Weighing on my mind.

[Lamont D]

I was going to put this in my usual update thread but I think putting this in a different thread is more open, as I've been disturbed by my endocrinologist report since it came through the post.
We discussed my weight and the over snacking he seems to believe I'm doing or eating too much as I believe.
I have to constantly have small meals every three hours.
He was upset with me because i had gained a little weight and though I know I have to keep weight off and get it down to about another 8 kilos down, just over a stone! He was literally warning me, I had to get rid of the extra weight but insisted I lose more.
My endocrinologist was describing to me how more visceral fat around my organs was not beneficial to me. I knew this beforehand but never noticed my midsection had grown half an inch.
How important is visceral fat to RH or other conditions similar to diabetes?
How important is it to be as slim as possible as a RH er?
Do you need to be as near optimum weight as possible to feel better?
Will all my good work go to the devil because I'm not as slim as I should be?
I'm already eating next to nothing, can't fast, because I'm working more than full time in my job.

I have always believed that my excess insulin was the culprit for all my weight gain and doing very low carb was the answer to losing most of the weight that has gone! (5 stone and 6 inches around the waist).
I don't feel any worse off for the weight gain and am as clear minded as I've been since diagnosis.
I know he's right, but how frustrating can this condition be?
I would consider options.
I need to lose more weight, but what more can I do?

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Nosher, I guess the fat and protein we do not use can be turned to fat and stored if they are not excreted? Perhaps we do not notice the marginal increase in insulin use over a 24 hour day. Now you have been told you can compensate. atb Derek

 

[Lamont D]

Hi Nosher, I guess the fat and protein we do not use can be turned to fat and stored if they are not excreted? Perhaps we do not notice the marginal increase in insulin use over a 24 hour day. Now you have been told you can compensate. atb Derek

Thanks Derek,

My endocrinologist asked if I was having too much full fat.
Again I don't think I do because of my dairy intolerance.
But you never know, the fat I get from meat and fats that I cook with seem not enough.
Maybe I should knock off the full fat yoghurt as unbeknownst to me the milk could be turning into visceral fat.
I just don't know!
Will take your advice on board.
Thanks again mate.
Much obliged.

 

[hankjam]

@nosher8355 been wondering the same recently. Not put on much weight, if at all but a ring of fat does seem to have appeared round the middle and BGs been slightly up... be interested to see what I weigh next sunday, fortnightly weigh day.

 

[Lamont D]

By my maths @hankjam, you have lost 24 kilo since diagnosis which is well over three stone, so well done on that!

Could you do with losing more? What could you do to achieve that?

I think I will wait to see if anyone else can suggest something.

Thanks anyway , hope your weigh in is fruitful.

 

[Brunneria]

Ummm... This has been occupying my mind lately - not because of weight gain, but because of failure to lose.
Sorry to anyone who has seen (and got bored with) my other posts on this subject.

There may be a lot of factors in play.

Cortisol is the hormone that deposits fat around the middle (say Eric Berg and Jason Fung). It is the stress hormone.
Insulin is the hormone that deposits / stores fat generally.

In order to gain weight (fat) you need those hormones present in sufficient quantities.

As T2s or RHers we already have insulin resistance.
You can have cortisol resistance too if you are exposed to raised cortisol (stress) levels for extended periods (says Fung).

Fung reckons that fasting reduces insulin resistance because insulin drops between meals, and the longer the fast, the greater the insulin drop.

Presumably when stress levels drop something similar happens with cortisol.
They both recommend stress management strategies and lots of sleep, if your weight is linked to cortisol.

Check out both their websites - they are illuminating.

Sorry @hankjam, i can't comment on your situation at all, but for @nosher8355 , if you have recently stopped a regular fasting regime you may need to drop carbs (are you still eating fruit?) to compensate. Or reintroduce fasting.

In my situation, i have found that VLC and 16/8 hr fasts do not overcome my high insulin levels, so may have to go further.
I am currently sulking about this.
When i get over my sulk i expect i will do some 24-36 hr fasts.

 

[Lamont D]

I will have a read later, after the footie and darts!
But I'm calm and not stressed, I have no real concerns that I haven't had for quite a while. I am certain that I may be eating too much and producing too much insulin for what I eat, it maybe the fruit, I will cut down on that again, ****!!
Im not having having my usual yoghurt at bedtime just some gammon, that I've been eyeing and picking at since I came home from work.
I will definitely study the cortisol article as another hormone I should know about and if applicable to a male RH er!
Yes, there are so many things to ponder about and why the weight should go back on sneakily, I haven't changed an awful lot, I eat because, I need to. That's why I think I'm just eating too much.

