Why am I not losing weight or improving bg?

[zand]

It's not a hard thing to find.
Everyone's life history is on here somewhere.

All you need to do is have a quick look.

But yours is hidden

 

[SunnyExpat]

But yours is hidden

Yes.

 

[AtkinsMo]

The op hasn't said they feel particularly hungry.
Both low BG, and weight loss are normally possible.

Has your method got you down to your target weight?

I agree, I guess the point I was trying to make is to focus on the BG, the weight loss will naturally follow, stop stressing about it and don't set deadlines.

She has mentioned snacks when hungry.

My target weight is a movable feast, in that it never goes up, but it seems to gradually drift down - I keep thinking I am happy at my current weight, then I lose a bit more. I have lost in excess of 40lbs, and kept it off for 5 years. I am currently about 4 lbs over a so called 'normal' BMI (yes, I was once 'obese' now merely low end of 'overweight'). And I lose about 3lb a year, but totally happy with that, and if I plateau at this weight, I'm happy with that too, according to the most recent research, the individuals with the greatest life expectancy are in the 'overweight' category. I can still 'choose to lose' sticking to strictly 20g carbs and no alcohol - but I average about 30g and have a couple of red wines a day - sometimes a little more.
I only test bg now once a week, random times as I am actually doing finger stick for blood clotting and I bleed like a pig so may as well check bg at same time and it is never more than 6, sometimes much less and sometimes ketones up to 4 - all good.

Anything else you'd like to know?

 

[SunnyExpat]

I agree, I guess the point I was trying to make is to focus on the BG, the weight loss will naturally follow, stop stressing about it and don't set deadlines.

She has mentioned snacks when hungry.

My target weight is a movable feast, in that it never goes up, but it seems to gradually drift down - I keep thinking I am happy at my current weight, then I lose a bit more. I have lost in excess of 40lbs, and kept it off for 5 years. I am currently about 4 lbs over a so called 'normal' BMI (yes, I was once 'obese' now merely low end of 'overweight'). And I lose about 3lb a year, but totally happy with that, and if I plateau at this weight, I'm happy with that too, according to the most recent research, the individuals with the greatest life expectancy are in the 'overweight' category. I can still 'choose to lose' sticking to strictly 20g carbs and no alcohol - but I average about 30g and have a couple of red wines a day - sometimes a little more.
I only test bg now once a week, random times as I am actually doing finger stick for blood clotting and I bleed like a pig so may as well check bg at same time and it is never more than 6, sometimes much less and sometimes ketones up to 4 - all good.

Anything else you'd like to know?

Not really, just wondering how your experiences related to the actual question asked by the op.
If you think telling them not to stress about weight loss, and not to set dead lines, it kind of suggests you have decided for them what they should be doing though, rather than trying to answer what they asked.

But maybe they will be happy to do it your way?

 

[AtkinsMo]

I thought that was what a forum was all about, sharing experiences that have actually worked for individuals.

I have used 'tracking', measuring everything, logging it all (I used fatsecret personally) - but maybe it's my personality - I easily tend to obsess - when I relaxed and just stuck to a restricted food list, and learned a different way of cooking to incorporate more healthy fat, so the food is delicious and satisfying, the bg reductions and weight loss were a 'given'.

Prior to actively participating so much on this forum, I have been an active member on many a weight loss forum and I know, the more you stress about not losing weight, the harder it is to lose weight. By counting calories as well as carbs there is a natural tendency to restrict fats (as they are more calorie dense) and personally I have found this not to be helpful.

I particularly like this forum because it focuses on diet adjustment to promote healthy outcomes, rather than, "I have to lose a stone in a fortnight". Dietary changes for us or for the long term, for nearly all individuals (with a very few exceptions that are profoundly metabolic resistant) in the long term LCHF will produce the desired result of bg lowering and weight loss, provided the carb restriction is low enough.

 

[SunnyExpat]

That's the thing though, as you say, that seems to work for you, personally, at a slow pace that suit you.

If you do read the comments of others, calorie restriction is the only way that works for them, otherwise calorie creep, (and fats are more caloric) comes in. With lchf, more isn't always less for everyone.

And sometimes it's easier to simply bite the bullet, and reduce the calories, and go for a perceivable weight loss.

 

[zand]

That's the thing though, as you say, that seems to work for you, personally, at a slow pace that suit you.

If you do read the comments of others, calorie restriction is the only way that works for them, otherwise calorie creep, (and fats are more caloric) comes in. With lchf, more isn't always less for everyone.

