My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

[CherryAA]

I hope so too.

Had a good day at work incidentally: not one thought about food today. My meal from last night kept me full and focused. Let’s hope I carry on losing weight!

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[Kristin251]

yeah - this stuff is just bizarre .
As @Mr_Pot points out , - I should be stating "in my opinion" everywhere and he's right. It's nice when my meanderings prove useful to someone. I must admit I wondered when it happened to me if I should be mentioning it as a treatment for hypo's for people with different problems than T2 but I thought - nah that' just too weird to be credible!
It does reinforce the idea that at least some of these response are not volume related just type.

It is bizarre. I find a radish or a baby carrot or even a pinky fingernail bite if dark choco will take me out of a small hypo. I rarely go below 70 but I hit 65 and baby carrot took me to 78. Obviously I am very carb sensative.
Just thought you'd like to know it isn't just you. If I had it after a fatty meal with protein I'm sure it wouldn't have been that extreme.

Another thing YOU noticed the I notice as well is I have a protein tolerance level as well. And it does take a few days to sort it out. I eyeball my carbs as I really don't eat any other than a few veg snibblets , avocado and nuts but I do still weigh my protein. Fat I just eat as I choose. Since being VERY careful with my evening meal protein ( I generally Fran some of my hubbies as well as my own) my fastings have greatly improved and no DP however I do still need to eat when I get up or I'll just rise all day.

It is a balancing act isn't it!! I just stick to my same macros at each meal and away I go. Not too many surprises.

 

[CherryAA]

You repeat this a lot in your posts. Shouldn't you be adding "in my opinion"?

Yep you are totally right - everything I say is in my opinion though in this case is a pretty well informed opinion in terms of the research I used to get there for the most part .

I agree that the idea that the size of the spike might be not be as volume related as we think is pretty much a "personal opinion" at present . I can't find anywhere in the literature that anyone has ever actually tested this with the kind of tiny quantities I am talking about . Given that both 5g candy and a tiny slice of carrot is miniscule. Its not something I would expect people to notice in the general noise of a diet.

The nice thing about this one meal a day thing is that it does throw things like that into stark relief.

As for the omega 6 - oils. I've posted elsewhere on that so I won't repeat it , but you can find my views on my blog here if interested.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-insulin-theory-diet.1818/#comment-2212

I've also listed the research I used to derive - Om 3-Om 6 matched, no industrial seed oils - here.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/a-unifying-theory-of-disease.1795/#comment-2259

I will try and remember to put " in my opinion " when I type in future - even on my own thread - I do try to do that in other places at least some of the time. Thanks for the smacked wrist !

 

[CherryAA]

It is bizarre. I find a radish or a baby carrot or even a pinky fingernail bite if dark choco will take me out of a small hypo. I rarely go below 70 but I hit 65 and baby carrot took me to 78. Obviously I am very carb sensative.
Just thought you'd like to know it isn't just you. If I had it after a fatty meal with protein I'm sure it wouldn't have been that extreme.

Another thing YOU noticed the I notice as well is I have a protein tolerance level as well. And it does take a few days to sort it out. I eyeball my carbs as I really don't eat any other than a few veg snibblets , avocado and nuts but I do still weigh my protein. Fat I just eat as I choose. Since being VERY careful with my evening meal protein ( I generally Fran some of my hubbies as well as my own) my fastings have greatly improved and no DP however I do still need to eat when I get up or I'll just rise all day.

It is a balancing act isn't it!! I just stick to my same macros at each meal and away I go. Not too many surprises.

Thank for the info @Kristin251. I suspect the extent of just how sensitive they are to small items of food might come as a surprise to many I guess one day someone might do a study on it.
the protein thing was a real eye opener too. Its taken a good two days to get back to " normal" .
I agree with you that determining a macro to stick to is important.
I chose 30g carbs, 70g proteins - and in any event 100g total if I overshoot either . As a matter of interest would you mind telling me where you ended up on that? per meal and or per day ?

