why are some of us not happy with morning readings ?

As long as you remain in the non-damaging range then you are doing fine......even if you don't achieve it you are not failing in any way....

mornings are always are more resistant period of the day.......

get the people who achieve fours in the morning with no meds to come and tell you how they do it....it likely wont be without tremendous effort I would say....

It is sometimes nothing to do with effort, rather it can be down to Insulin Resistance and time.
It took me three times as long (or so it seemed) to get decent fasting readings but it did happen. I chose to stop looking at other people's readings and comparing them to my own because I felt so despondent at times.
But it did happen, I get good numbers and so will you given time. Keep going, you'll get there.

Charis1213 said:

I have noticed the lower the morning readings the happier we seem to be, I thought anything under 7.8 is normal .

I wonder if mine will ever be as low as some of you on here in the 4's and whether this is better than what i have which is occasionally in the high 5's. I feel I am failing somehow .

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I often get discontent with higher reading but with keeping all the data over time I can see that every month it gets raised, presumably due to hormones. Mine was 7.9 this morning but I did have way too much protein yesterday, too much (LC) snacking but I also had some low carb bread before bed so I wasn’t surprised. I have only ever had lower readings a couple of times and only if I’ve had alcohol the night before. I too have often questioned whether I can ever get in 4s or low 5s consistently. You are doing fine

You are doing great @Charis1213
As someone who is generally one of those 4’s in the morning people that too can be a burden - I now find myself in a position where anything over a low 5 and I’m analysing everything and feel like I’ve failed somewhere because it’s too high. When it clearly isn’t and as you say is well within normal limits. And then because I start in 4’s It means I expect low all day and so any 6, at any time of day, is something I struggle to handle. Yet, for example a 4.9 pre meal, 6.1 2hr after meal is perfectly acceptable.
So as wonderful as those 4’s seem, and yes of course I totally get why it could be disheartening seeing others reach them, depending on the sort of person you are (obsessive control freak is me) then it does mean the bar is set ‘low’ so to speak and becomes pressure to maintain. I think whatever readings we get a lot of us still beat ourselves up over them. Striving for perfection with an imperfect illness that it seems even the weather or a cold can affect is definitely a battle.
Be proud that you’ve taken on the challenge head on, made such positive changes and are seeing wonderful results for it

@Charis1213 you're doing well

as one of the T2D people who currently spends the majority of her time with morning bg in the 4's perhaps I can give you my take on it too

For me it's about understanding and control. If I have a higher than usual reading I like to be able to understand why and to feel that I have some measure of control.

My journey worked as you see in my sig. below, but basically the way I ended up with fbg in the 4's was by losing over half my body weight with lower carb healthy fat and initially restricted calories too, not a weight loss option available to everyone! My average fbg at my lowest weight (still just overweight ), was around 4.3, now I'm fluctuating around a slightly higher weight which feels ok to me, trying to eat to maintain that and my fbg is averaging around 4.6. That's my current 'normal' if you like and I expected my fbg to be a bit higher once I started eating at my new 'normal' level so that's ok.

Having been told T2D is progressive I think we worry about higher than 'normal' readings and want to understand why it happened. Your own 'normal' depends on all the factors that feed into T2D and knowing your own body, Anywhere in the range is fine We're all a 'work in progress '

Hi @Charis1213, Imagine you are in an archery contest, but rather than a round target with a bullseye there is a panel with two horizontal lines, the top line reads 7.8 and the bottom one reads say 3.9,
As long as you shoot your arrow and it lands between the two lines you are fine.
Above the top line or or below the lower line is best avoided if possible.
Without certain medication you are not likely to land too low.
The higher the arrow goes the more risk that it or many others like it will land back on you !!
Best wishes, good luck and keep your eyes peeled !!

It’s a very personal thing. Some are happy at ~8 and some are happy at ~5. We should all be aware that sometimes our own standards and results can cause despondency in others, but ultimately we can only share our own experiences of life with diabetes, and no one should feel like they’re treading on eggs shells in doing so. You are not failing.

I know you are not accusing anyone of doing so, but I don’t ever see anyone showboating with low readings, and certainly I don’t see people asserting what is an acceptable fasting number for others. In the end, we use the community as a source of information, but should be encouraged to choose our own definition of what is acceptable to us

Charis1213 said:

I have noticed the lower the morning readings the happier we seem to be, I thought anything under 7.8 is normal .

I wonder if mine will ever be as low as some of you on here in the 4's and whether this is better than what i have which is occasionally in the high 5's. I feel I am failing somehow .

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I was 6.9 this morning, thanks to a cold that's been upping my levels. Normally I'm around 5.1, 5.2. I don't see a 4-something (or even a 3-something) in the morning unless I've been fasting for 24 hours, which I haven't done in a while because of medication that needs to be taken with food. It just all depends on how much insulin resistance you have and what your liver's up to in the morning, far as dumping goes. It was a year and a half of low carbing before my fasting numbers went below 6 consistently, as those are the last numbers to come down. It's not failing. It's the reason why I put more stock in pre and postprandial to see how I'm doing with my sugars. (Except when morning numbers are high; then I know I'm coming down with something, as they tend to rise 2 days before a cold or something really hits. )

You're doing fine. Honest.