And sometimes it's easier to simply bite the bullet, and reduce the calories, and go for a perceivable weight loss.

And what works for you today may not work tomorrow. I did calorie restriction for a long time then it stopped working, now my weight loss on LCHF has stalled. I don't put any on which is wonderful, but I don't lose any either. My son is getting married soon and the desire to look a little less fat in the photos has driven me to change what I'm doing again. So I started to try an 800 cal diet. Well that we so easy when I was younger. Not so now! I'm not managing to keep to that limit yet, but I will once I get my head around calorie counting again instead of carb counting. The thing is I'm beginning to wonder if calorie restriction is hard for a particular person to achieve, then maybe it's more worthwhile for them too? I have lost a little weight even though I'm not hitting my calorie targets yet.

 

[SunnyExpat]

There are definitely two types at least, those that naturally stop eating, ie those that claim they never count calories but always seem to eat very little, feeling 'full' on fat, and so become naturally calorie deficient, and others, who won't feel full, and will continue to keep eating, regardless, and need to 'manually' stop eating by keeping a check on intake. The issue is getting the first group to believe the second group exist, and we're not all the same.
(Guess which group I'm in, unfortunately )

 

[Oldvatr]

and others, who won't feel full, and will continue to keep eating, regardless, and need to 'manually' stop eating by keeping a check on intake.

This point you make applies equally to both 'types' of diet you describe This forum discusses many 'types' of diet that many report success with, and equally many that complain of failures. Some calorie count, some carb count. Either approach works for weight loss. Either approach works for weight gain too, Where the two types of approach differ is in bgl control. The new LC diets do seem to offer a tweakable control mechanism for bgl reduction, but calorie counting allows high carb intake which is proving detrimental for diabetics.

You state that carb counters end up feeling hungry and thus breaking their diet by bingeing. This same comment also regularly occurs where calorie restriction is being used. In fact it is one reason why diets fail long term,

 

[Oldvatr]

I particularly like this forum because it focuses on diet adjustment to promote healthy outcomes, rather than, "I have to lose a stone in a fortnight". Dietary changes for us or for the long term, for nearly all individuals (with a very few exceptions that are profoundly metabolic resistant) in the long term LCHF will produce the desired result of bg lowering and weight loss, provided the carb restriction is low enough.

Whilst it appears that gradual weight loss seems to be a more preferred approach to reduce yo-yo dieting, in this case the OP is seeking advice on a more drastic approach. The OP appears to be both calorie restricting, and using an LC approach. The resultant seems to be not working

Whichever 'type' of diet control is applied. IMO the OP should make a direct choice since this mixture is clouding the waters.

Either restrict calories, or carbs. If LC is chosen, then a fast weight loss needs to be less than 50g carbs a day, moderate protein, and medium fat, so the current menu needs reduction. If calorie control, then its the fats and carbs that need to drop drastically.

 

[EdMac]

There are definitely two types at least, those that naturally stop eating, ie those that claim they never count calories but always seem to eat very little, feeling 'full' on fat, and so become naturally calorie deficient, and others, who won't feel full, and will continue to keep eating, regardless, and need to 'manually' stop eating by keeping a check on intake.

I think for a lot of people food represents more than just the fuel they need to take on board at the given moment they are eating. My dad, for example, grew up in poverty with an unmarried mother who didn't earn enough to feed them properly. His attitude to food was unhealthy for most of his life and in certain circumstances (like when we ate out, particularly in a table buffet sharing setting) I could watch his state clearly changing - irrational fears surfacing. It was only when he was diagnosed diabetic, in his late 60's, that he reigned in his habits.

For other people there are potentially a wide range of emotional ties with food. In an ideal world people would wipe the emotional issues from the slate and then tackle healthy dieting - probably finding that their diet naturally shifted anyway. But for many reasons this isn't practical for everyone.

So it's difficult to assess a diet on it's own merits because it's only ever one part of a more complicated personal equation.

 

[mandyle]

Hi there Debbiedoodles,

About Hair Loss....
Think about the Stress factor. I have a good head of hair, still dark with an odd grey strand at 56. However my best hair was when I was pregnant (2 separate occasions). However after both babies were born I lost hair by the handful. Since then I have noticed that I loose a lot of hair when I am really stressed, usually over quite a period of time: bad working conditions or running my own business when I still had very young children but no family support (except for a wonderful husband who was unfortunately away a lot!) My daughter,who had a really good head of hair too, ended up with bad bald patches when she was finishing off her PhD write-up, as she was so stressed out.(6 months later she is now back to her normal thick curly hair!)