It could be the long winter nights and not doing enough to keep my weight down.it's of work to do, so busy! But not stressed about cos I enjoy my job!

I just don't know and I can't decide which is causing my weight gain!

I have a new blog on my blogs page, could you give me your opinion please @@Brunneria.

 

[Brunneria]

I can't get into your blog @nosher8355 haven't been able to for a while. Sorry.

 

[Lamont D]

Ok no worries, I may rewrite into our forum. Thanks @Brunneria.

 

[Kaz261]

Sorry you're feeling a little perplexed Nosher. I wish I could offer some useful advice as you've done for me so many times, but unfortunately I can't.

I hope you get to the bottom of your weight gain soon. Have you tried logging what you eat on something like My Fitness Pal app? You might be surprised by how many calories you may be eating for instance.

Don't be too hard on yourself or too downhearted. We have a difficult enough time keeping ourselves feeling as good as we can through diet. It's a daily battle with varying results. Let's hope with a few little tweaks, you'll be back on track soon xx

 

[CollieBoy]

I too, am being locked out of Nosher's blogs, in fact they don't even appear on the list of blogs!

 

[Lamont D]

I too, am being locked out of Nosher's blogs, in fact they don't even appear on the list of blogs!

Thanks @CollieBoy
I've tagged @Administrator and @Giverny. To see if they could help but no answer yet! I'll let you know when I do

Thanks for the interest.

 

[AndBreathe]

Well, I'm not RH, but if you don't mind I'll just pass some comment for pondering. They may, or not, be relevant.

Whether we are RH, diabetic, lactose intolerant or even normal (whatever that means), we will each have a balancing point in our way of living whereby we feel good, and maintain weight - whether that's ultra skinny or morbidly obese, we have that balance point. Of course, the balance point may not be optimal in terms of nutrition, body stats or even how we feel, but it's our balance point. At that point, provided we change nothing, we won't gain or lose weight and quite possibly other things will also remain static. In order to change something, we have to breech the balance point. For those of us with metabolic issues, in one form or another, the issue is finding the factors making most difference.

If I can make an observation, Nosher? You say you have been working more of late, and therefore unable to fast? That would immediately be the first thing I looked at. If you have gone from eat x amount of food for 6 days out of 7 (or 13 from 14, or whatever), then by not fasting, you are already increasing your weekly food intake by one whole day's worth? Whilst you may move around more at work, it is unlikely you move around enough to negate all of the additional food you are eating (by virtue of not fasting)

If you feel you would be unable to fast at work (when I fasted eons ago, I found it easiest when working as I was busy and not constantly thinking if I was hungry or noting that I wasn't eating lunch, or whatever), then depending on how frequent those fasts were, I would trim back my eating accordingly. Fasting needn't be full 24 or 36 hour fasts, you could choose to try either starting eating later in the day or finishing earlier?

I don't know how much weight you have gained, but working purely on the 0.5 inch increase in your girth, it's probably not a lot. Perhaps your Consultant's tone was as much a fearful plea for you not to undo the good you have done for yourself by continuing to regain the weight you have lost. If you are not due to see him again for some months, he could be fearful of how much you could have regained by next time, more than the actual today situation?

My personal thoughts are that for anyone who has or has had issues with IR, it makes sense to keep very close tabs on the visceral fat. I know that's not the easiest thing to monitor at home, but there are weighing scales that work though multi-point bio electrical impedance. My Omron scales do this. If you were to consider buying something similar (there are oodles of models out there), then it's important to have a model allowing measurement via hands and feet. In other words, hand grips as well as the usual step on type floor plate. My scales measure visceral fat on a scale of 0-30. I am at 3, and keep a close eye on that number.

Do you have all of your test results Nosher? Had any of your other markers changed at all; your HbA1c, lipids and so on?

@hankjam - What meter and batch number of strips are you using these days? I have seen a modest number of folks report variable, but generally slightly increased numbers from a batch of Codefree strips ending 037. I'm now cross checking these against my new lot, and am finding the new ones (ending 127) to be much closer to what I would expect from usual routines and trusted foods). Obviously, I have no way of knowing if that factor is in play for you, just throwing it into the mix for consideration.

Sorry it's such a long post, and @Brunneria , I concede your condition, with all it's complicating factors, falls outside my general musings, so forgive. I just don't have enough of a grasp on your other challenges to make even remotely valid guesses!

