Disagreement is not rejection.

[pleinster]

But on here the 75% do block out the 25%, you see it every single day on the forum regarding diet. As such, many members have left or are pondering leaving - because they feel like idiots. I fully support debate and quite enjoy it, but unfortunately this forum has lost its way recently wrt what is healthy debate and is now bordering on belittling/bullying of those with alternative views on specific matters. And that's not because the information opposing the masses has been reviewed and gauged to be fictional fantasy, but simply because it's a different view to what's currently deemed "the only way"...

Peer review is good, effective and useful "if" the parties involved are at least willing to listen to the opinions of others instead of instantly dismissing them just because they're different.

There we go I've said my bit

yes..but that's just your opinion

 

[GrantGam]

yes..but that's just your opinion

I hope you had your reply peer reviewed, screened and vetted before posting?

If you've not followed the new protocol - then I'm sorry, but it's just an opinion like mine

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Speaking as an old timer on this forum, had everyone been here 3 or 4 years ago they really would have had reason to complain. Believe it or not, people were banned for daring to even mention LCHF. Bullying was rife. That was the atmosphere on here when I first started lurking. It wasn't a pleasant place to be a lot of the time, especially for newbies. These days I don't believe this is the case on the whole, and certainly no-one is banned for offering different opinions.

I think it has gone full circle now. It's all about the LCHF now with low carbing being promoted in every moderators' signature strip. Some things change, but sadly not the bullying as I witnessed today. Like you, I have been here a while. I am just glad I am not a new member arriving today. Must be tough nowadays.

 

[pleinster]

I hope you had your reply peer reviewed, screened and vetted before posting?

If you've not followed the new protocol - then I'm sorry, but it's just an opinion like mine

I did, I discussed it at length with 55 other people after various processes agreed in advance after days of talks and then had everyone tick my box (not a euphemism) before posting...they all had opinions and they listened to my opinion and we all agreed in the end that it was absolutely valid...so now its a validated opinion..and we are all entitled to our validated opinions even if they are total nonsense. Plato once said that if a man thinks his red shirt is blue when it is in fact red then he is wrong ...is entitled to his incorrect view but is deluded...okay so it wasn't Plato! But I do like this quote “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” (Harlan Ellison, American writer) and I believe he wrote Terminator...so I am not arguing with him.

 

[pleinster]

I believe we move forward through sharing information, debate, discussion and questioning. One of the things I like about this site is how often people say what works for them and add the caveat that 'we're all different'; there seems to me to be more acceptance of that than elsewhere, and long may it last.

I strongly agree with that.

 

[Jaylee]

I did, I discussed it at length with 55 other people after various processes agreed in advance after days of talks and then had everyone tick my box (not a euphemism) before posting...they all had opinions and they listened to my opinion and we all agreed in the end that it was absolutely valid...so now its a validated opinion..and we are all entitled to our validated opinions even if they are total nonsense. Plato once said that if a man thinks his red shirt is blue when it is in fact red then he is wrong ...is entitled to his incorrect view but is deluded...okay so it wasn't Plato! But I do like this quote “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” (Harlan Ellison, American writer) and I believe he wrote Terminator...so I am not arguing with him.

I once met a representative from "Skynet" at a sci fi convention.. (Yes there is a Skynet.) He gets the Terminator greif from attendees all the time. I suggested he stayed away from "gigs" hanging out with a stand next door to Ewoks & the hologram from Red Dwarf...
Not helping this thread I know but I'm taking a break from the "green banner."

 

[busydiabeticmum]

I think it has gone full circle now. It's all about the LCHF now with low carbing being promoted in every moderators' signature strip. Some things change, but sadly not the bullying as I witnessed today. Like you, I have been here a while. I am just glad I am not a new member arriving today. Must be tough nowadays.

The bullying does go both ways, I have been bullied because I am low carbing and pregnant!!!
Again there is no size fits all, the one that wins will be the one that works so if the 75% have discovered that something has worked for them and 25% discovered something els has... I just don't see the problem and if the 75% block the 25% essentially they become the same as the nhs ... it should be about informing and helping. TBH lchf worked for me, however my diet is not the same as everyone else's because there are things they can tolerate that I can't, however I do get ideas from them in what to TRY... I try and I test, if it doesn't work I don't do it again. If it does I will come back and say so.

