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You guys were right...met the diabetic nurse!

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I agree with all of that! But you are entitled to and should say "this is what I did and what is currently working for me"
 

Hi Mike, @BooJewels has said this so well.

You are clearly Non Diabetic, most definitely through your weight loss, therefore you can tolerate the carbs like any person without diabetes, but you do not appear to be listening to all these people saying the same to you. If you were in the diabetic range (which you are not) doing a 5-2 diet with heavy carbs would be spiking you and raising your sugars

If 250 to 500 carbs a day is possible for you to eat, then why on earth are you testing, there is no point, except maybe for the fasting test just to make sure you are not creeping back.

You said "However youre eating things that don't spike your blood sugar, so am I" so what is spiking your blood sugar?

Neil
 


Yay! Well done poshtotty. I'm very pleased for you.
 
Throughout all of thesepostings though another thing strikes me...
Mikej1973 having lost some weight is clearly not a "normal,healthy" size.
Until he has reached that, then his wordings are still only what has lowered blood levels... Not what has dropped back to full,good health.
A diet that works effectively would be shifting 2lb a week every week. Mikes diet although has lost some weight isn't a perfect all round diet...otherwise he would be perfect weight as well now.
 

Morning!

My point that I'm making is that to get from diabetic to non diabetic I did what I'm doing now!! The weight loss was key we all seem to agree on! But I was testing while I lost weight and as my blood sugar dropped.

Hot cross buns spike me like a boss. 2 and I'm 9.5 two hours later. A lot of white bread spikes me for example half a baguette will have me 8.5. I've only had one Chinese post diagnosis but it was recently. 7.5 on 2 hours 9 on 3 hours that was very gluttonous meal though. I've had a couple of pizzas but over 5 hours they haven't spiked me.

Even when my HBA1c was 60 potatoes, porridge fruit (not tried a banana yet to be fair), wholemeal bread, sugary treats (very occasional) didn't get my bs over 7.5.

So I have a through, but not complete, idea.of what does what to my bs.

As to why im testing. I still have more knowledge to aquire and if I'm honest I still can't believe my luck.
 

You should have seen mikes diet before all of this!!!! But you are correct! And being a perfect weight presents new challenges. But I figure it's a challenge I'll be delighted to contend with!
 
mikej1973 said:
6 weeks later I did an oral glucose tolerance test 5.2 fasting and 4.8 at two hours.
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Hi Mike, I'm going to try once more to nail this but from what I have seen and read so far I doubt it.

Your a guy who has done exceptionally well by losing weight eating to your meter and now can eat between 250 & 500 carbs a day.

I say you are now Non Diabetic and I say that because of your BGT.

Diabetics reducing carbs and sugary things and getting the HbA1c into the 30s, would still spike on a BGT, you don't and that is the difference.

If you went to the Doctors now and had the BGT test, they would tell you you are NON diabetic, If I went, bearing in mind my HbA1c is 41 NON diabetic, because I am diabetic I would fail the test.

Neil
 

Mike - I think you have been very fortunate to be able to achieve what you have, and still be eating significant levels of carbs. You are tall, but still carrying some poundage, by your own admission. However, no matter what level you are eating at now, if you have given up sugary stuff (your own statement), then surely you have reduced your carb intake? A description of reduced carb is just that; not complying to anyone's definition of low/moderate or high carb. If you ate 500gr before, but now eat 450gr, you would still be reduced carb for you.

I truly wish you luck in your longer term journey, but I think until you have gone through the balancing act of a period of maintenance, instead of a period of reducing blood scores and-or reducing weight it is perhaps premature to state what works for you. It has worked to get you to a significantly progressed place in your journey, so far.

Again, I reiterate my best wishes to you, but this game is all bout the longer term, in my view. In my own circumstances, I have reduced my HbA1c levels to non-diabetic for over a year now, and I am very slight. My GP considers my diabetes to be resolved, and I do hope she's correct, but I don't push my luck in terms of what I eat and drink. I do have days when my diet is "near normal"; for example yesterday's evening meal was chip shop fish and chips, with a 2 hour post reading of 4.7. But I wouldn't have that every day; any more than I would have eaten that every day before diagnosis.

I eat fairly carefully, and intend to continue that way, but I eat a very varied diet in quite significant quantities (due I believe to a certain degree to dietary tuning to deal with fats), and actually eat more than my partner who is male, active and 6 inches taller than me. Sometimes he can't quite believe what I put away. I'm not bored in my way of eating at all, and there are still so many things I have to try.

