Excellent Ian and many congratulations, the thread is inspiring.To me it's obvious that low-carbing is the only way to go to maintain satisfactory blood glucose levels and prevent complications and the low carb cake is lovely, Debra x
X-PERT Course
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It looks as though you had a different experience to me on your Xpert course. I did one Feb 2009, so it seems things have moved on re lower carb diets and much more.
The advice about testing was: test in the morning, but not every day and then only again if your BG is too high or low. We were told to go to GP if BG was too high - I asked how people would know if they were hardly ever testing. Most of the people on the course had trouble getting enough strips from their GP.
Many of the folk there found the course informative and went away with more idea about nutrition than they came with (which I guess is one of the aims). However, the dietry advice was interesting. In the literature, it stated that diabetics should aim for 150g carbs a day. This, and any reference to eating any less than the 300-400 DUK recommendations were quickly glossed over, and in fact, the DUK recommendations were repeated quite often, like a mantra.
The demonstrations of portion sizes went down well. Interestingly, the suggested portion sizes of carbs would take folk well over the 150g carbs per day in the daily diets which were being discussed. I could keep a count after excelling at the 'let's guess the carbs in these photos of foods'.
I found the whole idea of the course very useful. I still look at the literature from time to time as they had good nutritional tables in there - but overall came away wondering more about the contradictions between the advice given by the trained professionals running the course and the printed material.
The advice about testing was: test in the morning, but not every day and then only again if your BG is too high or low. We were told to go to GP if BG was too high - I asked how people would know if they were hardly ever testing. Most of the people on the course had trouble getting enough strips from their GP.
Many of the folk there found the course informative and went away with more idea about nutrition than they came with (which I guess is one of the aims). However, the dietry advice was interesting. In the literature, it stated that diabetics should aim for 150g carbs a day. This, and any reference to eating any less than the 300-400 DUK recommendations were quickly glossed over, and in fact, the DUK recommendations were repeated quite often, like a mantra.
The demonstrations of portion sizes went down well. Interestingly, the suggested portion sizes of carbs would take folk well over the 150g carbs per day in the daily diets which were being discussed. I could keep a count after excelling at the 'let's guess the carbs in these photos of foods'.
I found the whole idea of the course very useful. I still look at the literature from time to time as they had good nutritional tables in there - but overall came away wondering more about the contradictions between the advice given by the trained professionals running the course and the printed material.
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MrsMurray said:
Sorry for the time lag - I've reviewed the thread in response to a PM.
Perhaps the difference between your experience & mine was the fact that I was invited following contact with the dietitian leading the course, as an example to the newly diagnosed. I was able to speak freely & challenge dietary aspects of the course from a position of experience.
I've just attended week 2 of x-pert course today and left a bit bamboozled to say the least.
I have been following all the advice on this forum and low carbing seems to be giving great BG results. However, the way it was explained today about eating more carbs and low fat seemed plausible.
They were recommending buying low fat products eg philadelphia light. I queried this as the low fat always contain more carbs than the full fat equivalent. I was told that there isn't ususally that much more carbs and that the low fat products are healthier. I had stopped using "light" products and had started buying the full fat but lower carb equivalents. Am I right or wrong doing this? The DSN advised me to always buy "light". The book compared a low fat diet with a high fat and the figures did seem to confim that low fat was best :? I have been watching the carbs on all labels and ignoring the cals and fat. Could this be affecting my high cholesterol too?
The way she explained it seemed to confirm that this is the reason that I am not losing weight. Her healthy eating plate is nothing like mine :!:
Carbs are being discussed in more depth next week so maybe it will make more sense then.
Will just have to wait and see.
I have been following all the advice on this forum and low carbing seems to be giving great BG results. However, the way it was explained today about eating more carbs and low fat seemed plausible.
They were recommending buying low fat products eg philadelphia light. I queried this as the low fat always contain more carbs than the full fat equivalent. I was told that there isn't ususally that much more carbs and that the low fat products are healthier. I had stopped using "light" products and had started buying the full fat but lower carb equivalents. Am I right or wrong doing this? The DSN advised me to always buy "light". The book compared a low fat diet with a high fat and the figures did seem to confim that low fat was best :? I have been watching the carbs on all labels and ignoring the cals and fat. Could this be affecting my high cholesterol too?
The way she explained it seemed to confirm that this is the reason that I am not losing weight. Her healthy eating plate is nothing like mine :!:
Carbs are being discussed in more depth next week so maybe it will make more sense then.
Will just have to wait and see.
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That was a direct link to the course manual - alas no longer. I can't now find the manual on line. I've found my book now (after several days.) It was hidden in a folder in the drawer where I keep all my diabetes stuff.IanD said:
That's on p. 27. It looks dangerously misleading, as the the comparison is totally unrealistic & unfair:
Low fat / high fat
Calories: 1871/4420
Fat: 40 g /234 g
Carb: 292 g / 423 g
Just looking at the evening meal, NO-ONE on any diet & wishing to lose weight would choose - meat pie & chips followed by apple pie & cream. 1779 cals, 97 g fat, 190 g carb all in one meal.
A fair comparison would be to reduce the figures to provide equal calories, & then the HF diet provides:
fat: 99 g & carb: 179 g
That is a reasonable amount of fat, still an excessive amount of carbs. An easy refinement - third comparison, would be cut out the pastry, chips, biscuits & fruit juice.
Hope that helps - I'll be interested to see what the course leader says.
