1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

You can measure your own Insulin Resistance !

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by CherryAA, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178

    Thanks Mr Pot . In the end I'm not trying to peddle anyone's work or presume some massive breakthrough, I am well aware that for most things, if one could discover it, then someone already did - hence my internet search on the subject. I'm also conscious that with any idea someone has to start somewhere - including Mr Banting a century ago !

    I don't think anyone yet has reported back any actual figures that suggest the idea is total rubbish so for me it will just be another one of the things I look at on each blood test going forward with rather more perceptive eyes - especially as regards what is or isn't normal !
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Thank you for your suggestion however from my own perspective I cannot think of anything worse that a diet made entirely of vegetables and carbohydrates as a solution to my own metabolism issues - not least because that was pretty much what gave them to me !
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178
    The point to me is that I have these tests going back 20 years, I don't have the others, so when I see them now I can see them in context. I can never know what my hab1C was when I was metabolically healthy but I already know what this ratio was back then.
     
  4. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178

    I don't take any medications for diabetes, and hence had not factored that into my approach, clearly others who do would also need to be aware of that.

    Iit is the fact that the formula does seem to be so diet sensitive that intruiges me most, because maybe it would have a different profile depending on the dietary solution adopted - LCHF, vegetarian, paleo, VLC, ND etc ?
     
  5. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178
    One things I have noticed - using my libre - is that on a normal day - i.e. fasting overnight, three meals, max 30g carbs in total - and restricted calories - my daily average blood glucose is about 0.3 mmol higher than my overnight average fasting glucose - this is pretty much standard - so I actually know what my average daily glucose is likely to be just from the daily fasting average. ( it goes up closer to 0.8 mmol if I eat a non calorie restricted amount ) the gap has rarely if ever been above 1 mmol.

    The corollary of that would be that working backwards - if you are following a restricted dietary regime, which has been fairly stable the chances are that your fasting blood glucose level will be about 0.3 less than the one derived from your hba1C .

    In any event if you buy the theory that trigs are meaningful to this in some fashion - the thing to check would be what are your trig readings over time and the thing to make sure of going forward would be to make sure that is is always a fasting trig measurement whilst also asking for your blood glucose to be checked at the same time as the blood sample for Hba1C is drawn
     
  6. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    14,302
    Likes Received:
    8,225
    Trophy Points:
    298
    LittleGreyCat- I'd suggest a quick consultation with Dr Google on lengthy fasting pre-lipid profile tests.

    If I recall, it isn't advised to fast more than something like 14 hours (that 14 might not be quite right) or the trigs are affected by that too.

    There's always some fly in the ointment, non?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178
    fyi

    The tests for Ogtt suggest 9 houts too . Mine are always done 9-12 hours
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178
    An alternative interpretation could be that the reason that T2 is still considered progressive, is that most T2 meds are doing the wrong thing because you really don't want more glucose in your fat stores - including presumably your visceral fat . Instead you need to get the stuff out of your fat stores . So its not the formula that is sensitive to food, its the diabetes that is sensitive to food - as preached for example by Dr Fung.
    ie The disease is not high blood glucose, that is simply the manifestation of the disease, the disease is high insulin levels. thus the index measures the right thing, the meds do the wrong thing.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,805
    Likes Received:
    3,349
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I agree with the points you make here, but I am still having difficulty understanding the theory behind the formula, and how it mught relate to either my level of resistance to insulin, or even my level of insulin in my bloodstream.

    If we forget the log function and the times 2 factor which are fixed values, the two variables are fasting trigs and fasting bgl.
    Now my trigs currently changes once a year which is the only time my GP will authorise a lipid panel blood check, What it does on the remaining 364.25 days I have not a jot of evidence,

    My FBGL varies on a daily basis, and can be heavily influenced by what I ate the night before, So unless there is a mechanism for averaging it before putting it into the formula than it is also just a moment in time, but not indicative of where I am at generally. (Note the lab check is also not daily and tends to be a 3 monthly or yearly blood test like the trigs check mentioed above)

    So I have this dilemma, The formula is very dependant on what my last meal was before the sample was taken, and may jump suddenly once a year. How does it explain how successfully my insulin is generated or utilised? If I change my meds regime during the year, or change my diet during the year then these may have strong influence on the figures.

    This is why I prefer to consider the OGTT as a basis for measuring my actual resistance by tracking the first response insulin phase following a defined step change stimulus. I think that with the introduction of CGMs then they will be able to develop a support app to measure the AUC (area under curve) of the response as an automatic function, so making the measurement repeatable and open to all without needing a lab check in the back room.
     
  10. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    2,042
    Trophy Points:
    178

    I'm not saying that this formula is by any means perfect. It is simply a means to check out a hypothesis.

    This is where I am going with this

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/a-unifying-theory-of-disease.1795/


    FASTING INSULIN OVER TIME ON LCHF
    and N=1 evidence that the Trig Index formula is a precursor to diabetes diagnosis absent fasting insulin data



    Insulin resistance2.png insulin - time on lchf diet 70% fat.png
     
    • Like Like x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook