Worrying Developments In My Blood Glucose

Messages
21
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
I am posting here and will put all the information I have, please forgive me for a first long-wall-of-text, it will be formatted nicely ...

In 2015 April, I was put on antibiotics course to eradicate some kind of bacteria. I had side effects and one of them was sweet taste in my mouth. I made a mistake of "Googling" and found diabetes. Went to my GP, who did the tests, where my HBA1c was 4.4, fasting was 4.7 but due to fears of it, I restricted carbs and had 3-4+ ketones in my urine. I was told it is not diabetes, to finish the course, that it is side effects and to eat the carbs. I did this and seem to have gradually gotten better with disappearing taste and good feeling after eating.

In 2017, November I was at my job, and my wisdom teeth started to bother me. I felt unwell and had not much appetite which resulted in me not eating much, apart from some nuts for 2-3 days. I was understandably undernourished. On Saturday, I felt hunger again and went on to consume really sweet cake, which launched my symptoms from 2015 again: sweet taste in my mouth, unwell, stomach pain and nausea. I went to the hospital this time, told them to measure my BG which was 6.7 and told them about my situation in 2015. The staff sent me to my GP, who have done the following tests:

* HBA1c: 4.7
* Fasting: 3.9

However, I have "failed" his GTT, since after two hours my BG went to 10.2. This concerned him, and I was sent to endocrinologist. That guy was quite thorough: he told me it is good I am on low-carb diet until we find out what it is. Did the tests such as c-peptide, antibodies for type 1 diabetes (GAD, IA-2, ICA, ZnT8) and tests like fructosamine. He also tested me on the spot for some kind of "gas" in my blood, probably fearing of ketoacidosis because of 3-4+ ketones in urine. My c-peptide was slightly below normal range, with all antibodies negative, i.e. they did not even detect them. HBA1c and fructosamine was "normal". He said it is unlikely to be type 1 diabetes and that I could have failed glucose tolerance test because of low-carb diet, calling it "glucose sparing" state. When questioned about low c-peptide, he said since you are on low-carb diet and with normal fasting glucose, low c-peptide does not tell anything.

I have read about physiological insulin resistance but let me update on my situation. I do not think that this state can explain what is happening for me anymore. In December, I was eating healthy low-carb meals such as meats and vegetables, fats such as nuts, oils, coconuts and avocadoes. I enjoy this type of eating, it is filling and satisfying. I also monitored my BG and have never seen it go above 6.0 with such menu. However, now it is different. Example meals such as chicken with sauerkraut, leafy veggies and smoked pork lard, would send me above 6.0. I would stay there longer as well. I can also tell without blood glucose meter when I am at certain level now. When I am below 5.5, all is good. When I am above it, I get a slight headache. When I am above 6.0, I get pressure in my eyes and some dizziness. Also, I became very carb intolerant. Having eaten some yoghurt, sent me to 7.6. Banana has shown 8.0. Small piece of bread above 7. I already wrote to my endo who is on holiday about this situation, since he told me to see what happens if I add carbs. It seemed like he has never seen a case like me, who is carb intolerant with no autoimmunity markers and simply seem to not produce enough insulin (why else would I not digest a banana without spiking so much ...)

I have browsed some of the archives on this forum and googled some reddit posts on keto adaptation, but I have never seen people spiking to above 6 even with almost zero carb meals such as bacon and eggs. My family doctor told me that some people have strong pancreas, others can tolerate less carbs because their pancreas is just "weaker" so they have to adjust their diet accordingly. To me, it still sounds like diabetes.

Can someone enlighten me on the steps to take? I am inclined to visit some other endocrinologist but not sure if I could find one better qualified than the first: he is PhD in nutrition and fasting and type 1 diabetes specialist...
 

Rokaab

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,161
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
However, I have "failed" his GTT, since after two hours my BG went to 10.2. This concerned him, and I was sent to endocrinologist. That guy was quite thorough: he told me it is good I am on low-carb diet
That is correct, to get a valid result you really need to be eating a decent amount of carbs for a number of days before a GTT test, so it's not a surprise you failed it when on a low carb diet.

