Why So Few?

Scott-C said:

I'm sometimes tempted to napalm T2s who ask why was their bg 5.5 and then it was 5.7.

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Napalming us will lower our BGs, so watch out

The fasting levels posted so far are disappointing - where are the people in the teens? Sadly I was at 5.6 this morning, nothing compared to the couple of 16 and a bits I had last month...

Diakat said:

The fasting levels posted so far are disappointing - where are the people in the teens? Sadly I was at 5.6 this morning, nothing compared to the couple of 16 and a bits I had last month...

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Hmm...after the 6.6 I went for a run and clearly put my body in "shock mode" - increased to 11.9 after

Scott-C said:

@SueJB , here's a quote from an endo which, I feel, puts things into perspective:

https://diatribe.org/issues/58/quotable-quotes

"In all the work with diabetes technology I’ve done, I’ve worn CGM for long periods of time. I don’t have diabetes, but I’ll eat a dessert and go up to 200 mg/dl. I’ll also drop down to 50 or 60 mg/dl. People with diabetes are comparing themselves to a false standard. The pancreas, for all of the advantages it has, still allows big excursions. It’s crazy to think it’s ideal.”

-Dr. Steven Russell (Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA) urging people with diabetes not to be too hard on themselves.

Athough the novelty of cgm lets me play around with insulin and see more of what's happening, I managed ok for 28 years without it. Sometimes I actually get fed up with the information overload and wonder whether I'm paying too much attention to it.

Although it's nice to get a few 100% in range days, I've become much more relaxed about it going up to 9 or 10 for a few hours, because, as the doc quoted above says, that happens in non-T1s too. And why wouldn't it? That's what the bloodstream is there for, to distribute glucose around the body, so after a meal, one would expect it to be higher.

I'm ok with short periods of 9s and 10s every now and then. The thing to watch out for is regular extended 10s to 15s. That's dangerous ground.

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But it's my understanding that 'statistically' we are at less risk of diabetes complications if we maintain tight control.
So in response to the quotation, my question would be - are non diabetics with higher glucose levels healthy? Or are they suffering from higher levels of illness that is put down to old age (or some other factor) because their high glucose levels are not monitored, and subsequently not factored in?

urbanracer said:

But it's my understanding that 'statistically' we are at less risk of diabetes complications if we maintain tight control.
So in response to the quotation, my question would be - are non diabetics with higher glucose levels healthy? Or are they suffering from higher levels of illness that is put down to old age (or some other factor) because their high glucose levels are not monitored, and subsequently not factored in?

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Or are they well on the way to Type 2 without knowing it?

urbanracer said:

in response to the quotation, my question would be - are non diabetics with higher glucose levels healthy?

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Depends on what you mean by higher levels. If they're running around >10 for long periods, it suggests underlying problems, but I've seen cgm traces from non-T1s showing a natural spike to 8 and 9 after meals, because that's just what happens normally when glucose is being distributed around the body, like a motorway gets busier at rush hour. Of course, we can cheat a bit by pre-bolusing to get a downward curve instead of a spike, but it often doesn't work. If it doesn't, and we get a short spike to 8 or 9, I don't sweat it because that happens in non-Ts. If it's a wild bounce up to above 10, revisit ratios or decide that meal isn't for me.

I'm reminded of how Bernstein decided 4.6 was the perfect level. Meter salesmen visited his office and he noticed their levels were generally around 4.6. That's not science.

Scott-C said:

Depends on what you mean by higher levels.

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The question I'm asking is about comparing 2 non-diabetic people. The first has a super efficient endocrine system and blood glucose levels seldom go above 8.0ish and the second has glucose levels that are continuously straying into the low teens after eating.

Over a lifetime, what is the effect on these 2 individuals? Does the person with higher levels become more at risk of arthritis, kidney problems and illnesses that 'we' associate with diabetic complications, which (in the non-diabetic) are not associated with an endocrine malfunction?

Scott-C said:

but I've seen cgm traces from non-T1s showing a natural spike to 8 and 9 after meals, because that's just what happens normally when glucose is being distributed around the body,

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This is very true, but the difference between them and T2s with insulin resistance (which T2s all have) is that non-D's return to base fairly quickly. The amount of time spent up there is short. Maybe T1s can do this with correct dosing, but T2's don't and can't until the IR has improved, and that can only be done by reducing the amount of circulating insulin, which in most cases can only be done by diet.

Daphne917 said:

However I think that it is useful for new Diabetics to learn that good BS control can be achieved through diet (not ness very low carb) and meds for T2s

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Absolutely agree with you there. I was referring to my own particular situation. It's that I feel a sort communality with T1's in as much as I have come to realize that being prednisolone induced and not being ever able to stop taking preds I can only improve my situation within limitations and though I do not take insulin at the moment I cannot look for reversal or long term remission.
That is not to say that I am no longer going to try to control my BG but accept the limitations and not stress about it any more As I have been.

