Your thoughts on fructose

[Oldvatr]

If it eases your mind, then I can point to the NAFLD recovery diet allowing fruits and vegetables ad libetum. So yes, raw fruit is probaby not inducing NAFLD. But dried fruit, tinned fruit in syrup and candied fruit are suspect, and should be treated with paucity.

I have tried to share the science behind the mechanism being considered for causing NAFLD and Insulin resistance in T2D. There are reasons why some of us avoid a high fructose intake juat as many of us avoid a high carb intake. It is of note that the majority of participants in the Newcastle diet studies (which physically measured fat content of the liver and pancreas) had some degree of NAFLD present at baseline, and that they used a VLC diet to remove the fat, again demonstrated physically by MRI. Removal of this fat was statistically significantly associated with an improvement in the Insulin Responses and HbA1c.

 

[Deleted member 532959]

If it eases your mind, then I can point to the NAFLD recovery diet allowing fruits and vegetables ad libetum. So yes, raw fruit is probaby not inducing NAFLD. But dried fruit, tinned fruit in syrup and candied fruit are suspect, and should be treated with paucity.

My mind is completely at ease. But thanks.

I

have tried to share the science behind the mechanism being considered for causing NAFLD and Insulin resistance in T2D.

Yes, you did try. Instead you just ended up confirming what I was saying all along. moreover, the manner in which the models failed to explain the effect of eating fruit i.e It was something distinct within whole fruit, leads it open to failing with other types of food

There are reasons why some of us avoid a high fructose intake juat as many of us avoid a high carb intake

Hmmm...the less said about that, the better.

It is of note that the majority of participants in the Newcastle diet studies (which physically measured fat content of the liver and pancreas) had some degree of NAFLD present at baseline, and that they used a VLC diet to remove the fat, again demonstrated physically by MRI. Removal of this fat was statistically significantly associated with an improvement in the Insulin Responses and HbA1c.

From what i can gather NAFLD, in many cases (at least in the cases of those whose fatty liver tagged along with the extra weight) responds very well to weight-loss, however it is achieved. And at this point, i believe the same about most if not all symptoms of metabolic disease. Given the huge differences between low-carb, high-carb and ultra-low calorie, in the treatment of metabolic dysfunction e.g diabetes, the most common (If not the only) point of convergence is weight-loss.

 

[Oldvatr]

The effect of eating fructose from any source is that it gets stored either as glycogen in the liver, or as lipid fat in the adipocytes. That is fact, It can later enter the bloodstream as part of normal hepatic action. The problem comes when there is an overdose of glucose and fructose together in cases where energy stores are getting full, and the lipids get forced into cells not normally used for storage, such as the pancreas. That was clearly stated in the reports i linked, but which you dismiss so readily. Where do you think fructose goes?

Weight loss has always been a key componenrt in the lifestyle changes recommended by NICE for T2D. It remains so even today and is reinforced by NICE now advocating both the Newcastle Diet and Low Carb diets as being suitble for obese patients, and even to the point of GP's being able tp prescribe them. If Weight Watchers or other commercial diets had shown succcess then these would also be considered. The only other diet other than Eatwell supported by NICE is the Mediterranean Diet, since there has been some evidence published that it can help reduce T2D symptoms as well as Heart problems.

I have yet to see someone post in the Success and Testimonials thread that they have achieved remission through using a WW or Slimfast or similar commercial diet. Even XLS does not seem to generate these success stories. So it is not just a matter of losing a couple of stones in weight.

 

[Deleted member 532959]

I have yet to see someone post in the Success and Testimonials thread that they have achieved remission through using a WW

https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/lif...through-ww-led-diabetes-being-reversed-992076

 

[Oldvatr]

https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/lif...through-ww-led-diabetes-being-reversed-992076

Thank you. I see this was published in 2019. I wonder if she is still maintaining the success. She certainly looks well on it.

 

[Deleted member 532959]

I wonder if she is still maintaining the success.

While I have certain misgivings about the way maintenance is handled in WW, i think that their point-system at least allows the possibility for dieters to experiment with foods in a way that could help transition into life-long maintenance. Of course, this depends on the education offered (I've on idea; I've never done it), but more importantly whether the dieters in question have drilled-down to the root cause of why they became obese (I see this as distinct from overweight), in the first place.

 

[Madisons]