Also, I became very carb intolerant. Having eaten some yoghurt, sent me to 7.6. Banana has shown 8.0. Small piece of bread above 7.
When are you doing these tests? are they 2 hours after food?
Everyone's blood sugar level goes up after carbs no matter whether diabetic or not.
 

paulus1

Well-Known Member
Messages
843
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
how soon were you testing. your doctors have ruled out diabetes.but insulin residence is there.
 

paulus1

Well-Known Member
Messages
843
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
the ketones are a sign that your body was burning fat instead of carbs its what you aim for on a low carb diet. its only dodgy if tied to high bg levels
 
Messages
21
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
That is correct, to get a valid result you really need to be eating a decent amount of carbs for a number of days before a GTT test, so it's not a surprise you failed it when on a low carb diet.

the ketones are a sign that your body was burning fat instead of carbs its what you aim for on a low carb diet. its only dodgy if tied to high bg levels

how soon were you testing. your doctors have ruled out diabetes.but insulin residence is there.

When are you doing these tests? are they 2 hours after food?
Everyone's blood sugar level goes up after carbs no matter whether diabetic or not.

Those tests are done usually after two hours, yes. I also sometimes test randomly and rarely see BGs below 5 anymore. This is very worrying development for me.



That is the problem - meals contain very few carbs. If my meals contain a bunch of them, I see huge glucose spike.
 
Messages
21
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Can someone else advice? It seems like there is an issue processing glucose in my body but antibodies were not detected. Things definitely got worse over the last two months with regards to how much same meal would raise my BG but I am in the dark about what to do about it.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I have been in ketosis for the past 18 months (most of the time anyway).
I'm pretty sure if I ate a banana my blood sugar would go through the roof, I have no intention of trying though.
I did an OGTT last September without carbing up first. My bloods peaked at 12.8 after 75 minutes and at 1 1/2 hours were 10.3 at two hours they had gone back to 5.7 after the pre test reading of 5.2. Did they take any readings after your 2 hour reading? I tested every 15 minutes when I did mine.
Have you had your fasting insulin tested? That's where I would be going next... get a fasting insulin and a blood glucose test from the same blood draw and you can calculate your insulin resistance. That may give you a bit more info on what your b ody is doing.
 
Messages
21
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
I have been in ketosis for the past 18 months (most of the time anyway).
I'm pretty sure if I ate a banana my blood sugar would go through the roof, I have no intention of trying though.
I did an OGTT last September without carbing up first. My bloods peaked at 12.8 after 75 minutes and at 1 1/2 hours were 10.3 at two hours they had gone back to 5.7 after the pre test reading of 5.2. Did they take any readings after your 2 hour reading? I tested every 15 minutes when I did mine.
Have you had your fasting insulin tested? That's where I would be going next... get a fasting insulin and a blood glucose test from the same blood draw and you can calculate your insulin resistance. That may give you a bit more info on what your b ody is doing.

Yes, after 2.5 hours it was 7.6, after 3.5 it was 3.9. My fasting insulin was not tested. I only had c-peptide and it was slightly below normal range for the lab. My family doctor thinks eating low-carb should not alter the glucose response too much. The Internet tells me of cases where it happens. I personally think that after being 3 months into low-carb eating and not seeing improvements in my BGs, that there is a problem, and maybe I need to go to another endo and explain my concerns. Not sure what they can do about this at this stage though ...
 

bulkbiker

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Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
My family doctor thinks eating low-carb should not alter the glucose response too much
Not sure what you or your doc means by that? Eating low carb will have a major impact on your blood glucose.. whether it will alter your response is a matter for discussion as your OGTT test results show. However I still get readings over 6 sometimes but get HbA1c results in the high 20's. I'm not sure where you think your problem is. I'm not convinced that you have one... I presume you measure before and after all your meals? What are your results for the last few days with food examples if you don't mind sharing?
 