 

[Lamont D]

Wow @AndBreathe!

What a lovely and considered approach to my concerns, I can't thank you enough for the time spent replying and for the really sensible and logical post.
No other readings, hba1c etc has changed, I'm in normal range most of the time, it is as you say his warning to my putting on just under a kilo.
I have not before our last appointment considered how weight is such an important factor in treatment for RH. It is hard to explain because we do need to get rid of the visceral fat, because that's how our bloods go higher than they should. A RH er should be in normal range as much as possible, the nearer the normal figure the better, we don't want any spikes if at all possible. If we don't spike high enough, we don't go on to hypo.
You are correct in your assumption, that fasting has been part of my lifestyle in my recent history and the less time eating the small meals I have to eat the better.
However, I'm out early (ish) and my job has a lot of walking and a lot of manual work.
I was advised to eat before work and every three hours even if it is a bite of something just to prevent any chance of going hypo.
I did try to fast during work, without anything but I lost my energy by eleven am, without going hypo, I just didn't feel to good until I had something.
It's funny because if I'm off work, if I fast, my bloods don't go anywhere. If I have breakfast, I need to keep topping up throughout the day.
Regenerative sleep is so important and I have more energy with a good six hours, any disruptive sleep and my energy levels are a bit lower.
I think @Brunneria gave me the low down on fat threshold quite a while ago and I have read about it before, I do need to get my balance of protein, fats and veg sorted, though my body is healthy except for my weird pancreas. I did think I had cracked it and was still slowly losing weight, I never have weighed myself, and I don't own one because my lovely wife would hurl it in the bin for some reason!
Probably something to do with obsession and she doesn't want to know her weight even though she is doing well with her T2.
I have been so busy that I'm not off work till next weekend and will be really busy through the summer months until back to normal working hours around October.
My new job is moving and a lot of work I do is during the move and coincides with the season beginning.

I am considering all options, I have already reduced some of my small meals in amount I consume, I have done without bread for I usually have one slice of Bergen a day, I have had salad for my main meal all week, and knocked off my yoghurt as well, just to see what happens.
I still don't feel any different, but I know this is for life and will work through it.

Many thanks again for your musings, I really do appreciate it.

 

[AndBreathe]

Wow @AndBreathe!

What a lovely and considered approach to my concerns, I can't thank you enough for the time spent replying and for the really sensible and logical post.
No other readings, hba1c etc has changed, I'm in normal range most of the time, it is as you say his warning to my putting on just under a kilo.
I have not before our last appointment considered how weight is such an important factor in treatment for RH. It is hard to explain because we do need to get rid of the visceral fat, because that's how our bloods go higher than they should. A RH er should be in normal range as much as possible, the nearer the normal figure the better, we don't want any spikes if at all possible. If we don't spike high enough, we don't go on to hypo.
You are correct in your assumption, that fasting has been part of my lifestyle in my recent history and the less time eating the small meals I have to eat the better.
However, I'm out early (ish) and my job has a lot of walking and a lot of manual work.
I was advised to eat before work and every three hours even if it is a bite of something just to prevent any chance of going hypo.
I did try to fast during work, without anything but I lost my energy by eleven am, without going hypo, I just didn't feel to good until I had something.
It's funny because if I'm off work, if I fast, my bloods don't go anywhere. If I have breakfast, I need to keep topping up throughout the day.
Regenerative sleep is so important and I have more energy with a good six hours, any disruptive sleep and my energy levels are a bit lower.
I think @Brunneria gave me the low down on fat threshold quite a while ago and I have read about it before, I do need to get my balance of protein, fats and veg sorted, though my body is healthy except for my weird pancreas. I did think I had cracked it and was still slowly losing weight, I never have weighed myself, and I don't own one because my lovely wife would hurl it in the bin for some reason!
Probably something to do with obsession and she doesn't want to know her weight even though she is doing well with her T2.
I have been so busy that I'm not off work till next weekend and will be really busy through the summer months until back to normal working hours around October.
My new job is moving and a lot of work I do is during the move and coincides with the season beginning.

I am considering all options, I have already reduced some of my small meals in amount I consume, I have done without bread for I usually have one slice of Bergen a day, I have had salad for my main meal all week, and knocked off my yoghurt as well, just to see what happens.
I still don't feel any different, but I know this is for life and will work through it.

Many thanks again for your musings, I really do appreciate it.

I'm astonished under a kilo would equate to half an inch on your waist, but if it does, it does.