I've been eating this "Keto" granola made of almonds, coconut flakes, pecans, sunflower seeds and hemp, mixed with coconut oil, coconut butter, erythritol, tapioca syrup, stevia. It also has Inulin (blue agave). I just read that this is pure fructose so I have been killing my fatty liver with this all along, even though fructose does not immediately raise BG. How is this Keto granola even good for me? I'm so confused. I try to do Keto, low carb-high fat, but then ingredients like this are not good for my fatty liver. I'm also afraid that my already high cholesterol will get worse on this LCHF diet which my GP is so against. So, I'm prediabetic 6.1, got high cholesterol, and fatty liver, with hypothyroidsm. Any suggestions on what to eat? Even broccoli stems have high fructose and I thought broccoli was supposed to be healthy. Do I just end up eating nuts and twigs? I do love walnuts (alot of it!) and sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds, how much fat is that being stored in my liver? How about eggs and avocado? And I love greek yogurt, but I noticed there is 6grams of carbs and 6 grams of sugar in a 175grams serving. What about resistant starch? I love fava beans and they're supposed to be resistant starch. I've cut out rice and sweet potatoes already, and quinoa, all were my favorite foods, let alone, all the fruit I use to consume. Was told to drink coffee for fatty liver, but that keeps me awake and anxious. It's a no-win situation here for me. I've lost so much weight not intended, so skinny with a fatty liver and prediabetes. I look and feel so unhealthy, and tired all the time. I used to enjoy mealtimes, especially now during the holidays but now I'm sad, depressed and scared to put whatever in me for fear of damaging one organ or another. Help anyone?

 

[Oldvatr]

I've been eating this "Keto" granola made of almonds, coconut flakes, pecans, sunflower seeds and hemp, mixed with coconut oil, coconut butter, erythritol, tapioca syrup, stevia. It also has Inulin (blue agave). I just read that this is pure fructose so I have been killing my fatty liver with this all along, even though fructose does not immediately raise BG. How is this Keto granola even good for me? I'm so confused. I try to do Keto, low carb-high fat, but then ingredients like this are not good for my fatty liver. I'm also afraid that my already high cholesterol will get worse on this LCHF diet which my GP is so against. So, I'm prediabetic 6.1, got high cholesterol, and fatty liver, with hypothyroidsm. Any suggestions on what to eat? Even broccoli stems have high fructose and I thought broccoli was supposed to be healthy. Do I just end up eating nuts and twigs? I do love walnuts (alot of it!) and sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds, how much fat is that being stored in my liver? How about eggs and avocado? And I love greek yogurt, but I noticed there is 6grams of carbs and 6 grams of sugar in a 175grams serving. What about resistant starch? I love fava beans and they're supposed to be resistant starch. I've cut out rice and sweet potatoes already, and quinoa, all were my favorite foods, let alone, all the fruit I use to consume. Was told to drink coffee for fatty liver, but that keeps me awake and anxious. It's a no-win situation here for me. I've lost so much weight not intended, so skinny with a fatty liver and prediabetes. I look and feel so unhealthy, and tired all the time. I used to enjoy mealtimes, especially now during the holidays but now I'm sad, depressed and scared to put whatever in me for fear of damaging one organ or another. Help anyone?

If you are prediabetic then you do not need to go keto for diabetic reasons. A more general low carb diet (<120g . day carbs ) may do just as well but be less stressful. Do you have much weight to lose? That may initially raise LDL levels while the lipids are being burnt away, so a small increase in exercise (like walking or stair climbing) might be a benefit . The LDL will settle down in a while, and many here note that cholesterol improves on a low carb diet. HDL rises (good) and LDL and trigs fall (also good) so longer term the prognosis is win win.

If LDL is a problem for your GP, then there is a pill called Ezetimibe which reduces LDL but is not a statin. I use it and it seems inocuous and I get no side effects from it. I am seriously allergic to statins. So it keeps my GP happy, and it is up to me to take it or leave it in the packet.

I use a moderate LC diet myself and I got my BMI to 21 and do not need or want to go any lower. I used to be 18 stone with a waist band 8" larger than now.

Edit: sorry, just read your post here again, and you say you are skinny, so keto may be unecessary. I too am TOFI, and I made a decision to avoid keto for myself. Makes life simpler, and you do not need to be too strict on LCHF. Do not worry too much about the Fructose. It is one possible source of NAFLD, but we are generally talking long term abuse which an LC diet will probably take care of. If it does not work out, then the Newcastle diet sems to shift liver fat, and they got the MRI scans to prove it. But that diet is a crash diet, and not necessarily a long term solution. Crash diets are noted as to making NAFLD worse.

As a matter of interest, how will you find out if you have shifted NAFLD since there are no symptoms?

 

[Madisons]

If you are prediabetic then you do not need to go keto for diabetic reasons. A more general low carb diet (<120g . day carbs ) may do just as well but be less stressful. Do you have much weight to lose? That may initially raise LDL levels while the lipids are being burnt away, so a small increase in exercise (like walking or stair climbing) might be a benefit . The LDL will settle down in a while, and many here note that cholesterol improves on a low carb diet. HDL rises (good) and LDL and trigs fall (also good) so longer term the prognosis is win win.

If LDL is a problem for your GP, then there is a pill called Ezetimibe which reduces LDL but is not a statin. I use it and it seems inocuous and I get no side effects from it. I am seriously allergic to statins. So it keeps my GP happy, and it is up to me to take it or leave it in the packet.

I use a moderate LC diet myself and I got my BMI to 21 and do not need or want to go any lower. I used to be 18 stone with a waist band 8" larger than now.

