The Miserable Itch

[TOnline]

Hello

I'm new to the forums and recently diagnosed Type 2 Diabetic.
Apologies in advance as this may be a long post but I'll try to give as much detail as possible in case it can help anyone come up with any ideas or see if anyone can relate to skin itching/crawling sensations.

So let me add that I am overweight 5'8, around 222lb, always ate what I wanted and used to drink heavy amounts of sugary fizzy drinks which were my favourite thing in the world, chances are I've been diabetic a lot longer than I've known?

So in October I approached my GP after having ongoing intense Pruritis/Skin crawling sensations that I couldn't get rid of after changing my laundry detergent, soap etc. We decided to run some blood tests. The first blood results showed up that my blood sugar was high and that my liver results were a little high too, funnily enough my liver result was 55 whilst in 2009 my liver result was 79, but this time the doctor decided to send me for an ultrasound as well just to check the liver out.

So 4 blood tests and an Ultrasound later in January I was confirmed as Type 2 diabetic and I had some fatty deposits on the Liver. My liver results had actually normalized on my last blood test and dropped back to 41 or so in the healthy range. My overall cholesterol had dropped except my bad cholesterol still being high and my blood glucose had gone down from 69 to 56 during those 3 months. Problem is, the itching has persisted.

The doctors at the minute haven't really came up with anything other than, it's probably the diabetes. My nurse said she is surprised as she didn't think the blood glucose was high enough to cause it but said let's try get the numbers down and see if it helps. She basically gave me the option, carry on as I am trying to drop my numbers myself, go on some NHS liquid diet or medication. Now I don't work out, and I had not massively changed what I eat besides I did switch to sugar free soda in November and I do try to eat less amounts, especially sugary treats like I'd always have biscuits with a brew and stopped all that. I decided to opt in for taking one METFORMIN tablet in the morning right now, my fasting blood levels are like just over 8mmol in the morning which I know is too high still. Oddly enough I've had readings in the 7s back in January when I wasn't on medication or trying to cut back as much as I wasn't confirmed diabetic at the time.

The itching just remains an absolute misery for me. It's erratic as hell, it doesn't seem to correspond with my eating from what I see. I can be itching all week and then one day it will just calm down as if it's stopped and then it will return the following day. Last night I covered myself in Original Source Mint and Tea Tree shower gel and waited for a few minutes before showing it off, I felt relatively good for a few hours but then come night time when I got into bed the Itching and skin crawling feeling went into overdrive again and gave me a poor nights sleep, it's continued on today too.

 

[KennyA]

hi TOnline and welcome. I had something similar - repeated itching, "skin rash" infections, anywhere there was sweat I itched. I was showering all the time, just to get some relief, but it would reappear overnight. This started (along with a fair number of other nasty symptoms) when my BG was low to mid-40s.

This cleared when I reduced my BG. It went almost instantly (I mean within a couple of weeks), and hasn't returned in over four years.

My conclusion is (based only on my own observations) that my sweat had a higher amount of glucose in it than it should have, and this supply of food was good news for my resident skin bacteria. More bacteria, more acidic bacterial waste, massive skin irritation.

Best of luck.

 

[TOnline]

Hi Kenny

Thanks for the reply. This is interesting to know and a positive to hear you actually managed to get rid of your itch. Can I ask what the mid 40's measurement is you are referring to? What would that number be in the daily MMOL measurements?

I've been on one tablet in the morning 500mg Metformin for like 5-6 days. Not seeing any drastic decreases, last 3 days it's been 9.7 - 8.4 - 8.4 upon waking. As I say I had a 7.7 reading in January when I wasn't even on medication or making a particular effort to watch what I consumed.

And for me there isn't really any other symptoms or issues bugging me besides this darn itching.

 

[dancer]

@TOnline I was diagnosed Type 1 just over 45 years ago. For months I had itched morning, noon and night but especially at night. I found wearing only natural fibres helped greatly but didn't get rid of the itch. Weeks after starting insulin treatment, I found the itching had stopped. Months later, I told a doctor at the clinic about this, and asked if the itch would have been caused by the diabetes. He said he had never heard of itching being a symptom of diabetes, so it was just a coincidence. I wasn't convinced and funnily enough, decades later, I read that studies had shown that pruritis is a symptom of diabetes.
Hopefully, after your blood sugar levels have been at normal levels for a while, the itching will stop.

 

[TOnline]

Thanks for the reply Dancer. I hope so too.

It baffles me the way this only popped up in October given I probably would have had high blood sugars a lot longer without knowing. Plus the way it can be so intense for days and then by itself just calm down for a day or two without explanation. Granted I'm not a very active person at all I'm trying to watch what I eat now along with the one metformin tablet I am on. Hopefully I can keep getting these numbers dropping, 7.2mmol this morning.