Unfortunately there are people who will jump on you just for saying something works even though we are ALL here trying to get the same thing! Help which is short coming from the nhs (depending on Dr)

I read the comments of the 25% but as someone who has tried it I discovered that diet didn't work for me, even the lchf needed to be personalised. It doesn't mean the 25% diet doesn't work at all! It just means it works for the 25%!

 

[SockFiddler]

A few people here have mentioned bullying on the forum as if it happens frequently (and it well might - I have no idea). I'm curious to see some examples of this behaviour - all I've seen is respectful disagreement and acceptance of differences. Bullying is a really strong word (and a divisive one) and it's easy to point a vague and general finger without citing examples.

Also: @Jaylee you skiver, get that nose back to the creaky grindstone. There's all that wheat to grind that no-one is going to eat!

 

[Bluetit1802]

If anyone is seen to be bullying, then the report button should be used.

 

[lindisfel]

And as we say up north, "there's nowt wus than an ex smoker" !

It all a question of motivation. My father in law was told by his doctor if he didn't give up smoking he may as well fall under a bus! He had copd and he lived another twenty years but struggled with breathing throughout.
We never know how hard the next man finds the road they travel so we can upset some with the most innocuous remark.
I can find humour in what I went through when I had cancer, but I was upset when someone I went swimming with who didn't have prostate cancer joked about the effects of hormone therapy.
I find the members on this site to be helpful and compassionate. Some of us may have 'bees in our bonnets' so we need the skin of a pachyderm to stop being stung! However, we have all trodden different paths. Let's try not to get upset by a perhaps unguarded comment. regards Derek

 

[SockFiddler]

Thank you for that, @Avocado Sevenfold - it's an awful reply and I'm pleased it was deleted, but less pleased that my sunny optimism about the friendly health of our community has been dimmed somewhat.

 

[Pipp]

I would add as a post script to @Jaylee 's post here (post #46) that examples of perceived bullying should be reported to moderators via the 'report' button. Please folks don't repeat them and perpetuate the behaviour.
Repeating / copying previously deleted reported posts defeats the object of them having been deleted.

 

[SockFiddler]

Sorry, @Pipp - I do appreciate your point, I'd just never seen any examples is all. And @lindisfel was discreet enough to name neither the OP nor the respondent. I hope that allowed the quote to stand as an example without causing further offense.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I would add as a post script to @Pipp
Repeating / copying previously deleted reported posts defeats the object of them having been deleted.

Sorry @Pipp Sock Fiddler saw my example and now it has gone so hopefully no harm done :)

 

[Fleegle]

Speaking as an old timer on this forum, had everyone been here 3 or 4 years ago they really would have had reason to complain. Believe it or not, people were banned for daring to even mention LCHF. Bullying was rife. That was the atmosphere on here when I first started lurking. It wasn't a pleasant place to be a lot of the time, especially for newbies. These days I don't believe this is the case on the whole, and certainly no-one is banned for offering different opinions.

I haven't been here four years and generally I think it is an extremely friendly place with lots of good advice particularly on LCHF. And LCHF is making a real difference to me and I genuinely do not know what I would have done without it and the responses to questions I have. And it can be wide and varied and if that has changed for the better overtime then that is great,

But I tell you my experience - if in any way you question even inadvertently LCHF - you get bombed big time.
I myself like to understand all approaches being pretty desperate if I am honest to control this beast. I am really careful in how I phrase my posts using phrases like "I know you don't need any carbs" yet some of the posts you get are like a virtual punch. It is a very small percent but still makes me consider whether to post again.

There is an alternative though - I tend to use this forum now to get all the LCHF stuff I need and other forums to see other views. Saturated meat fats and IR a good example of that which is perhaps less expressed here than elsewhere.

 

[Pipp]

Sorry, @Pipp - I do appreciate your point, I'd just never seen any examples is all. And @lindisfel was discreet enough to name neither the OP nor the respondent. I hope that allowed the quote to stand as an example without causing further offense.

@SockFiddler
The fact that you had not seen bullying here I take as an example that moderators are doing the job well.

Unfortunately some comments are made and seen by others before they can be removed.

The deleted post in this thread by @Avocado Sevenfold contained a post that had already been deleted from another thread. Therefore the quote is not allowed to stand.

I am not aware that @lindisfel made any comment regarding a deleted post, so perhaps you used that member's name in error? Lindisfel made a good point that perception of bullying can be subjective.

Reported allegations of bullying are investigated and acted on accordingly. They do need to be reported rather than brought up in a thread.