Don't stress out too much on getting your levels down at a faster rate. You haven't mentioned how long you have been doing the LCHF diet? It took me 8 weeks to loose a stone, getting my HbA1C down to 'acceptable,' then I plateaued. I had always eaten very little (<1000 cal/day) and exercised a fair amount, and at certain times put on a lot of weight, but couldn't loose it (probably cortisol levels too high). T2 diagnosis forced me into looking at the fact that my body couldn't process carbohydrate properly, so I reduced my carb intake, as you have. (I refused to go down the medication route). Many months later I have found that I am now starting to loose weight/waist line again, but slowly.
Look at these threads as well:
The Cortisol Connection
Newly Diagnosed Terrified and in Denial!

So keep at it and don't get too disheartened. And keep that cortisol (created by stress) down...
Keep your chin up, this is a great support group! You'll get there.

Mandy

 

[debbiedoodles]

Hi everyone
Thanks for all your support and ideas. I think I have basically just got confused in the Lchf issue. I made paleo bread and some almond flour scones which in principle I should be able to eat as an occasional treat Eg. Twice a week , according to the Lchf school of thought. However it's not working for me to include cream in scrambled egg have cheese etc. My bg is averaging 7.5 from 9 so has improved over 3 weeks but my weight is the same. I have considered all responses and carried on looking into what to do next and I have decided to start Dukan attack in about a weeks time after my birthday cos I want to have a drink! Dukan as you are prob all aware is low fat, unrestricted lean protein, low carb. This will fit in with what many of you say. I honestly can't see the high fat content working for weight loss for me personally. Although I completely get how it can work with bg. I think studying the Dukan diet it looks like it will work for me. I am not stressed by the way I'm just still feeling my way and it's a whole new way of learning to eat Lchf and I just haven't found my balance with it for weight loss anyway.
I appreciate all your replies and will let you know how it goes.
Debbie

 

[SunnyExpat]

Whilst it appears that gradual weight loss seems to be a more preferred approach to reduce yo-yo dieting, in this case the OP is seeking advice on a more drastic approach. The OP appears to be both calorie restricting, and using an LC approach. The resultant seems to be not working

Whichever 'type' of diet control is applied. IMO the OP should make a direct choice since this mixture is clouding the waters.

Either restrict calories, or carbs. If LC is chosen, then a fast weight loss needs to be less than 50g carbs a day, moderate protein, and medium fat, so the current menu needs reduction. If calorie control, then its the fats and carbs that need to drop drastically.

No reason to eat carbs, particularly if the op wants to control BG.
It makes far more sense to limit the carbs to a level which ensures good BG control, then eat fats and limited protein, but count the calories to ensure your own personal limit isn't breached.
There is absolutely no reason why LCHF has to be an unlimited feast, with a bit of common sense both weight loss, and BG control can be achieved.

 

[Oldvatr]

No reason to eat carbs, particularly if the op wants to control BG.
It makes far more sense to limit the carbs to a level which ensures good BG control, then eat fats and limited protein, but count the calories to ensure your own personal limit isn't breached.
There is absolutely no reason why LCHF has to be an unlimited feast, with a bit of common sense both weight loss, and BG control can be achieved.

Actually, the OP has decided to stop the LCHF and move to a different diet. My point is that there are many diets around that limit calories, and these allow carbs to be included (aka South Beach). My experience is that as a diabetic I find carb restriction is working for me, so would not choose a calorie limited diet myself. However, if you try to apply both carb limit AND calorie limit, then things can get muddled unecessarily, so my advice was to choose one or the other, because it seems either has viability.

BTW, I have not seen anywhere a recommendation that LCHF is 'unlimited', If you went on the LCHF course here, there was a section on portion control, just like any diet. I found that a ham salad is ok except if I overdo the ham portion, Proved this on several occasions, so now my 'good recipes' list carries a warning for me, As regards fat I am still using less fat that I did when I was younger, but more than I was advised to use until recently on the 'low fat' approach. I switched from marge to butter about 10 years ago, so it is not a fad for me. I only use bulletproof coffee when have a need to put on weight and I have only just bought my first jar of coconut oil. for yam fries. I find nuts have too many carbs for me, so use Babybels as occasional snacks instead of pigging out on crisps like I used to 6 months ago.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Actually, the OP has decided to stop the LCHF and move to a different diet. My point is that there are many diets around that limit calories, and these allow carbs to be included (aka South Beach). My experience is that as a diabetic I find carb restriction is working for me, so would not choose a calorie limited diet myself. However, if you try to apply both carb limit AND calorie limit, then things can get muddled unecessarily, so my advice was to choose one or the other, because it seems either has viability.

