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With the rise of T2 Diabetes why aren't food companies required to put the GI index on Carb rich foods like bread?

W

What is in a name

Member
Messages
15
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
So, I was told ages ago to switch out white bread for brown. I found a brown I liked and did just that.
Now it seems my blood sugar is spiked by the bread I switched to and have to find an alternative.
What a minefield! Wholemeal, whole grain, protein bread, bread with bird seeds in it.
I know it may be down to the individual and now they react to carbohydrates (which even diabetics need)
but it would be a lot easier if bread, pasta and rice companies and those who use carbs in their process, had to list the GI index!
After all, they have to list sugar, salt, E numbers etc; So why not GI?
Rant over.
 
I’ve never considered GI, for me 1) I don’t think it works 2) far too complicated to work out when I only need to look at carbs to see if it’s suitable for me. I have to disagree with your statement slightly here

I know it may be down to the individual and now they react to carbohydrates (which even diabetics need

I agree it’s down to the individual how they react to carbs, & personal choice how much they consume, we are all different and some can tolerate more carbs than others, but no one needs carbs, especially diabetics, all carbs turn to sugar whatever their source, I’ve survived quite happily for 7 years on less than 20g carb a day, before that 9 years on around 50-90g carb a day (I was on Gliclizide at the time so had risk of hypos)

Like @Antje77, although we have very different types of diabetes I avoid all rice, pasta, most fruits, all flour based products, I do eat low carb bread bought on line.
 
Carbohydrates (all carbohydrates) will elevate blood glucose as they are digested to glucose. That's just chemistry, and brown or white makes no difference to me. Who told you to switch to brown bread?

Carbohydrates are not in fact essential and we can manage quite well without them, once adapted. The liver will make the c.130g glucose that the central nervous system needs, via a process called gluconeogenesis. Unfortunately the official "health" advice is still that everyone (T2 diabetics included) should base meals around carbohydrates. Until that changes it's unlikely that there will be any serious examination of foods that drive high levels of blood glucose. Bilous and Donnelly (Handbook of Diabetes, ch 11 pg 91 5th ed) point out that carbs in the diet are the biggest single influence on blood glucose levels.

Many people (and I'm one of them) find GI less than helpful - it tells very little about the BG impact the food might have. There are a number of low carb (<3g/roll) "bread" substitutes around and while none I have tried is anything like "real bread" they do allow bacon sandwiches. For example, a couple of the several brands available are Heylo or SRSLY.
 
think although white bread spike up is a lot shorter and slightly higher. brown for me seems to be slightly lower elevated however for a slightly longer duration. difference digestable carb wise (carbs listed in uk remove the fibre) is pretty much zero when average out the time period by the spike in level. there is GI index available in several places this one i've found is fine. https://www.verywellhealth.com/glycemic-index-chart-for-common-foods-1087476

You can slow down digestion with fats. which will cause less of a spike try slice of bread just by itself, then with butter and finally with both butter and a thin slice of cheese. average sugars will be up over the time, however less of rise. (at least for me anyway)
 
I eat low carb and never bother with GI values and brown alternatives. You might find a continuous blood sugar monitor useful to see exactly what carbs do to your blood sugar levels @What is in a name . You could then compare white and brown carbs to see if it is really worth changing white to brown or indeed if it’s worth omitting the carbs all together.

If you’d like to try a free 15 day trial of the Freestyle LIBRE 2 plus follow this link:

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Dexcom also offer a free trial of their Dexcom one + here

The Dexcom ONE+ CGM (Continuous Glucose Montoring) system | Dexcom
 
The best low GI bread I found was the fresh baked Lidl Low GI loaf it tastes great and is full of seeds nuts wholmeal etc. But using a Constant Glucose Monitor I found it still spikes my blood Glucose. I've found that SchneiderBrot whole grain rye bread (£1.50 from Fresh bread aisle in Tesco's) does not spike my blood glucose and it last ages in the fridge, but its very different from a normal bread. I use it as a snack with pate, cheeses or baked beans ( M&S sugar free 50p ).
I'm currently trying Sainsburys ranges of pea and Lentil based pasta to avoid the Flour based glucose spike.
I'm trying to reintroduce foods into my diet after going totally low carb for 2 months ( no flour no rice, no potatoes, no pasta = Hba1c of 5.8) You really do not need carbs in your diet if your control is bad. Try looking at the TV series for low glucose tips on https://www.channel4.com/programmes/eat-smart-secrets-of-the-glucose-goddess
 