 

[ajbod]

The measurement @KennyA refers to is the Hba1c, the blood test the doctors do. The figure you quote dropping from 69 to 56 it's that one. As you progress, hopefully, greatly reducing the carbs you eat, you should see this number continue to drop further. Once it is below 42 you are in non diabetic numbers. Many of us on here have had lots of previous problems clear up when attaining lower blood Glucose levels.
You can lose weight rapidly without exercise, as many here have, by avoiding eating carbohydrates. Potatoes, Pasta, Rice, Bread, Pastry, Cakes, Biscuits and most fruits, these things just don't work for us.
Replace them with nice fatty meats, Butter, Cream, Cheese and ABOVE ground vegetables, cook using Butter, Lard, Dripping and proper Olive oil. IGNORE calories, eating this way you will find you eat less, as you can use all you are eating, instead of your body being resistant to much of what you were eating, this means you stop feeling hungry.
To help get you started.

The Nutritional Thingy

There’s a few things you should know. 1. Practically all carbs turn to glucose once ingested , so not just straight sugars, but starches...

josekalsbeek.blogspot.com

This was written by one of us here, and is probably the first thing all newly diagnosed diabetics should be pointed to.

 

[jjraak]

Hi @TOnline

I get a particularly itchy bum cheek, I linked it to higher BG levels personally.

More so I believe when they are not settled.
Aka trying to lower them

For me it was irritating but liveable, your itching seems less bearable.

On the lowering note and morning fbg.

I found mine started high at the start of each month, then my body seems to not believe it was deliberate, so took it's sweet time to lower my FBG

Month one was at 9+
Mid month a mix of 9 & 8's.
And end of month all 8's

Then next month that pattern repeated but starting at 8, etc etc downwards.

Best wishes finding a solution to the itching.

As said, many of us found lchf improved other conditions too

Don't lose hope .

 

[Nicksu]

I'm going to assume they've done skin checks for things such as fungal infections or scabies?

Really silly question I know, but have they checked your blood count? My mum, (who does not have diabetes) had persistently itching skin (doctors of course gave various creams) and then finally did a blood test after months of misery - I think you can guess the result! Way too low red cell count - with the result being that she ended up on iron tablets for months.

Just a thought!

In any event, just a small note. Exercise is going to be your key for dropping weight (it also helps with your BG levels). I lost my weight by walking (gradually building up from a 10 minute walk to a brisk 30 minute walk). Find some exercise you enjoy (or don't find too tedious...!) and you will find you will stick with it (not to mention your fitness and energy levels will increase).

Good luck in finding out the source of your problem.

 

[lovinglife]

I get very itchy & dry lower legs, I have psoriasis and it’s not that, I also don’t think it’s linked to my T2 as I’ve been like that since a teenager (40 odd years) I find that a antihistamine can sometimes help break the itch scratch cycle and when bathing using an emollient cream rather than soap or shower gel on my legs.

 

[TOnline]

Thanks for the replies all.

@ajbod
All the good stuff. Rice, Pasta, Biscuits, That's rough lol.

@jjraak
I'm having one of those calmer days, I can still feel bits but compared to how the previous 2 days were, they were extremely irritating. It's not itching in one area for me it's everywhere, on my scalp, my eyes, nostrils, face, arms, torso, legs, even on the hands and feet more recently as well. Sometimes feels like a standard itch, sometimes like skin crawling or a loose hair on your skin, sometimes like pin pricks.

@Nicksu
Nobody has really looked at my skin. I went to my GP and explained my problem and she simply asked if I had any noticeable rashes on my skin to which I said no. I do get a lot of spots on my body particularly around the belly but I always put it down to being overweight, I didn't and don't have any noticeable rashes so once I told her I didn't have a rash she didn't really check, although she did briefly get me to lift my top and lay down whilst doing a check on my stomach and liver. I suggested if it was possible I could have scabies without a rash showing and I was told no by her, and a second doctor and the nurse also said Scabies shows with a rash.

Between going there in October and January I'd had 4 blood tests done which just shown the high glucose and high liver count, the Nurse said my iron levels were fine if I remember rightly. She is the last person I have seen who gave me the option of how to proceed and I chose Metformin and it's a case of see if we can drop the numbers down and whether it resolves the itching issue or else we'll have to investigate further. So I'm kinda in limbo now until I can get those numbers down and I'm not sure at which level it will need to be before it's meant to stop the itching. As I say, it's likely I've been diabetic for years, it's odd to me that this Itching symptom only started up in October.

@lovinglife I was recommended to try an Antihistamine before seeing the doctor, I was taking Fexofenodine, didn't particularly feel like it did anything amazing, I was trying all itch creams, I was putting good old Calomine Lotion on which gave me great relief when it first started but then seemed to wear off. There has been no fix so far that's for sure.

 

[Hopeful34]

I had an itchy back for ages, and the only thing that works for me is washing with Dermol 500, drying myself and then applying Dermol 500 again. Very occasionally need a tiny bit of steroid cream in winter.

 

[Ryhia]

I had itchy skin before I was diagnosed with diabetes. I was prescribed things like antihistamines and creams but they weren't much good. I changed my GP as my old surgery closed and the new GP decided to do a routine blood test which included an A1c. The result came back that I was diabetic After diagnosis I worked to get my bloods under control and managed to get into remission. Since being in remission, I am no longer bothered by the itching

 

[ajbod]

The reference to pin pricks, sounds more like Peripheral Neuropathy, both @KennyA and myself suffered from this prior to any full diagnosis whilst still pre diabetic. Again these things massively improved with lowered sugar levels.
What about the good stuff like Bacon and eggs, high meat content sausages, fried mushrooms, stir frys etc.