Good luck with it all
 

Well done on your most recent progress Totty.

It's a while since I had any material nutritional discussion with an HCP, as I now just get the "keep doing what your doing" messages. However, I have had a number of long and "meaningful" discussions about my lipid levels, which, if totals are to be heeded, as somewhat high, but if the breakdowns are heeded are actually very good.

Time before last when I saw my GP she wanted to refer me to a Lipidologist to investigate what was going on. I left her with some reading material and YouTube view and she made a load of notes from our discussions, with an agreement I'd go back after a recently completed long trip overseas. At that appointment, my lipid totals had reduced, slightly, and the breakdowns improved again, and suddenly she had no desire to refer me for specialist input. She had also done her reading and viewing.

Elsewhere I flippantly commented that she's young, but can be trained. That comment was made with only the tip of my tongue in my cheek. For these poor, over-stretched HCPs, we have to help them out where we can.

Again, well done MsTotty.
 

I took the test because I wanted to challenge the original diagnosis based on my blood sugar readings from self testing. The results let to conversations with the specialist, which lead to the next HbA1c test which led to more consultations - they have decided, and I agree with them that I have Type 2 diabetes probably in remission. I'm still type two diabetic. I my act and behave Non Diabetic but like you I AM diabetic. I absolutely get the point you make. I have all along! but my GP (who's specialism is diabetes) had to consult a consultant. Who has decided I am diabetic and both my GP and I are inclined to agree. So I appreciate your diagnosis, but diabetes doesn't go away. It can be stood on and kept at bay, but it is there and I am dealing with it. The way I'm dealing with it has reduced my blood sugar ergo I'm happy to share that experience with people here, because it's real.. it happened.. therefore it may be of use to someone else! That's my point. I'm not standing up for my lifestyle.. I'm standing up for my right to tell people what has worked for me and to get from Diabetic to "Non diabetic" I didn't have a low carb approach. I had an NHS with self monitoring approach. I'm also regretting putting a figure on my carbs.. I don't low carb therefore I don't count carbs. I consider my carb intake is normal. Not excessive and not low.. I plan to count my carbs next week and see how that pans out.
 

Hi!

I have reduced carbs.. along with everything else (apart from fruit). That's a how diets work. Obviously depending on a specific diet plan the ratios can change. In lchf case fat goes up to compensate for carbs going down. My plan is to lose weight and lower blood sugar (ok keep it low now). The 5:2 element is about weight loss. I really do believe that non fasting days immediately after fasting days show lower blood sugar than 3 days after my last fasting day. Self testing is about reducing and controlling blood sugar. Which I do.

It seems your maintaining your blood sugar well and winning the fight at the moment as well and doing it eating a varied diet. So like me you're doing what works. You're not pushing your luck in terms of what you eat and drink if you're proactive and know what the impact of that food and drink is on your blood sugar. If that starts to head up, then it's time to reassess (for me, not necessarily you!). I'm simply not prepared to live in fear of what may happen. You could have 20 years of your diet and still end up having to inject insulin into your eyeball to survive, so could I! But by testing ourselves and staying proactive we'll have the opportunity to take avoiding action. I'm happy to take that action when my meter tells me to rather than pre-empt it.
 
mikej1973 said:
Even when my HBA1c was 60 potatoes, porridge fruit (not tried a banana yet to be fair), wholemeal bread, sugary treats (very occasional) didn't get my bs over 7.5.
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Hi Mike, just to say the above doesn't quite add up, to run a HbA1c of 60 your sugars have to be averaging 9.5mmol/l, thats some numbers above some below over the previous 2/3months, You must have had some dramatic weight loss in 6 weeks to have the BGT test to normal.

It would appear to me that the suggestions that Porridge Potatoes & Wholemeal bread didn't spike you to that degree (I know we are all different but even so people are still affected to different degrees) would have to have been tested sometime later as at the time of the high HbA1c your numbers were already in the 9.5s on average.

Neil
Ps My Doctors is the 'surgery specialist' on Diabetes and knows very little to me it was unreversable and tells me directly not to test.
 


and there I agree with you completely! three weeks after the test (one week after the results) I had a blood glucose meter and a sore finger. I managed to get the thing over that 9.5 average ONCE in between starting to test and seeing the doctor a second time about a month later If I remember correctly. And your argument is exactly the one I put forward. Which lead to the further tests. The OGTT being at my request. My second HBA1C much more reflected my average blood sugar on my meter.