Circuspony

Well-Known Member
Messages
959
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
How long after eating are you testing your BG levels? There was a recent post somewhere on here showing that non-diabetics can easily go spike to levels of 10 after eating, but will come down again within the 2 hour timeframe they suggest for testing. Going to 8 for a banana would not suggest diabetes to me.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
Well, your HbA1c and fasting tests are great. And your GTT failed because you are low carbing. Just because your doc doesn't know about this doesn't prevent it from happening.
So I would look elsewhere for a cause of your symptoms.

And I think... um... perhaps it would be better for you to stop testing with such regularity. It isn't always helpful. It can make people overly concerned and stressed, and then that stress has its own impact on blood glucose.

It is perfectly normal for a normal person's blood glucose to rise and fall during the day, even when eating low carb. Although of course the extent of the rise and fall will vary from person to person depending on them, their exercise, food (I mean HOW low carb is low carb?), drink, stress, sleep and many other factors.
 
Messages
21
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Not sure what you or your doc means by that? Eating low carb will have a major impact on your blood glucose.. whether it will alter your response is a matter for discussion as your OGTT test results show. However I still get readings over 6 sometimes but get HbA1c results in the high 20's. I'm not sure where you think your problem is. I'm not convinced that you have one... I presume you measure before and after all your meals? What are your results for the last few days with food examples if you don't mind sharing?

Meals: chicken and leafy veggies, sauerkraut, cucumber, fish and veggies, smoked pork lard, lots of sunflower seeds. 90% dark chocolate in moderation. My BGs are usually 5.x and after meals sometimes goes up to 6.5. However, if I add some carbs such as a small piece of bread, or anything generally around 10g of carbs, I will go to 7.6 or similar.

My results for the last few days: fasting always around 5.0-5.5. During the day, before the meals similar measurements. After the meal examples above, above 6 but never reach 7. I can tell when my BG is normal, i.e. below 5.0. When it is around 5.5, I have slight headache, when it is above 6, I get slight sweating, pressure in my eyes and so on. When I got above 7 with that bread slice, I felt dizzy, nauseous and unwell. I don't feel good with BGs that are 5.x something, but I don't get below 5s anymore. I thought keto should make one's BG very stable and in low-mid 4s.

How long after eating are you testing your BG levels? There was a recent post somewhere on here showing that non-diabetics can easily go spike to levels of 10 after eating, but will come down again within the 2 hour timeframe they suggest for testing. Going to 8 for a banana would not suggest diabetes to me.

After 1 or 2 hours. I believe there could be the case, but I also read a study with CGMs where Chinese subjects have never gone above 7, eating their usual meals of rice, and other carb-rich foods. It seems that even an international agreement is to be at below 7.8 after 2 hours of any meal.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Meals: chicken and leafy veggies, sauerkraut, cucumber, fish and veggies, smoked pork lard, lots of sunflower seeds. 90% dark chocolate in moderation. My BGs are usually 5.x and after meals sometimes goes up to 6.5. However, if I add some carbs such as a small piece of bread, or anything generally around 10g of carbs, I will go to 7.6 or similar.

My results for the last few days: fasting always around 5.0-5.5. During the day, before the meals similar measurements. After the meal examples above, above 6 but never reach 7. I can tell when my BG is normal, i.e. below 5.0. When it is around 5.5, I have slight headache, when it is above 6, I get slight sweating, pressure in my eyes and so on. When I got above 7 with that bread slice, I felt dizzy, nauseous and unwell. I don't feel good with BGs that are 5.x something, but I don't get below 5s anymore. I thought keto should make one's BG very stable and in low-mid 4s.



After 1 or 2 hours. I believe there could be the case, but I also read a study with CGMs where Chinese subjects have never gone above 7, eating their usual meals of rice, and other carb-rich foods. It seems that even an international agreement is to be at below 7.8 after 2 hours of any meal.
Sounds like you might have a case of PIR (Physiological Insulin Resistance) whereby your body not being used to having carbs overreacts when you do eat some? This is apparently "curable" by having a few higher carb days or by not eating carbs of course. Had you heard of/thought of this?
 
