle with, but I wont give up until I find out the truth. I'm like a dog with a bone :wink: but I hope this one doesn't 'get loss' in transit like the last correspondence :roll: strange that.

I did add in my letter that I will take it further if necessary,I wont let them get away with it. If I am the one that is wrong, I will, at least admit it.
I will keep you posted guys.

Best wishes RRB
 
If you have the wrapper with the 'wrong' info and a printout from the website with what seems more sensible, then perhaps Trading Standards are the people to contact . I think they are the organisation that are supposed to police labelling regulations.
 
I have 2 wrappers! (I'm not a hoarder, just have a loaf in the freezer, lol)

Let me know if you would like me to contribute.

It was too good to be true...
 
kt78 said:
I have 2 wrappers! (I'm not a hoarder, just have a loaf in the freezer, lol)

Let me know if you would like me to contribute.

It was too good to be true...
Click to expand...

Thats brillant kt. In October, with my first lot of correspondence I mistakenly sent the wrapper and forgot to photocopy it, for later reference :( I could of kicked myself for not doing that :thumbdown: really annoyed with myself.

Are they the 800gr size?

It would be great if you could contribute in some way kt :thumbup: that would show it's just not me that appears to think the carbs math is wrong, definitely not a Carol Vorderman equastion by Hovis then :wink:

I can't eat 'normal' bread anymore and out of principal (at the time) I didn't buy any Hovis products (because no one had contacted me about my negative query)

I think because my query is a medical one and could ofpotentionally had a different outcome( Ketones, admitted to hospital) they could be running scared and will, I believe, try to get out of it, I hope I'm wrong though.

Thanks again kt

All the best RRB
 
Hey RRB!

Yep they are the 800g size loaves!

I remember when I read the Walsh book, being shocked that the US regulations only stipulated a 30% margin of error. (Coincidentally, I'm sure, the same carb difference here...)

I thought we must be better controlled here in the UK/Europe, surely?! I was surprised by what Phoenix said about our system: that it had no numbers at all!

Me/my recycling are with you all the way, PM me if you want to.

Power to the People! :clap:

KT
 
Hi all an update on the Hovis 7 seeded bread saga.

I telephoned customer service Tim, he was rather vague about my enqiury, but eventually the penny dropped and he realised who I was. I still had to go through the same thing again and asked him if he recieved my recent correspondence which I posted on Monday, the 12th. NO, he hadn't, so he said he would go to the post room and call me back. He did call me back and the brown envelope with his name, in big letters was still sitting there :x I told him that was not acceptable and once again I didn't recieve any word back. He looked at the letter and the photocopy from my Carb and calorie counting diabetes book, also some carb information from other similar types of bread as a comparison. He said it needed to be seen by his senior manager and then sent to the technical department because it deals with nutrition. He doesn't know the timescale involved regarding this and I did say if I didn't hear anything back in about 5 to 7 days I would be writing or telephoning the Head Office and I asked for the address and number. I did say to Tim that customer 'care' :lol: from Premier foods is appalling and customers shouldn't be treated in this way. He probably wishes he wasn't in customer services right now and I won't let this go, I will contiune to get to the bottom of the 13.8 carbs, I'm like a dog with a bone I wont let go.
If anyone else has any good advice or ideas or an issue with premier foods ( Hovis) then please let me know.

I think alo tof companies think if they ignore problems long enough then the customer will get fed up and not bother anymore. So it looks like I'm going into battle :x

All the best RRB
 
I smell a rat...

I think you may need to go to Trading Standards as Phoenix suggested.

Did you ask him if he was aware of the info on the Hovis website? I still can't believe that and the wrapper differ.

Fight the Power RRB! :thumbup:
 
kt78 said:
I smell a rat...

I think you may need to go to Trading Standards as Phoenix suggested.

Did you ask him if he was aware of the info on the Hovis website? I still can't believe that and the wrapper differ.