@Charis1213 @Flora123 me too me too! In fact although the rest of the day is fairly consistent 5’s or 6’s, even after food, mornings seem to be creeping up ever so slightly not going down.

Dawn phenomenon would appear to be my issue and fasting just keeps it rising. So I’m trying to eat a fat based low carb early breakfast then typically fasting til dinner. Not as good as a single 16hr fast but two reasonably long fasts nonetheless. It’s not making the fasting figures any better but it comes back down quicker this way than extending the fast. Not sure what else to do other than keep with it and hope time improves it more.

JoKalsbeek said:

. It was a year and a half of low carbing before my fasting numbers went below 6 consistently, as those are the last numbers to come down.

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That’s quite reassuring, thanks. It’s nice to have an idea of a time scale that has eventually resulted in better fasting figures. It’s a bit too easy to assume that once hb1ac drops to a decent level as mine and others do in a few months then the fasting one should do the same in the same time frame.

Hi there @Charis1213, my take on this is that any person with diabetes or impaired glucose or a body that does not process carbs that well is not 'normal' in the sense that they can obtain 'normal' readings 24/7 like a person WITHOUT those particular ailments. Without doubt we can all do plenty to obtain those 'normal' or near to normal readings by diet or exercise or insulin and so on but even when our control is as good as it can be, we must remember that we are absolutely unique. A person without diabetes could be 20 stone, or a heavy smoker, or a couch potato or as thin as a rake or a 1000 carbs a day person and because their pancreas is working fine, they will always be around 4.4 (which I think is the optimum in a non diabetic). You are doing great and to hasten after this 'perfect' number which incidentally is different even in non diabetics is stressful. I am not one of the 'keep it in the 4s or you will lose your toes' brigade, I think that is a dreadful phrase, but I do recognise of course that the nearer to normal we can get, the better. Having said that, sometimes no matter what an individual does, their bodies will simply not operate like a non diabetics even with maximum effort (some do, I know). If it did, they wouldn't be diabetic and they would be able to throw caution to the wind wouldn't they?

KK123 said:

[...] I am not one of the 'keep it in the 4s or you will lose your toes' brigade, I think that is a dreadful phrase [...]

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I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’ve not seen anyone post that on here? People do sometimes reference eyes and toes along those lines, but in my view they’re simply expressing their motivation. Particularly if they’ve already had such complications through poor control. I think it’s a matter of perspective in how we interpret other people’s enthusiasm for their own standards and choices.

I’m not picking holes in your comments, but just wanted to expand on the toes thing, as I know I’ve probably alluded to it in my ramblings once or twice

As some one who does hit the fours on occasion like this morning with a 4.4 being at that level is something I do not particularly enjoy as it leaves me feeling a bit naff I prefer the low fives to be honest.

Jim Lahey said:

I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’ve not seen anyone post that on here? People do sometimes reference eyes and toes along those lines, but in my view they’re simply expressing their motivation. Particularly if they’ve already had such complications through poor control. I think it’s a matter of perspective in how we interpret other people’s enthusiasm for their own standards and choices.

I’m not picking holes in your comments, but just wanted to expand on the toes thing, as I know I’ve probably alluded to it in my ramblings once or twice

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Hi Jim, I get what you are saying but I do think that when some people express 'their' motivation there is sometimes a strong inference that if others don't...well, it's often expressed as 'I keep to under 20 carbs because I value my eyes' etc.....I know that's a perspective and I definitely know that YOU personally are always very respectful when you comment and I for one, appreciate that even when we differ! God forbid if we can't have a good old debate or chat!

Does anyone think there is any relation to Hba1c and FBG at diagnosis, the amount of weight loss and current FBG? So I was Hba1c if 112/115 in dx (can’t remember). FBG if 22 so very high. Three months later Hba1c was 36 but I didn’t need to lose weight but with restricted diet I’ve lost around 5lbs that I didn’t want to lose. My FBG readings are normally 6s and 7s. Just curious if those with lower initial Hba1c but more weight to lose get better morning FBG readings.

Flora123 said:

Does anyone think there is any relation to Hba1c and FBG at diagnosis, the amount of weight loss and current FBG? So I was Hba1c if 112/115 in dx (can’t remember). FBG if 22 so very high. Three months later Hba1c was 36 but I didn’t need to lose weight but with restricted diet I’ve lost around 5lbs that I didn’t want to lose. My FBG readings are normally 6s and 7s. Just curious if those with lower initial Hba1c but more weight to lose get better morning FBG readings.

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Don’t think so. I was 54mmol diagnosed so not high really. Don’t know what my fbg was at that point officially but my testing was giving 7’s and 8’s. In 3 months I lost more than 2 stone and down to Hb1ac of 44 and 6’s and some 7’s and now nearly another stone Hb1ac slightly lower and still 6’s sometime 7’s