Messages
21
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Sounds like you might have a case of PIR (Physiological Insulin Resistance) whereby your body not being used to having carbs overreacts when you do eat some? This is apparently "curable" by having a few higher carb days or by not eating carbs of course. Had you heard of/thought of this?

Yes, I did read a lot about this. Also, thank you for taking your time to respond to my concerns.

Actually, my first endo might have explained this to me as PIR but he used different terms. The problem is that after having attempted to break out of it, I failed. My BGs did not come back to reasonable after eating carbs for a few days and this forced me to reconsider.

In addition, I remember a few episodes few months back, when I went out with coworkers for a meal. We ate hamburgers and fries, drank beer. I remember sweating eating all of it. I also felt very similarly as in during my OGTT after such meals. I was ignorant about measuring my blood glucose back then but I get similar feelings after my attempts to eat more carbs. Finally, there is a trend in rise of my HBa1c but it was not noted as significant by any doc: 2015 (4.4), 2017 June (4.8), 2018 Dec (4.9). I have not tested yet, but I could be it would be higher.
 

Emile_the_rat

Well-Known Member
Messages
246
Type of diabetes
Type 1.5
Treatment type
Insulin
Sorry for long post, honesly I don’t see whats wrong with any of your tests. All your blood tests and measurements of blood glucose are within the normal range. Even 10.2 mmol aren’t remarkable high or of any concerns if you were on a low-carb diet prior to taking an OGTT. Low carb diet can affect OGTT results.

Can I ask why you are so concerned, besides nausea and sweet taste? Nausea after eating are not a common symptom of diabetes, not unless you have a severe hyperglycemia, and you’re nowhere near that with blood sugar always below 11. Have you got checked for anything else?

Not saying that sweet taste in the mouth are normal, but nausea and stomach pain can be caused by several other conditions. I totaly understand your concern of diabetes with that sweet taste after eating. But if you really had diabetes or were in the danger of developing diabetes your blood sugar would be remarkably higher.

You say you feel sick whenever your blood sugar go above 5.5-6.0 mmol. Blood sugar above that are normal and will never under any normal circumstances cause headache or pressure behind your eyes. Those problems have either other causes, or are a psychological effect because you have convinced yourself that eating carbs would make you sick. If carbs really made you sick or if you really had a weak pancreas it would have shown on your blood sugar with significant higher readings.

I do not agree at all that you have become carb intolerant. 8.0 mmol after a banana are completely normal, bananas does wonders when you have a hypo (abnormal low blood sugar) because it’s stacked with carbs. Yoghurts aren’t «healthy» and has it’s fair amount of carbs aswell, so getting 7.6 after that are not unusual. You can get these kind of reading even on low-carb because your liver stores glycagen that are released into your bloodstream when your low on carbs, rising your blood sugar to prevent a hypo. Your body would break down fat-cells for glucose when your liver runs out of glycagen. Your body will always help to rise your blood sugar, even when you do not get any carbs to prevent that your cells runs out of glucose. A low-carb diet won’t necessary mean lower blood sugar. So getting normal blood sugar readings, even on zero-carbs does not mean that you have become carb intolerant.

I do not think you’re intolerant to carbs or that you have a weak pancreas. You are completely normal, 8.0 mmol are not high. Blood sugar can spike to 11 mmol the first hour after eating, and stay high for a while before it gods back down to 4-6 mmol. Many people can experience that after a banana, a yoghurt or some white bread, but it does not mean they have diabetes or are out of the normal. It is completely fine and normal. Nothing you write here make me think that you have diabetes or any other blood sugar related issue. I’m not saying this to be harsh, but honesly none of those readings indicate any sort of blood sugar related problem. I think you should check further for other possible causes of your problems.
 
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Emile_the_rat

Well-Known Member
Messages
246
Type of diabetes
Type 1.5
Treatment type
Insulin
Hey Emily, thanks for reassurance, it really helps. I will try to divert my attention to something else.

I’ve know the struggle you go through. Feeling odd and a bit off, but not knoting whats wrong yet. But there is help and it will get better :)