I also understand that T1's have a vastly different condition to contend with, and how frustrating that can be, In fact on my wifes side of the family we have several T1's from infancy and some with LADA as well and I mow just how difficult it can be for them.

I woke at 11.1. Didn’t panic. It’s the weekend. Had a bit of extra insulin at breakfast. Still not panicking.

11.4 this morning. Despite my DSNs insistence that I don't get DP.

7.8 this morning..................

SueJB said:

Just been wondering why there are so few T1D people around? I post my fasting BG and on other threads and it seems there are lots of posting from T2 but not so many T1.

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I wonder if there's also less interaction between T1 and T2 (and T3c etc) members than there could be? Knowing when and where to interact is not always easy.

If a thread is of a social / humorous nature then I'll sometimes take part regardless, but if a thread is someone asking for advice, which they often are, and the OP's profile says they are T1, I'll normally move on rather than responding. Even though there is a bit of overlap between dealing with T1 and T2, I feel they are such different things that I worry I'd be annoying someone with T1 if I presumed to offer advice.

Even if say a thread is about someone suffering from depression or diabetes burnout. I've experienced those things, but if a thread on that subject is started by someone with T1, I still don't feel very comfortable responding. The thought of dying 10 years early or losing limbs due to poor management is not the same as the constant threat of dying immediately due to a brief lapse in management, so the sources of depression and burnout won't be quite the same.

A thread where people compare fasting levels is a particularly good example. Imagine starting that thread yourself. How do you pitch it? Do you say "this thread is for T1 / T2 / T3C people only" and risk alienating people? Or do you say "This thread is for everyone" and risk annoying people by not recognising that the whole concept of ideal fasting levels is different depending on what condition you are managing and how you are managing it.

Anyway I think we'll all muddling through pretty well considering, possibly bound by the common experience of all wishing we could eat food without having to think about our own blood, life expectancy and numbers. That bit gets really old for all of us, I'm sure.

Bluetit1802 said:

Maybe T1s can do this with correct dosing, but T2's don't

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Indeed we can, and my comments have been in response to a thread started by a T1 asking why so few T1s contribute to the site.

There's been numerous instances of T1s becoming terrified of insulin after T1 threads getting swamped by T2s talking nonsense about how insulin should be avoided as much as possible because it'll make them fat, put them on a constant roller-coaster, hypoing all the time, and that outdated gibberish the Law of Small Numbers.

Scott-C said:

Indeed we can, and my comments have been in response to a thread started by a T1 asking why so few T1s contribute to the site.

There's been numerous instances of T1s becoming terrified of insulin after T1 threads getting swamped by T2s talking nonsense about how insulin should be avoided as much as possible because it'll make them fat, put them on a constant roller-coaster, hypoing all the time, and that outdated gibberish the Law of Small Numbers.

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But you and others have introduced the idea of bombing and attacking T2s on this thread.
Hardly a surprise that they have started to show up to respond to your comments, is it?

I would like to remind everyone that this is a support forum, not a snipe and criticise forum, and the forum rules specifically ask that if members are not willing to make postitive contributions, then they are better not posting.

Every single person with diabetes on this forum manages their diabetes in a unique way. It does not matter what other people do. And criticising the Law of Small Numbers as Gibberish is neither humorous, supportive, nor helpful.

AdamJames said:

A thread where people compare fasting levels is a particularly good example. Imagine starting that thread yourself. How do you pitch it? Do you say "this thread is for T1 / T2 / T3C people only" and risk alienating people? Or do you say "This thread is for everyone" and risk annoying people by not recognising that the whole concept of ideal fasting levels is different depending on what condition you are managing and how you are managing it.

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I would just post my thread in the Forum of the type I am, or would prefer responses from. I only ever post my fasting blood sugars in the type 2 thread for fasting levels for example.

I reckon one thread for LADA, T1s and 3cs together would be helpful, - especially if there was chat on it too. I don't think T2s would be alienated as long as there was an explanation as to why we shouldn't post on it as we have 2 other threads to post on.

Rachox said:

I would just post my thread in the Forum of the type I am, or would prefer responses from. I only ever post my fasting blood sugars in the type 2 thread for fasting levels for example.

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Aha!

I'd never noticed the distinction before. I've been aware of the 'post your numbers with little chat' and the 'post your numbers with more chat' threads for a while now. Because the thread names seemed to refer to each other, I assumed they were started by the same person and were in the same place. Sometimes I've posted a number in one, then immediately posted the same number in the other with more chat.

I've never even noticed what forum they were in, in fact I now realise that info is at the top of the page and I've never paid much attention to it

I see it's only the 'very low chat level' one which is specifically in a T2 forum. Thanks for highlighting this.

Scott-C said:

There's been numerous instances of T1s becoming terrified of insulin after T1 threads getting swamped by T2s talking nonsense about how insulin should be avoided as much as possible because it'll make them fat, put them on a constant roller-coaster, hypoing all the time, and that outdated gibberish the Law of Small Numbers.

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And just as many instances of T1s giving incorrect advice to T2s in relation to diet. It is very common, believe me.