 

[DCUKMod]

Yep you are totally right - everything I say is in my opinion though in this case is a pretty well informed opinion in terms of the research I used to get there for the most part .

I agree that the idea that the size of the spike might be not be as volume related as we think is pretty much a "personal opinion" at present . I can't find anywhere in the literature that anyone has ever actually tested this with the kind of tiny quantities I am talking about . Given that both 5g candy and a tiny slice of carrot is miniscule. Its not something I would expect people to notice in the general noise of a diet.

The nice thing about this one meal a day thing is that it does throw things like that into stark relief.

As for the omega 6 - oils. I've posted elsewhere on that so I won't repeat it , but you can find my views on my blog here if interested.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-insulin-theory-diet.1818/#comment-2212

I've also listed the research I used to derive - Om 3-Om 6 matched, no industrial seed oils - here.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/a-unifying-theory-of-disease.1795/#comment-2259

I will try and remember to put " in my opinion " when I type in future - even on my own thread - I do try to do that in other places at least some of the time. Thanks for the smacked wrist !

Cherry - As this thread lengthens, experience tells me fewer and fewer people coming to the post anew will read it from the beginning, and may no fully appreciate this is your personal trial of an theory and approach.

Would you consider having your thread title appended to reflect that, to read something like "My personal hypothesis - T2 Low insulin Diet"? I think that might help avoid misunderstandings.

Obviously those words are a suggestion for clarification.

 

[CherryAA]

Cherry - As this thread lengthens, experience tells me fewer and fewer people coming to the post anew will read it from the beginning, and may no fully appreciate this is your personal trial of an theory and approach.

Would you consider having your thread title appended to reflect that, to read something like "My personal hypothesis - T2 Low insulin Diet"? I think that might help avoid misunderstandings.

Obviously those words are a suggestion for clarification.

sure , that makes sense.

In the end it would be better than me prefacing everything I say with "in my opinion " .

 

[DCUKMod]

sure , that makes sense.

In the end it would be better than me prefacing everything I say with "in my opinion " .

Well, as we know, folks don't always take in the titles either, so adding "in my opinion" always makes sense.

The longer the thread, the less of them people sometimes read. It's human nature. We tend to pop in, and pop out, and that can sometimes lead to unfortunate misunderstandings.

I'll alter your title now.

 

[CherryAA]

In my opinion ... both of these men are geniuses !
Interestingly Ted Naimman was a vegetarian for many years, and now a big fan of meat for his personal health.

Great interview well worth watching , includes views on fasting insulin , intermittent fasting and explains why I've found I can eat approx double the carb. load in one meal per day - which then opens out the food choices pretty well.

In terms of the waist to height ratio - on diagnosis 69%,, starting this diet 56% , current 53% , goal unstressed 50% (my equiv say 48%)
In terms of fasting insulin - they debate under 4 being ideal.
In terms of cholesterol : trig to HDL ratio being what counts . ( at diag 2.6 , 1 yr on LCHF 0.3) => the lower the better.
I terms of the other lipids things to care about GGT, AST ALT ( for me 1 yr LCHF moved all three to the normal range)

 

[marathonmona]

Another quarter pound off. Not much but I’m hoping for a ‘whoosh’ in the future.
Not measured anything else; not as meticulous as you @CherryAA. I measured my BG an hour after my tea (5.5) but then remembered I’d not measured pre lol. It looks promising though!
I’ll try to do FBG and pre and post prandial every day.
Have woken up with LOTS of energy; I’ll need it for this last week before half term!

 

[CherryAA]

Another quarter pound off. Not much but I’m hoping for a ‘whoosh’ in the future.
Not measured anything else; not as meticulous as you @CherryAA. I measured my BG an hour after my tea (5.5) but then remembered I’d not measured pre lol. It looks promising though!
I’ll try to do FBG and pre and post prandial every day.
Have woken up with LOTS of energy; I’ll need it for this last week before half term!