Edit: sorry, just read your post here again, and you say you are skinny, so keto may be unecessary. I too am TOFI, and I made a decision to avoid keto for myself. Makes life simpler, and you do not need to be too strict on LCHF. Do not worry too much about the Fructose. It is one possible source of NAFLD, but we are generally talking long term abuse which an LC diet will probably take care of. If it does not work out, then the Newcastle diet sems to shift liver fat, and they got the MRI scans to prove it. But that diet is a crash diet, and not necessarily a long term solution. Crash diets are noted as to making NAFLD worse.

As a matter of interest, how will you find out if you have shifted NAFLD since there are no symptoms?

Hi, thanks so much for your feedback. I had no idea about the NAFLD until we did a liver profile blood test, which showed that my levels were up and resulting in fatty liver, as the GP says. He didn't seem too concerned, wanted me to focus on the A1C of 6.1 prediabetes instead. Wanted to put me on statins since mom is diabetic LADA, and had a heart attack at age 50. I really don't want to take statins as I heard it raises BG even more. I'm trying low carb, but it turns out that even vegetables have carbs and fructose. I'm hungry all the time. If I do low carb, I have to eat more fat, but eating fat scares me and the cholesterol, it's genetic so I'll eventually need that statin, just holding off as much as i can, just like the prediabetes LADA. He said my LDL was up with a 6% chance of getting a heart attack at my age. Wow, great! Still scary as diabetes is lurking around the corner and fatty liver out of control for a very skinny underweight girl. I love food too too much to have to cut out everything that I used to enjoy. That Keto granola is going to have to stop as the blue agave in it is dangerous. What is your typical meal plan please?

 

[Mr_Pot]

I've been eating this "Keto" granola made of almonds, coconut flakes, pecans, sunflower seeds and hemp, mixed with coconut oil, coconut butter, erythritol, tapioca syrup, stevia. It also has Inulin (blue agave). I just read that this is pure fructose so I have been killing my fatty liver with this all along, even though fructose does not immediately raise BG. How is this Keto granola even good for me? I'm so confused. I try to do Keto, low carb-high fat, but then ingredients like this are not good for my fatty liver. I'm also afraid that my already high cholesterol will get worse on this LCHF diet which my GP is so against. So, I'm prediabetic 6.1, got high cholesterol, and fatty liver, with hypothyroidsm. Any suggestions on what to eat? Even broccoli stems have high fructose and I thought broccoli was supposed to be healthy. Do I just end up eating nuts and twigs? I do love walnuts (alot of it!) and sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds, how much fat is that being stored in my liver? How about eggs and avocado? And I love greek yogurt, but I noticed there is 6grams of carbs and 6 grams of sugar in a 175grams serving. What about resistant starch? I love fava beans and they're supposed to be resistant starch. I've cut out rice and sweet potatoes already, and quinoa, all were my favorite foods, let alone, all the fruit I use to consume. Was told to drink coffee for fatty liver, but that keeps me awake and anxious. It's a no-win situation here for me. I've lost so much weight not intended, so skinny with a fatty liver and prediabetes. I look and feel so unhealthy, and tired all the time. I used to enjoy mealtimes, especially now during the holidays but now I'm sad, depressed and scared to put whatever in me for fear of damaging one organ or another. Help anyone?

Where are you getting your information about the fructose content of foods from? Fructose is a carbohydrate and will be included in the total carbs for a food. Low carb foods cannot be high in fructose.

 

[Oldvatr]

Where are you getting your information about the fructose content of foods from? Fructose is a carbohydrate and will be included in the total carbs for a food. Low carb foods cannot be high in fructose.

Food product Ingredients listing tends to be given in order, High contribution >>> low contribution, so if it is in the front of the list then it is significant, but if towards the end of the listing then it will be trace amounts. Either way, it is unlikely to be a major problem in granola. As stated above, the low carb label should imply it is a small amount anyway, and NAFLD has other causes too, so I would not think of this item as being evil. But Granola may not be a good ingredient in a keto diet anyway, it still has significnt carbs (percentage wise)

I would query the GP using a blood test to diaagnose NAFLD, since I believe it is actually undetectable from blood tests, and requires a scan or biopsy for diagnosis. I presume it is the ALT figure he is worrying over.
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/liver-disease/nafld-nash/diagnosis
A genetic disposition to hyperdislipodemia (family cholesterol history) is a risk factor as is diabetes, but at the level being stated (prediabetes) then this can be discounted, and also obesity does not seem to be present either.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Statistically Madison may have a 6% chance of having a heart attack. Being the eternal optimist I read this as a 94% chance of not having a heart attack. I know which probability I prefer!

 

[MrsA2]

There's been a paper published this week on LDL and slim people. Forget what it's called but Google lean mass hyper responder and you should find it eventually.
It's also talked about in the Low Carb MD podcast

 

[Oldvatr]

There's been a paper published this week on LDL and slim people. Forget what it's called but Google lean mass hyper responder and you should find it eventually.
It's also talked about in the Low Carb MD podcast

Has already been seen in the Forum recently.

 

[MrsA2]

Has already been seen in the Forum recently.

Yes, I couldn't find it to link to and I thought @Madisons might be interested as her issues seem to fit maybe

 

[Oldvatr]

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/lean-mass-hyper-responder-paper-discussion-video.185328/