 

[TOnline]

It's definitely adding to the drive to lower them hearing you guys had results. Tough to avoid the things you've been so used to happily consuming all these years. Love the Bacon and Eggs, actually had a fry up for dinner yesterday.

@Hopeful34 That's something I had actually, prior to how I am now but my back would always get really hot and itchy when sat on a racer chair. I never really considered anything like diabetes at the time. It was often but I always thought just the heat and sweat from being sat for long periods. That would go away when I was up and moving about as opposed to this situation which just does what it wants when it wants.

We'll see how things go. I'm praying I can get rid of it.

 

[Lupf]

Hi @TOnline welcome to the forum.
Regarding fizzy drinks, I had the same cravings when I was diagnosed with T2. I immediately went cold turkey and just stopped drinking cola et al. It worked. I don't drink sugar free cola et al. either, as this still makes me hungry 2 hours later. Basically, I drink water (from tap and sparkling), coffee and tea, all without sugar. I also stopped fruit juices (6 or 7 oranges in a glass of OJ and you would not eat 6 or 7 oranges), i used to still drink one glass of 50% diluted apple juice with dinner, but this happens rarely now.

 

[littlebrownbird]

@TOnline Just wanted to suggest Dermol 500 to use as a shower gel/soap/moisturiser to ease the itching, until you get to the cause of the problem. It is available on prescription but also over the counter at any pharmacy

Also, while reduced HDL cholesterol is considered a positive marker, it can result in dry skin and hair. Adding some healthy fats to your diet should help mitigate this; monosaturated fats like extra virgin olive oil, avocados and Omega 3s from oily/SMASH fish (Salmon, Mackerel, Anchovies, Sardines, Herring).

 

[LivingLightly]

The nurse gave me the option of how to proceed and I chose Metformin and it's a case of see if we can drop the numbers down and whether it resolves the itching issue or else we'll have to investigate further. So I'm kinda in limbo now until I can get those numbers down and I'm not sure at which level it will need to be before it's meant to stop the itching. As I say, it's likely I've been diabetic for years, it's odd to me that this Itching symptom only started up in October.

Evening @TOnline.

Well you're another year older for one. These sorts of symptoms tend to develop as we age. Rest assured that doesn't mean you're stuck with it for the rest of your natural. It's good news that liver and kidney disorders have been excluded. Type 2 diabetes is a very individual disorder though. We're all different. Nobody can tell you in advance the level your BG levels must fall, before your generalised itching stops.

I'm a metformin user. Please bear in mind that metformin doesn't necessarily work on a day-to-day basis. Its therapeutic effects are cumulative. Whilst some users have reported lower BG levels during the first week of treatment, it takes 2 to 3 months to reach maximum effectiveness. Meanwhile, I'd keep a food diary alongside your BG results and adjust your carbohydrate intake as necessary.

Well done for reducing your HbA1c result from 69 mmol/mol to 56 in 3 months. That's a start. An HbA1c result under 43 mmol/mol is considered normal, 43 to 48 is classed as pre-diabetic or borderline, while a reading over 48 is diabetic

 

[KennyA]

Hi Kenny

Thanks for the reply. This is interesting to know and a positive to hear you actually managed to get rid of your itch. Can I ask what the mid 40's measurement is you are referring to? What would that number be in the daily MMOL measurements?

I've been on one tablet in the morning 500mg Metformin for like 5-6 days. Not seeing any drastic decreases, last 3 days it's been 9.7 - 8.4 - 8.4 upon waking. As I say I had a 7.7 reading in January when I wasn't even on medication or making a particular effort to watch what I consumed.

And for me there isn't really any other symptoms or issues bugging me besides this darn itching.

Sorry, been away from forum for a couple of days.

The mid-40 figure is for an HbA1c result. It doesn't really translate to a fingerprick test result as the two measures a) measure completely different things (blood glucose and glycated red blood cells) and b) the A1c is a three-month retrospective measure and the other is a current snapshot which might be affected by any number of things.

 

[MissMuffett]

Hi @TOnline just to add to everyone’s advice and experiences. I had terrible contact dermatitis on my hands and the itching drove me mad, so bad the rash sometimes would bleed I’m embarrassed to say. Since going very low carb it’s almost gone and the tube of ointment lasts a very long time now.
You say you’ve changed to sugar free soda, could it be something in that which is causing it? With some of us the sweet taste will cause a BG reaction even though there is no natural sugar in it. I sympathise with you.

 

[TOnline]

Hi @MissMuffett I don't think it would be switching to sugar free causing it as I used to drink that often regardless even when I'd drink sugary stuff too. I couldn't really come up with any change that occurred in October that would suddenly end up with permanent itching. I was feeling relatively calm the past couple of days with it and I have been trying that Doublebase Relief cream I saw mentioned on here, although today when I woke my lower legs felt really itchy and arms felt a bit sore on the skin almost like a Sun burnt feeling. I can sense the little irritation here there and everywhere happening again too.