Well quarter pound a day soon adds up ! if anyone had told me that I could eat that lasagne and EVER do anything but stick weight on, I would have thought they were mad ! it is glorious though isn't it? and it is nice to feel so full of energy while knowing you are actually eating a " calorie controlled " amount of 1500 which frankly again I always thought was laughable.

I would think for all diets how they respond immediately is going to reflect where your body starts from in terms of the stuff already in your blood stream.

It might be worth using a tape measure, I have found the my waist measurement seems to be a bit more responsive than my weight, so this morning, even though I haven't lost weight as such my tape measure feels like its moved down a a little . I did wonder if it was me stretching the material a while ago, so I also use the computer cable off my freestyle which is 90 cm long and didn't meet when I started this, the overlap between the two ends is definitely getting a bit bigger everyday and I somehow doubt I'm strong enough to distort that no matter what I wish for !

My young friend that did this inadvertently earlier in the summer did keep hitting a couple of days stalls before it went down again, so I am hoping the same thing will happen to me too.

My own actual weight has been stalled since I switched to the fish. I think another batch of lasagne might be in the offing , just to make sure it doesn't actually have magical properties for me compared to anything else lol.

Have a lovely day !

 

[CherryAA]

Day 11 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.8 kg )
Waist size 86.5 cm (starting 94 cm)

A tiny increase in weight , but a tiny reduction in waist size . There are two differences between what I was doing in the three days when weight dropped off and the last three . A) eating fish instead of meat. B) doing some exercise instead of remaining sedentary.

I am going to assume that as no-one ever tells you these things are bad, then in practice whatever is going on inside in terms of reorienting my squishy bits between fat and muscle is actually a good thing.!

another bit of salmon today - will I ever run out lol

 

[CherryAA]

Why? The whole thread is titled "My personal hypothesis .....", which I think covers it for the OP. This is a fascinating experiment, that I am watching avidly, alongside many others. To have to keep saying "in my opinion" would simply add bulk and not much else to the very interesting results and comment that CherryAA has given us.

Thanks for the support , however to give @Mr_Pot his due, the moderator contacted me and we agreed to amend the title to make it very much "my personal ramblings" . The thread initially started off just the Low Insulin Diet. - then I figured probably better to make sure people realised I was T2, and now to make sure everyone realises these are my personal ramblings .

I'm an accountant not a doctor and I have zero qualifications for arriving at the conclusions I have other than an ability to read ! and a compulsion to count things.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Many years ago when I went to Weight Watchers, we were told that what we eat today will not have any effect tomorrow, or even the day after. That weight gain/loss takes a few days. Have you done any reading on this? Is it wrong?

 

[Chook]

I'm another one whose enjoying reading your posts on this thread

Your body might be adjusting (like mine does) to the change in diet. No matter what method of eating I use, within two weeks my body has adjusted and weight loss slows right down.

Have you read Dr Jason Fung's latest post https://idmprogram.com/eat-fast-break-fast/ where he discusses the MATADOR study and says that the most effective method of dieting is 'intermittent'- two weeks on / two weeks off. I'm wondering if that might solve the annoying metabolism adjustment.

 

[CherryAA]

Many years ago when I went to Weight Watchers, we were told that what we eat today will not have any effect tomorrow, or even the day after. That weight gain/loss takes a few days. Have you done any reading on this? Is it wrong?

That's an interesting one. I did spend some time today looking at today i.e.- were the results I've achieved simply because for example I had really been starving myself first. In practice the three days before I began I was eating about 2000 calories. I then lost a lot of weight immediately with the calorie restriction to 1000 calories . It might well be that the weight lost during the "magic lasagne" was actually a continuing function of the calorie restriction preceeding it and that might well explain why its not' moved for a couple of days as the magic lasagne works through. If I find that my weight remains stable for another couple of days, I'm going to switch it back to seeing if I can cope on 1,000 calories maximum for three days and see what happens. I understand that switching things up helps anyway.