Fight the Power RRB! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Dont worry, I am a fighter :x the problem is .............is the actual carbs of 13.8 correct for the weight and size of the bread, I dont believe it is, compared to many other similar type breads. If this breads carb content is correct :?: then I will be astounded because it could then be the next new 'wonder bread' :? Watch this space RRB

Do you still have your wrappers,as I would be interested to have one of those as proof? as my original letter contained the wrapper and that was 'LOST'
 
Yep - I still have that loaf in the freezer (have gone back to Burgen's...) and as I said, the wrappers in Tesco still had the same numbers on the other day.

I Just checked the other nutritional Info and it's all different from what's on the Hovis website

Per 100g Hovis website
Energy 283kcal
Protein 10.1g
Carbohydrate 43.6g
of which sugars 3.1g
Fat 6.7g
of which saturates 0.6g
Fibre 4.5g
Sodium 0.41g
equivalent as salt 1.05g

Per 100g Wrapper
Energy 249kcal
Protein 11.9g
Carbohydrate 31.4g
of which sugars 3.1g
Fat 5.6g
of which saturates 0.5g
Fibre 12.4g
Sodium 0.37g
equivalent as salt 0.95

...Funny how all the 'good' numbers, protein and fibre have gone up and all the 'bad' ones, calories, carbs, fat and salt have gone down...


I've said it before, I'll say it again - they have been making bread a long time now (!) :think:
 
Hi all an update on the Hovis saga
I rang Tim in customer service today to find out why I hadn’t been contacted. He said he emailed me on the 21st but I said i didn’t receive it. He suggested I look in my junk mail and thou and behold, there it was. We then went on Hovis website and looked at the bread, wholemeal 7 Seeds Sensation 800gr and he started talking about the 400gr loaf saying it has the same nutritional value as the 800gr :O he kept saying this and i said to Tim I didn’t understand what he was saying and after a lot of explaining from me that a slice from a 400gr is a smaller size, smaller height, smaller weight, smaller carbs, but a slice still could be the same width as 800gr slice. Tim seemed to think that a 400gr loaf is a 800gr loaf cut in half ( and I know there are half size loaves out there, but..........) and not smaller in size or nutritional value. Finally the penny dropped and he understood what I was trying to say that a slice from the 800gr loaf would have higher nutritional value than a smaller 400gr loaf.
He said my correspondence had been passed onto the relevant department and he would like to send me some complimentary vouchers. Tim then told methat he had just been informed that the nutritional values on the wrapper are wrong and they are not the same as the values on the website, so it would appear that I am correct.
I also said I am writing to Head Office because of the lack of communication and lack of care to the customer, that’s me and a potential medical problem. He suggested that I send it to The Hovis brand Manager. Hovis is such a big name in bread and such an iconic British tradition and has been baking bread for so many years, I feel let down by Hovis.
If anyone has a some good suggestions as to what to write to Head Office, then please feel free to post them as it could be helpful when putting the letter together. I have won a small battle but not yet the war, but onwards and upwards.
Best wishes RRB
 
I would try it out. test before and 1 then 2 hours after eating the different breads. do it at the same times on different days same weights. This should show what works for you.
I know that no bread works or me
Hana
 
Well done for persevering RRB :thumbup:
 
Always remember that a lot of "wholemeal" breads (especially supermarket ISB (in store bakery) ones - i.e. no ingredients listed) and some big brand ones are made using white flour with sugar added for colour! My uncle, a former master baker, struggles to understand why sugar needs to be added to ANY breads. As a T2 I have to agree with him. And ryvita etc are not really a replacement option either. But, never mind, the government are looking to blame us all for what we live with so perhaps bread and water for all of us. Oh, hang on, just water. :(
 
sammo68 said:
Always remember that a lot of "wholemeal" breads (especially supermarket ISB (in store bakery) ones - i.e. no ingredients listed) and some big brand ones are made using white flour with sugar added for colour! My uncle, a former master baker, struggles to understand why sugar needs to be added to ANY breads. As a T2 I have to agree with him. And ryvita etc are not really a replacement option either. But, never mind, the government are looking to blame us all for what we live with so perhaps bread and water for all of us. Oh, hang on, just water. :(
Click to expand...

:lol: The last sentence made me laugh.