Nosher, if your wife doesn't want to weigh herself, then perhaps you can think of somewhere you can have the scales that wouldn't "offend" her? If your weight is to be as important to you as your Consultant suggests, then if I were in your shoes, I would be considering I was only doing half my job but purely monitoring my bloods. Alternatively, if your local Boots or supermarket has a coin-op weighing scale, you could rock up every few weeks and weigh yourself?

If you choose to do the latter, then I would urge you to do that before you have eaten, or to have something like a cube of cheese before you go, because your weight will vary through the day, depending upon what you have eaten or drunk. Indeed, I have a day to day variance in my weight too, and many do the same. If, as happens sometimes, I eat a lot (OK, so I eat a lot, often!), and it includes a more gargantuan pile of veggie, or additional carbs, then the reading on the scales will sometimes blip up a pound or two, so I am mindful to take my average over the course of a week. I step on and off the scales every morning, when I get up, before my cup of tea.

Of course, it's possible you had either eaten, or dunk more the day you weighed up a bit, and half an inch on the waist seems little to get overheated about, but as we agree, he may be, reassuringly, voicing his concern, rather than just thinking; "Here we go, he's heading off the wagon", and saying nothing.

I would suggest you use something like MyFitnessPal to log your meals for a short while. It's a little fiddly the first few times you do it, but quickly becomes very quick, as your regular foods are stored on your account, and only a click away. If you do this for what you eat and drink, without any trimming back, you will quickly see how much of each nutrient you eat, and what you can trim back on, to roughly accommodate your lack of fasting. Depending on the frequency of your posting, it may not be much, as what you need to cut back on sounds like it isn't huge, and of course you're averaging that trimming back over the period of your fasting (by that I mean trying to trim back by the total of your daily amount over the period between which you would normally fast).

I know you don't have T2, but your condition, as I understand it does have insulin resistance and fat storage in the mix. Some time ago, I wrote to Professor Taylor at Newcastle to ask him some questions about what he felt were pivotal factors, in terms of maintaining non-diabetic levels and improved IR. He was pretty succinct, to be honest. It pretty much amounted to:

- Find a maintenance way of eating of indeterminate, personal nature
- Maintain weight loss (maintaining the position of being under the personal fat threshold - PFT)
- Be mindful of any adverse signs detected.

When I gave him my details, and explained I hadn't used shakes or done the very low calorie approach at all, but asked him what chance he felt there was I could maintain my non-diabetic HbA1c and other markers. For me, he reckons, bearing in mind I explained I had continued with lower carbs than prior to diagnosis, and a number of good HbA1cs, he stated simply I shouldn't regain weight. He did of concede I had no idea how close to or far from my PFT, and I'm hoping I never find that out (as I would have re-crossed it), so maintaining weight is critical to me. I'f I'm honest, I'm probably a margin below my PFT, when I think when I first had non-diabetic bloods and how much I had trimmed up to that point.

It's a tricky puzzle, for sure!

 

[Lamont D]

I'm astonished under a kilo would equate to half an inch on your waist, but if it does, it does.

Nosher, if your wife doesn't want to weigh herself, then perhaps you can think of somewhere you can have the scales that wouldn't "offend" her? If your weight is to be as important to you as your Consultant suggests, then if I were in your shoes, I would be considering I was only doing half my job but purely monitoring my bloods. Alternatively, if your local Boots or supermarket has a coin-op weighing scale, you could rock up every few weeks and weigh yourself?

If you choose to do the latter, then I would urge you to do that before you have eaten, or to have something like a cube of cheese before you go, because your weight will vary through the day, depending upon what you have eaten or drunk. Indeed, I have a day to day variance in my weight too, and many do the same. If, as happens sometimes, I eat a lot (OK, so I eat a lot, often!), and it includes a more gargantuan pile of veggie, or additional carbs, then the reading on the scales will sometimes blip up a pound or two, so I am mindful to take my average over the course of a week. I step on and off the scales every morning, when I get up, before my cup of tea.

Of course, it's possible you had either eaten, or dunk more the day you weighed up a bit, and half an inch on the waist seems little to get overheated about, but as we agree, he may be, reassuringly, voicing his concern, rather than just thinking; "Here we go, he's heading off the wagon", and saying nothing.