I tend to agree with all of the advice stated here. For me my light bulb moment was actually going against advice from my diabetic nurse and trying to avoid all carbs. I never used to eat a breakfast or much bread out of personal preference but since being diagnosed with T2 I was told to eat porridge and wholemeal bread. This I dutifully did for about 15 years as I watched my T2 condition slowly worsen with more meds needed over time and worsening blood sugar values.
I don't know what first prompted it but I embarked on a low carb diet and tried to avoid all the cereals, potatoes, pastries, fruits, rice and pasta etc. Instead enjoying meats, cheeses, nuts, full fat creamy yoghurt etc and found that my diabetes markers reduced dramatically.
I don't use GI as a guide but like others have said the total carbs per portion or 100g value is an excellent indicator of what is likely to be good or bad. My wife hates shopping with me as we have to examine the often small print on the food packaging to work out the good, the bad and the downright ugly values. I wished the carb values were that little bit more stand out rather than hidden in the small print.
Agreed it is a minefield especially as medical advice still recommends a carby diet so maybe experiment with lower carb alternatives even a CGM to see for yourself what is good and what is bad for your own blood sugar values. That way you can make your own informed choices and use the science.
 
KennyA said:
Carbohydrates (all carbohydrates) will elevate blood glucose as they are digested to glucose. That's just chemistry, and brown or white makes no difference to me. Who told you to switch to brown bread?
Click to expand...

I was told to switch as well by my endo when I was first diagnosed and on Metformin (and before I was put on insulin)

He said that there may be no difference in the carbs and both ended up producing the same amount of glucose, but white bread was converted quickly and could cause a spike (above 10) whereas the brown bread took longer to convert to glucose which mean I had a better chance of staying below 10 all the time.

It wasn't explicitly stated, but was one of those comments that caused to think that staying at say 8 for 3 hours was preferable to spiking over 10 for 15-30 minutes before dropping to say 5-6 within an hour, which confused me as the 'test after 2 hours' message may be think it didn't matter how high you went before the 2 hours as you returned to normal levels quite quickly.
 
There is a case for avoiding lots of ups and downs with blood glucose but the main benefit of wholemeal/ brown is probably the extra fibre and trace nutrients that haven't been removed, which benefit you in other ways than just diabetes control.

I don't eat enough bread/ pasta to bother with wholemeal but on the rare occasions I eat potato I want the skin left on - tastes nicer too!
 
What is in a name said:
After all, they have to list sugar, salt, E numbers etc; So why not GI?
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is just too hard to determine accurately. I would assume there is laboratory equipment that can determine the carb content, protein, etc and manufacturers would know what additives have been added and so it should be relatively easy to test these independently.

But GI is about it affects our blood sugar and as we are all different it can affect us differently, which makes it difficult to verify independently (and probably expensive if it requires real human trials).

Also, as I understand it, the printed ingredients values don't really change, i.e. potatoes are the same regardless of whether you roast or boil or mash them and toasting your bread doesn't change the carb content.

But that does not apply to GI as can change depending on what is done with the food. Even letting a banana ripen can increase its GI.
 
Personally, I would strongly prefer to have the sort of BG reaction that you see in non-diabetic people - that's a relatively rapid rise, and an equally rapid fall so that at the +2hr point you're roughly where you started. From a starting point of low 5s a small latte (only a few grams of carbs from just the milk lactose, no sucrose) will take me to 9.6 in 40 minutes, but I'm back to low 5s by the one hour point, and I'm more than OK with that. It only becomes apparent via CGM, very hard to catch with fingerpricks.


If you have a look at this study, which is non-diabetic people using CGMs, that's the sort of response they show. BG goes a bit higher a bit longer as the carb content of the meal increases, which seems logical.

Continuous Glucose Monitoring Profiles in Healthy Nondiabetic Participants: A Multicenter Prospective Study - PMC

Use of continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) is increasing for insulin-requiring patients with diabetes. Although data on glycemic profiles of healthy, nondiabetic individuals exist for older sensors, assessment of glycemic metrics with new-generation ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
That's interesting. The Glucose Goddess is a advocate for lowering the spike. She advocates a tablespoon or two of Apple Cider Vinegar with mothers in a glass of water before a meal, it worked on her as she wore a glucose metre for quite some time to plot the effects on blood sugar of various food stuffs.
 
It was my GP who told me not to totally exclude carbs from my diet because they were needed.So go figure !
I think we can all agree that low carb is the way to go though.
 
Thanks for the bread tips, I'll try those.
 
I'll have to try that! The Glucose Goddess recommends "dressing your carbs in cloths" by that she means adding things like protein to carbs to dampen the spike of the sugar rush.
 
What is in a name said:
The Glucose Goddess recommends "dressing your carbs in cloths" by that she means adding things like protein to carbs to dampen the spike of the sugar rush.
Click to expand...
I've never heard it called that but I'm trying never to eat fruit on its own any more, only at the end of a meal or with meat or cheese.
 
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