I received two £5 vouchers from Tim yesterday. I wrote to head office about my concerns forthe lack of customer care and about the wrong labelling on the packaging. I really, really hope I get a quick reply :roll: from the Hovis branch Manager or heads will roll. Huge companies like this really tick me off, if it wasn't for the consumer then they wouldn't have a company and people would be without jobs :x Roll on next week.
I looked again at the said loaf of bread today in Morrisons and its still states 13.8 carbs per slice :roll: Incorrect and dangerous nutritional values, so please take care people when buying products like bread, seeing is not always believing :? Best wishes RRB

ps I cant even eat 'Normal bread' anymore as it will be my 1 month Coeliac disease diagnosis anniversary tomorrow :(
 
Hi again.............well after writing to Head Office with my concerns regarding the 800gram & seeds wholemeal Sensations I decided to telephone Head Office today. A lady has just rung me back and has appologised because apparantley the website nutritional values ARE incorrect and the wrapper nutritional values ARE correct at 13.8 per slice :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: As you can tell I am shocked by this. I still cannot believe a 44 gram slice is only 13.8 carbs, whereas the Original ( purple wrapper) is 18.5 per slice. I have been told that its because of the difference in the flour they use.

I am not a science boff, but something is not right with this 13.8 per slice, ( this is a large loaf of bread and not the smaller 400g) as the majority of breads this size and this weight are roughly about 17 to 18 carbs per slice and the Yellow wrapper bread is quite a thick slice.

The customer service lady said that their legal team is on to the problem of the incorrect nutritional values??? on the website and will be changing them. I think they have got it wrong and the wrapper information is incorrect and the website is correct???? I need to pursue this further, I might get in touch with a diabetes dietician to find out what is correct. In my diabtetes Carb and calorie book an average size seeded granary slice, weight 44g is 21 carbs and in the same book a slice of wholemeal medium slice, weight 36g is 15g, these are just comparisons. Or should I go to trading standards with my concerns? Theres something niggling at the back of my mind :? :?

Best wishes RRB
 
I think you'll have to change your forum name to terrier :lol:
First, I'd take a screen shot of the web page. They haven't changed it yet. Interesting that it is the legal team who are into it.
I'd also keep a sample of the packaging

Unfortunately I don't know that anyone could guess the carbs. For example, they may have added more seeds to the mix, this would increase the percentage of fat/protein making the carbs a lower percentage.
I think that Trading standards are able to analyse foods I don't know whether they would in this case but they might be interested in your account, alongside the evidence from wrappers and website.
 
I recieved this email today regarding the Seed Sensations bread.
Dear,

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me about the recent experience you have received from our Consumer Careline. I am sorry that you were not happy with our response and that the service provided by the consumer Careline compounded the issue further.

Further to our call last week, I have taken the time to dive into your complaint in more details and have reviewed it with our Legal Team and our Hovis Brand Manager.

First and foremost, please let me apologise for the confusion that has arisen around your complaint.

There are two specific areas I need to address for you in this letter:

- Issues relating to the update of the website

- An explanation of the nutrition information that appears on the Hovis Wholemeal Seven Seeds and how it compares to the Original Seven Seeds loaf.

Hovis website background

The issue with the website is linked to alterations we have made to our “Seeds Sensations” range in the autumn this year. We were keen to respond to consumer feedback and introduce a loaf made with wholemeal flour. Both the old Rich and Roasted and the Light and Nutty loaves did not have any wholemeal flour in.

Ensuring we have the right listings with Supermarkets required us to re-jig the range and 'swap' one product for another.

Unfortunately we had to stop making our 'Light and Nutty' product (both in large and loaf sizes) and rename our “Rich and Roasted” loaf as “Seven Seeds Original”.

Our 'Rich and Roasted' loaf has a loyal following but we believed the name did not do the product justice in respect of the range of seeds we incorporate into the recipe - so the product has been named 'Seven Seeds Original'- purple wrapper. We are still keen to ensure consumers have a choice of a 400g product so we now also have a 'Seven Seeds Original' 400g loaf in the similar striking rich purple colour.