I would suggest you use something like MyFitnessPal to log your meals for a short while. It's a little fiddly the first few times you do it, but quickly becomes very quick, as your regular foods are stored on your account, and only a click away. If you do this for what you eat and drink, without any trimming back, you will quickly see how much of each nutrient you eat, and what you can trim back on, to roughly accommodate your lack of fasting. Depending on the frequency of your posting, it may not be much, as what you need to cut back on sounds like it isn't huge, and of course you're averaging that trimming back over the period of your fasting (by that I mean trying to trim back by the total of your daily amount over the period between which you would normally fast).

I know you don't have T2, but your condition, as I understand it does have insulin resistance and fat storage in the mix. Some time ago, I wrote to Professor Taylor at Newcastle to ask him some questions about what he felt were pivotal factors, in terms of maintaining non-diabetic levels and improved IR. He was pretty succinct, to be honest. It pretty much amounted to:

- Find a maintenance way of eating of indeterminate, personal nature
- Maintain weight loss (maintaining the position of being under the personal fat threshold - PFT)
- Be mindful of any adverse signs detected.

When I gave him my details, and explained I hadn't used shakes or done the very low calorie approach at all, but asked him what chance he felt there was I could maintain my non-diabetic HbA1c and other markers. For me, he reckons, bearing in mind I explained I had continued with lower carbs than prior to diagnosis, and a number of good HbA1cs, he stated simply I shouldn't regain weight. He did of concede I had no idea how close to or far from my PFT, and I'm hoping I never find that out (as I would have re-crossed it), so maintaining weight is critical to me. I'f I'm honest, I'm probably a margin below my PFT, when I think when I first had non-diabetic bloods and how much I had trimmed up to that point.

It's a tricky puzzle, for sure!

It surely is puzzling.
I think and I believe that I am eating too much.
You see, ever since low carbing and diagnosis, I have lost a lot of weight and I really did think that everything in the garden was rosy. I was put in an unusual position for me as I thought I had this condition of mine under tight control and I was extremely belligerent in my approach to how I fed and fasted, it's like a kick in the proverbial.
I will have access to weighing and fat measurement equipment at our new base but that won't be for a couple of months, I don't get to the shops or chemists everything is ordered in.
I will discuss some weighing scales with the wife but I won't hold my breath!
No I don't eat a lot in my small meals and I'm already cutting back.
I will look at myfitnesspal to see if it will help me.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm so use to giving advice and I will learn from this experience.
Will just have to wait and see. Even if it means trying other things.
It is a good job I'm never hungry.
I'm going to have my sixth small meal in about an hours time, finishing off some gammon and a little bit of salad. Then some nuts before bed.

Are you sure, I'm not creating a mountain out of a molehill?

Thanks again!

 

[Lamont D]

Update,

I weighed myself in work today and I was a pound less than I was a fortnight ago.
I have changed my established eating regime and am eating far less than I was.
For instance I have not had the yoghurt first thing in the morning and at night.
I have stopped the fruit, except for my small Apple for my morning mid meal. I have replaced the fruit with a big tomato. Also more nuts!
Have rationed (think I'm back to my childhood, when things were short!) myself on the meat but still have plenty of salad.
Maybe just maybe, this form of punishment will kick start my weight loss.

Don't feel any better, don't think I could!
Don't feel lighter, my belt has not moved!

Hope the scales are right!

 

[lindisfel]

I am with you Nosher I aim to go to 7 lbs below my target weight. Walked 4 miles today. It was not flat! Atb Derek

Update,

I weighed myself in work today and I was a pound less than I was a fortnight ago.
I have changed my established eating regime and am eating far less than I was.
For instance I have not had the yoghurt first thing in the morning and at night.
I have stopped the fruit, except for my small Apple for my morning mid meal. I have replaced the fruit with a big tomato. Also more nuts!
Have rationed (think I'm back to my childhood, when things were short!) myself on the meat but still have plenty of salad.
Maybe just maybe, this form of punishment will kick start my weight loss.

Don't feel any better, don't think I could!
Don't feel lighter, my belt has not moved!

Hope the scales are right!

 

[Lamont D]

Been on my feet at work all day. Must have walked about fifty miles (yeah ok about 3!)
Weekend off for a change. The only walking I'm doing tomorrow is the dog getting half hour in the morning and evening.
Might even get a lie in! (doubt it!)

 

[Linagirl]

I'm struggling with weight too Nosher. I haven't gained any but I can't lose it! It doesn't matter what j do - have tried working out at the gym! Waking two miles a day- changing diet up a bit! Nothing makes a difference. I know consultant will be cross when I go and I will sound like I am making it up how virtuous I have been but it's true. I am hypothyroid too but some ting is stopping my body letting go xx