CollieBoy
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IanD,
Annual Update !! You lucky b*****r, I did mine in spring/summer 2009, then NOTHING :evil: :evil: !! Mind you every, course I try to do, the PCT aren't funding/supporting it. :evil: :evil:
Annual Update !! You lucky b*****r, I did mine in spring/summer 2009, then NOTHING :evil: :evil: !! Mind you every, course I try to do, the PCT aren't funding/supporting it. :evil: :evil:
Thanks Ian
I never thought of it from that angle. You are right in what you are saying.
I suppose I am getting information from all angles and being bombarded with different ideas/figures etc. I am trying to figure out the best way to go from here. I am the type of person who sees things from the point of view from whoever is telling me at that time. That's probably part of my problem. Reading low carb info and I think that's best way to go then listening to DSN who makes low fat diet sound best (even though it has more carbs). As you can tell I am easily swayed!
Will just have to take all info on board and do what suits me.
Marina
I never thought of it from that angle. You are right in what you are saying.
I suppose I am getting information from all angles and being bombarded with different ideas/figures etc. I am trying to figure out the best way to go from here. I am the type of person who sees things from the point of view from whoever is telling me at that time. That's probably part of my problem. Reading low carb info and I think that's best way to go then listening to DSN who makes low fat diet sound best (even though it has more carbs). As you can tell I am easily swayed!
Will just have to take all info on board and do what suits me.
Marina
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Interesting morning - course leader asked us (about 25) to update our experience & indicate problem areas. One problem (I share) was the glut of apples this autumn! That affects our control.
[My HBA was up from 6.1 to 6.3, & the total chol down from 6.3 to 5.3. Kidney function (eGFR) was 61, where is has been for at least 6 years - long before low carb. My Dr is satisfied.]
Everyone had benefited from the course.
Principle problems were: no prescribed test strips & what to snack on. A cry of shock went up when I recommended full fat cheese - without bread or biscuits. Only I mentioned nuts - there is a concern about their fat content - leader recommended them.
One man - struggling to get control with other health problems - was refused prescribed test strips as they would measure HBA regularly. Regularly was annual! Others 3 months. [My Dr happily prescribes test strips for me - even though he has been told not to. He knows that good control avoids more expensive problems from lack of control.]
Another had achieved good control (below 6) & restored health by reduced calories - about 1600 daily. His weight is down 2 st to 10-7 & he feels like a teenager.
The Newcastle diet was considered - bound to reduce blood sugar with so few cals, but a sustained sensible diet was necessary to maintain control.
Course leader stressed carb control, & gave a printout of my almond cake-bread recipe.
The latest edition of the course manual was given out- #7. Thats 4 editions since Jan 2010. The same unfair comparison of low fat vs high fat was given. The diet plate still has a tiny sector including both sugar & fat. I pointed out the fallacies & leader recommended I write to them.
This web site was not mentioned on the handouts. Leader asked me to write in in on the master copy, so hopefully we'll be there. I plugged it as a better source of real advice from other patients, rather than the stock advice from DUK.
[My HBA was up from 6.1 to 6.3, & the total chol down from 6.3 to 5.3. Kidney function (eGFR) was 61, where is has been for at least 6 years - long before low carb. My Dr is satisfied.]
Everyone had benefited from the course.
Principle problems were: no prescribed test strips & what to snack on. A cry of shock went up when I recommended full fat cheese - without bread or biscuits. Only I mentioned nuts - there is a concern about their fat content - leader recommended them.
One man - struggling to get control with other health problems - was refused prescribed test strips as they would measure HBA regularly. Regularly was annual! Others 3 months. [My Dr happily prescribes test strips for me - even though he has been told not to. He knows that good control avoids more expensive problems from lack of control.]
Another had achieved good control (below 6) & restored health by reduced calories - about 1600 daily. His weight is down 2 st to 10-7 & he feels like a teenager.
The Newcastle diet was considered - bound to reduce blood sugar with so few cals, but a sustained sensible diet was necessary to maintain control.
Course leader stressed carb control, & gave a printout of my almond cake-bread recipe.
The latest edition of the course manual was given out- #7. Thats 4 editions since Jan 2010. The same unfair comparison of low fat vs high fat was given. The diet plate still has a tiny sector including both sugar & fat. I pointed out the fallacies & leader recommended I write to them.
This web site was not mentioned on the handouts. Leader asked me to write in in on the master copy, so hopefully we'll be there. I plugged it as a better source of real advice from other patients, rather than the stock advice from DUK.
CollieBoy
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I attended course in 2009 in LANCASHIRE. 
Was on insulin at time and "leaders " talked almost exclusively about tablets & Diet and exercise. :cry:
Taught me that I needed to teach myself and not rely on being taught :evil:
At the time I was more"compliant" now what a HCP says is merely noted and evaluated for value eg Carbs, statins fats etc. :twisted:
Was on insulin at time and "leaders " talked almost exclusively about tablets & Diet and exercise. :cry:
Taught me that I needed to teach myself and not rely on being taught :evil:
At the time I was more"compliant" now what a HCP says is merely noted and evaluated for value eg Carbs, statins fats etc. :twisted:
Dear Ian
Thank you for this information. You give me hope that I can control this illness myself. I am also trying low carb and at first was very confused with the information that I was given. To me carbohydrate = conversion to sugar, so needs to be monitored.
I think you are brilliant and I admire you for sharing what you have learnt with others. Hope your good health continues.
Thank you for this information. You give me hope that I can control this illness myself. I am also trying low carb and at first was very confused with the information that I was given. To me carbohydrate = conversion to sugar, so needs to be monitored.
I think you are brilliant and I admire you for sharing what you have learnt with others. Hope your good health continues.