Unfortunately, without putting 3 stone back on there's not much we can do. But my readings do behave "not normal" from time to time and I modify my diet in reaction to that.



My weight loss was about 18lbs so 3lb a week instead of the 2 I was aiming for. But not exceptional weight loss.. just good and steady.
 
Just to add in about GPs being the diabetic specialist in a Practice.. They aren't... Our practice just nominates a GP to over see diabetes. He has no further knowledge or interest in diabates at all.
Check out your GPs special interest and qualifications on the GMC website if you want proof of this in Practices.
So that they can hit DES targets they need someone to take over all responsibility of getting diabetes in their Practices to hit targets.. Just like hypertension or dementia...

The nurses are the ones that do all the extra training...
 
That's a fair comment. I'm happy mine knows her onions though. I also greatly admire any professional that admits to being unsure and goes looking for help
 

In life, we each are continually running risk/benefit analysis on the decisions we make, and there will always be a spectrum of acceptability relating to both risk and reward. Life, in general, is about compromise, and I have, thus far, found a balance that suits me. Your preferred position on the spectrum is clearly different. That's your right, as we each will live with the consequences of our own actions.

Where I believe many on this forum differ from you is that our personal experience, when eating carb loaded foods, differs from yours. My experiences have altered as my D experience and my weight/bloods moderated, as I imagine have yours. Many newly diagnosed T2s who use this forum find that the standard NHS Guidelines for dietary management of T2 find that utilising the recommended eating patterns simply doesn't reduce their blood scores. Indeed, some have actually found their blood scores increasing following a period of following the standard NHS Guidelines. That leads many to believe they should avoid carbs.

You state that using LCHF means fat consumption goes up. For me, initially, it didn't. I wanted to lose weight, so whilst I ensured I didn't consume any low fat products (unless there was no alternative, and bearing in mind I was overseas in my early days, this was someteimes the case), I didn't go all out to eat fat. That simply didn't float my boat. Once I achieved a slight physical figure and low BMI I realised I couldn't continue eating exactly as I had been doing on the early part of my journey, because I was continuing to lose weight, so I had to find a way of balancing my body scales not to lose further weight, but to maintain my bloods in the region I wanted. Of course, for many people maintaining their bloods in the low 30s might seem like going too far, but again, that is my choice, in the light of knowledge. In order to balance my body scales I have increased my consumption of both fat and carbs in an incremental way, until I reached a balance point. It is well documented that others have similar balancing experience to my own.

If you find your GP specialises in Diabetes and actually has a significant insight into the condition, and the variances between the many variants of T2, never mind the whole T1 puzzle, then you are very fortunate. My surgery has a GP who is responsible for Diabetes, as we do for other chronic and common conditions like asthma, mental health, obstetrics and pain, but my experience is simply that this means that GP is the go-to person in the practise, rather than that he/she actually possesses a significant level of expertise. Probably, in my surgery the exceptions to that sweeping generalisation is both obstetrics and minor surgery, where we are fortunate enough to have GPs with higher qualifications in both specialisms and who continue to work in hospital part time in each specialism.

Again, I pass on my best wishes, but might urge you to temper some of your hard and fast statements, even about what works for you. This condition is one where our bodies ability to cope can change over time, and really it is a watching brief, where ongoing vigilance is required, however we each like to express that (in my view) fact.
 

Which hard and fast statements? and why do you consider it OK to draw on your own experience, but not me from mine? Especially as my experience to a greater extent than yours bows to the NHS guidelines. For me the NHS approach works and unless you give me a good reason (I am always open to persuasion!) I'll keep doing that when appropriate!
 

My intention isn't to have an argument, but my feedback isn't alone, if you read back. Best we agree to differ on some of your statements I think.
 
AndBreathe said:
My intention isn't to have an argument, but my feedback isn't alone, if you read back. Best we agree to differ on some of your statements I think.
Click to expand...

No no. I'm not trying to fall out with you or anyone. But disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm wrong and should not tell my story because it basically disagrees with forum wisdom.
 
@mikej1973
I'm interested in the 5:2, how you spread your calories with 500g carbs and what you consider to be "active".....
Is that hauling in Tuna by the way?
 
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