The new 800g wholemeal product uses the same seed blend as the original to provide the all the texture and flavour but with the added benefit of wholemeal flour. We called the new product “Seven Seeds Wholemeal” in a yellow wrapper.

Introducing the new products is dependent to some extent as to when retailers change their shelf layouts, further complicated by taking out two 'old' products and introducing two 'new' products. This transition took several weeks across the retailers.

Why tell you this? In the transition it appears that we mixed the information up between the 'old' and the 'new'. The instruction to change the name of the product was applied both to the 'Rich and Roasted' Loaf and (wrongly) to the Light and Nutty page of the website. Only the name was changed on the page rather than changing the name and uploading the correct nutrition information at the same time.

What the consumer was seeing on the website was the nutrition information that related to the 'Light and Nutty' product and comparing it to the information on back of pack of the wholemeal variant. Your confusion is understandable.

Whilst we were able to confirm that the information on the bag was indeed correct - the reason why the information didn't match has taken longer to establish. We have now corrected our error on the website and the nutritional values now reflect the values on the wrapper, which we know are correct.

We have also reviewed our website update process to ensure that no occurrence os such issues take place in future.

Nutrition Values in Seven Seeds Wholemeal.

The second matter - and possible the key one in being able to provide you with the right information so you are better equipped to manage your nutrient and more especially your carbohydrate intake is to explain the differences that do exist between our seeded products.



Per 100g
Wholemeal 7 Seeds
Seven Seeds Original
Diff
%

Energy
1043
1171
128
-10.89

Energy
249
278
29
-10.60

Protein
11.9
10.0
-1.9
19.00

Carbohydrate
31.4
42.0
10.6
-25.16

of which sugars
3.1
3.8
0.7
-19.30

of which starch
28.4
38.3
9.9
-25.84

Fat
5.6
6.6
1.0
-15.15

Sodium
0.37
0.35
-0.02
6.67

Equivalent as salt
0.95
0.89
-0.06
6.67

Fibre
12.4
5.3
-7.1
133.96




Per Slice
Wholemeal 7 Seeds
Seven Seeds Original
Diff
% Diff

Energy
459
515
56
-10.89

Energy
109
122
13
-10.60

Protein
5.2
4.4
-0.8
19.00

Carbohydrate
13.8
18.5
4.6
-25.16

of which sugars
1.3
1.7
0.3
-19.30

of which starch (not dec.)
12.5
16.8
4.3
-25.84

Fat
2.5
2.9
0.4
-15.15

Sodium
0.16
0.15
-0.01
6.67

Equivalent as salt
0.42
0.39
-0.03
6.67

Fibre
5.5
2.3
-3.1
133.96




The lower figure for the wholemeal product is not unexpected and can be explained (and supported by analytical data).

The difference is due to the use of wholemeal flour - this has a much higher fibre content (double the amount in the 'original' recipe) due to the presence of the bran along with a little more protein (both these figures are comparatively higher in wholemeal) the lower carbohydrate figure is due to lower levels of starch present in wholemeal( as white flour is predominently starch). The other slight difference is the levels of moisture present as the fibre absorbs more water when forming the dough - when taken together these extras help explain with we have a lower carbohydrate figure.

The 'light and nutty' product also used white flour and was less heavily seeded and the carbohydrate figure on the website would have been much higher (as high as 19.2g per slice).

We are confident that the carbohydrate figure for the wholemeal 7 seeds loaf is correct.

We would not profess to be qualified to provide dietary advice but would advise caution in assessing whether either variant can be consumed as part of the diet without triggering an adverse reaction and would always suggest to check with your GP.

We value our consumers highly and work hard to ensure any complaints are responded to quickly and professionally but clearly we have fallen short of both your, and our, expectations in this case.

I would like to apologise profusely for the delay and the confusion that has arisen around your complaint.

I have therefore asked for a cheque to be raised to the amount of £20.00 as a token of apology to be raised for your attention which I hope you will accept with our very best wishes. The cheque will be sent under separate cover and I will write to you again as soon as it arrives to my office.

Once again, please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience you may have experienced.

I have sent you a copy of this letter at your home address for your records.

Kind regards,

For and on behalf of Premier Foods Group Limited
 
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