BTW, I have not seen anywhere a recommendation that LCHF is 'unlimited', If you went on the LCHF course here, there was a section on portion control, just like any diet. I found that a ham salad is ok except if I overdo the ham portion, Proved this on several occasions, so now my 'good recipes' list carries a warning for me, As regards fat I am still using less fat that I did when I was younger, but more than I was advised to use until recently on the 'low fat' approach. I switched from marge to butter about 10 years ago, so it is not a fad for me. I only use bulletproof coffee when have a need to put on weight and I have only just bought my first jar of coconut oil. for yam fries. I find nuts have too many carbs for me, so use Babybels as occasional snacks instead of pigging out on crisps like I used to 6 months ago.

So you apply portion control, which is the ability to estimate how much food you need to hit your daily intake.
Experience lets you limit your calories by an accurate estimation, many need to build that accuracy by initially measuring, and building the correct portion sizes by calories.

 

[Kristin251]

Debbie,
Just a wor of warning. Some of us need to moderate our protein or it raises BS.
Just a sensible diet with controlled portions. I small salad with a few oz protein and a drizzle Evoo sea salt and hubs is a great lunch or dinner or both. I use lettuce wraps too. Same food just looks different. Nuts chees and all grains CAN be eliminated. Keeping carbs low as well. Good luck. I think Dukan is decent but perhaps unlimited protein doesn't work for diabetics and very low fat either. As stated different fats act different. Maybe stick with avocado and olive oil for now.

Good luck. It is all confusing and you will find your balance

 

[debbiedoodles]

Debbie,
Just a wor of warning. Some of us need to moderate our protein or it raises BS.
Just a sensible diet with controlled portions. I small salad with a few oz protein and a drizzle Evoo sea salt and hubs is a great lunch or dinner or both. I use lettuce wraps too. Same food just looks different. Nuts chees and all grains CAN be eliminated. Keeping carbs low as well. Good luck. I think Dukan is decent but perhaps unlimited protein doesn't work for diabetics and very low fat either. As stated different fats act different. Maybe stick with avocado and olive oil for now.

Good luck. It is all confusing and you will find your balance

Thanks you're right Kristin it is confusing. I have studied Dukan more and it depends which one you follow as to how restrictive it is. I had no idea that protein can also raise bg I have bought the oat bran and with egg whites I am hoping it will be ok but will test over a few days as my bg is still up and down between 7.5 and 9.5 over the day. I am going to cut out really high fat for now and see if it makes a difference to weight loss. I am not sure I am comfortable with just protein. I can see it might work for some for weight loss but I can't honestly see how salad and low carb veg can cause weight gain, also from a nutritional point of view it's more balanced. Also if protein can make bg go up then it will be useless approach. I think I will try the oat bran because at 7g carb per portion in galette if it doesn't spike my bg it will be a good breakfast alternative to scrambled egg. Fingers crossed!

 

[Brunneria]

Blood glucose reacts to protein in a number of ways - and it can be really useful. But probably worth testing out your personal reaction to protein before coming to any hard conclusions. The protein 'peak' is often later, and much lower than carb peaks, so unless you are looking for it, you may not see it. Better to do extra testing at 3 and 4 hours until you get the feel for it.

From things that @Kristin251 has said about her protein reactions in other threads, she seems to be unfortunate. Many others of us find protein an excellent tool in our T2 armoury.

For instance: Protein digests slowly, and the body takes the protein it needs first, then converts any extra into energy (glucose). But it usually does it MUCH more slowly than for carbs. This means that the so called 'rise' in blood glucose is a small one, that lasts for hours. It is nothing like a spike from carbs.

These are actual figures from my last night's steak fest, with Stilton and green salad:
It was a nice juicy 12 oz steak and salad, raised my bg from 5.6 to 6.7 mmol/l over 3 hours. This insignificant 'peak' lasted about 4 more hours then gently dropped.

All watched with pleasure on my Freestyle Libre screen, so I know I didn't miss any hidden peaks or troughs.

Hardly a problem, I think you will agree?

My blood glucose was then as steady as a rock, all night, and I woke up to a Fasting score 0.4mmol/l lower than average.

So, while I am not saying that protein will behave exactly the same for you, it is definitely worth checking it out to find out your personal reaction!

 

[serenity648]

Yes.

You are an International Person of Mystery LOL.