 

[Pipp]

I haven't been here four years and generally I think it is an extremely friendly place with lots of good advice particularly on LCHF. And LCHF is making a real difference to me and I genuinely do not know what I would have done without it and the responses to questions I have. And it can be wide and varied and if that has changed for the better overtime then that is great,

But I tell you my experience - if in any way you question even inadvertently LCHF - you get bombed big time.
I myself like to understand all approaches being pretty desperate if I am honest to control this beast. I am really careful in how I phrase my posts using phrases like "I know you don't need any carbs" yet some of the posts you get are like a virtual punch. It is a very small percent but still makes me consider whether to post again.

There is an alternative though - I tend to use this forum now to get all the LCHF stuff I need and other forums to see other views. Saturated meat fats and IR a good example of that which is perhaps less expressed here than elsewhere.

Hi @Fleegle
Would you like to start a thread to discuss Saturated meat fats and IR?
It would be good to have a discussion thread for this.

 

[busydiabeticmum]

@SockFiddler
The fact that you had not seen bullying here I take as an example that moderators are doing the job well.

Unfortunately some comments are made and seen by others before they can be removed.

The deleted post in this thread by @Avocado Sevenfold contained a post that had already been deleted from another thread. Therefore the quote is not allowed to stand.

I am not aware that @lindisfel made any comment regarding a deleted post, so perhaps you used that member's name in error? Lindisfel made a good point that perception of bullying can be subjective.

Reported allegations of bullying are investigated and acted on accordingly. They do need to be reported rather than brought up in a thread.

I didn't even need to report it! The moderator immediately got involved and deleted the posts and the person apologised... I was being threatened because a book I bought to educate my kids at home had something in that I disagree with and so I crossed it out and skipped it! (Basically it put fats with sugar as being bad and sugars were not put with the carbs which were being pushed as most healthy) anyway I was accused of being a bad mum and that I should be reported and have to pay for damages to a book that I owned!!! Another time I was accused of harming my unborn child because I was low carbing, that I would seriously hurt their future development etc...

Everyone has their opinion, but should not dictate or force this opinion on others. We all have experiences but we should take into consideration that the person you are speaking to has an opposite experience to back them up... again we are ALL unique and react differently to different foods and meds etc. We should not push down someone because of their reaction to something and so CHOOSING a different path because of that. There are people on here who are actually lovely people and react badly only because they want the best for us and actually are scared that their bad experience will happen to someone else... no one wants to be left severely ill or with a sick child etc... however they forget that we are all unique!

I have found the mediators to be really balanced and I have never seen them take sides between the 75% or 25%. We can sometimes be a bit over zealous when passion over comes us... these good people sadly may offend without realising, this is the risk when talking to a screen rather than face to face.

 

[SockFiddler]

@SockFiddler
The fact that you had not seen bullying here I take as an example that moderators are doing the job well.

Unfortunately some comments are made and seen by others before they can be removed.

The deleted post in this thread by @Avocado Sevenfold contained a post that had already been deleted from another thread. Therefore the quote is not allowed to stand.

I am not aware that @lindisfel made any comment regarding a deleted post, so perhaps you used that member's name in error? Lindisfel made a good point that perception of bullying can be subjective.

Reported allegations of bullying are investigated and acted on accordingly. They do need to be reported rather than brought up in a thread.

You're absolutely right - I tagged the wrong person in my eagerness to avoid being told off!

Apologies to both @lindisfel and @Avocado Sevenfold for the confusion!

 

[noblehead]

Speaking as an old timer on this forum, had everyone been here 3 or 4 years ago they really would have had reason to complain. Believe it or not, people were banned for daring to even mention LCHF. Bullying was rife. That was the atmosphere on here when I first started lurking. It wasn't a pleasant place to be a lot of the time, especially for newbies. These days I don't believe this is the case on the whole, and certainly no-one is banned for offering different opinions.

No that's not true @Bluetit1802

If we are thinking about the same group of people they were banned (some left of their own accord) because of their behaviour on the forum rather than the diet they followed.

They intimidated and ganged up on members who didn't follow their own example and wanted to turn the forum into a low-carb forum only, they tried to dictate the terms of the forum to the Admin on how it should be run and when this failed they resorted to other tactics, one was asking members not to post on the forum for 24 hours to send a message to the Admin in the hope that they'd back down and listen to their demands, I remember it all too well and the forum was a very unpleasant place to visit.

Thankfully those days are long behind us now and hope we never see it happen again.