Amusingly I did find a correlation today - which is bizarre and MUST be a complete coincidence. The days when my liver dump is highest is also the days when my % nutrient intake is lowest and vice versa . I attach the graph. The correlation is quite uncanny ( nutrients right hand scale % of daily recommendations) liver dump maximum point glucose in mmol on the left hand scale .

IF - that had any basis in actual science it would actually have to be the equivalent of saying, my system knows before I do that today I am not going to eat a nutricious enough meal so it will chuck glucose into my system to compensate a few hours before I eat this too low nutrient meal ! I think if I start coming up with that - even as my "personal theory" I will be doomed to being called a quack forever lol.

I did go back and check all the data and days though - just in case somehow my nutrients had got one day out of whack in the report.

I think in general it simply mean " damned lies and statistics can tell you anything" - funny though.

 

[CherryAA]

I'm another one whose enjoying reading your posts on this thread

Your body might be adjusting (like mine does) to the change in diet. No matter what method of eating I use, within two weeks my body has adjusted and weight loss slows right down.

Have you read Dr Jason Fung's latest post https://idmprogram.com/eat-fast-break-fast/ where he discusses the MATADOR study and says that the most effective method of dieting is 'intermittent'- two weeks on / two weeks off. I'm wondering if that might solve the annoying metabolism adjustment.

Yes I have read that. I'm wondering though how to implement it.

I do want to stick to one meal a day if I can, simply because it gives such great insights into how I react to things and what exactly my liver dump actually is. That being the case I really can't actually eat more than about 1500 calories at that meal without feeling sick, So that suggests that that is my " feasting" mode and maybe going to 800 or less would be my " fasting one".

If feasting actually is _ "go all out and eat a lot for a day" and see what happens - e.g maybe doubling up a slightly smaller meal to get all the way to 2400 calories - that might be an option - but I will leave it down the line for a while because I really do actually like this current way of eating. It just takes all the strain of decision making and temptation away so I'm not going to give that up lightly.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@CherryAA

Re your liver dumps, and remembering that the sensor is 10 or so minutes behind the capillary blood finger pricks, and that the glucose in the capillary blood takes a while to arrive, do you make notes about what you do physically and mentally up to 20 mins before the rise happens? Go to the loo? Wash hands, go downstairs? Get a stress surge? Whatever? All these will cause some sort of hormone response that triggers the liver to dump, and then it takes a while for the dumped glucose to show up in the interstitial fluid. Just a thought.

 

[CherryAA]

@CherryAA

Re your liver dumps, and remembering that the sensor is 10 or so minutes behind the capillary blood finger pricks, and that the glucose in the capillary blood takes a while to arrive, do you make notes about what you do physically and mentally up to 20 mins before the rise happens? Go to the loo? Wash hands, go downstairs? Get a stress surge? Whatever? All these will cause some sort of hormone response that triggers the liver to dump, and then it takes a while for the dumped glucose to show up in the interstitial fluid. Just a thought.

None of that seems to make any difference much, I can watch it rise quite happily whilst still laying in bed and see exactly the same increase if I get up, just seems to be an inexorable process, gently rises for up to 90 minutes, gently falls back again.

 

[Bluetit1802]

None of that seems to make any difference much, I can watch it rise quite happily whilst still laying in bed and see exactly the same increase if I get up, just seems to be an inexorable process, gently rises for up to 90 minutes, gently falls back again.

Our hormones have a mind of their own. Is it worse now you have no breakfast? Chunk of cheese? Coffee and cream?

 

[CherryAA]

Our hormones have a mind of their own. Is it worse now you have no breakfast? Chunk of cheese? Coffee and cream?

true enough they do At present I don't want to do anything to control the liver dump. Its not that bad. I figure if my body is actually healing itself the liver dump will come down of its own accord. If eventually I end up metabolically slim and healthy and I still get a liver dump, then I will think about trying to improve it with food.

If diabetes is actually " reversible" as opposed to "controllable" then it should go away.