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Libre on NHS

jimmysmith said:
Same here, I used the Libre for 6 weeks and was very happy to dosage using the results from it, blood tests went way down which made me very happy
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Can we finally get one thing straight. As a diabetic, you are NOT obliged in law to test you blood before driving. This is and always has been just advice. So when the DVLA states they will not or do not recognise the results using the Freestyle Libra system, that means nothing. I have been using the F.L. for nearly 2 years now and never fingerprick unless I have run out of sensors. After reading that so many people seem to have wildly differing readings when comparing fingerpricking and using the F.L. I decided to check. Both readings were within .6 of each other with the F.L being the higher of the two. so I am more than satisfied that at least for me the F.L is perfect.
 
Copernicus said:
Can we finally get one thing straight. As a diabetic, you are NOT obliged in law to test you blood before driving. This is and always has been just advice. So when the DVLA states they will not or do not recognise the results using the Freestyle Libra system, that means nothing. I have been using the F.L. for nearly 2 years now and never fingerprick unless I have run out of sensors. After reading that so many people seem to have wildly differing readings when comparing fingerpricking and using the F.L. I decided to check. Both readings were within .6 of each other with the F.L being the higher of the two. so I am more than satisfied that at least for me the F.L is perfect.
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That's good to know, that BY LAW a diabetic doesn't HAVE TO test their blood every time the drive and every 2 hours while driving. To me that sounds like discrimination if you've not had any incidents. Maybe the driving police "recommend" it instead. It's also good to know someone's Libre is spot on monitoring sugars. Now if only the thing would alert you when you're headed towards low like the Dexcom. I don't see why it can't do that.
 
We are told thatwe are entitled to items then it is the clinical comissioning groups that decide. I recently made a FOI request to my local group and was informed that they do not keep records of the number of diabetics. From that I summise that my local CCG will not be providing the service. Will they provide my removal costs to an area that provides the service
 
When comparing libre against a meter why does everyone assume that the meter is correct? I must admit that in my early use I did too, but what evidence is there that the meters are the benchmark?

As I understand it, both have to be within 15% of LAB RESULTS! So there's every chance that the meter is equally as wrong.

I think that Abbott have contributed to this situation by being so keen to please that they swap the sensor at the slightest suggestion that you have detected an inaccuracy.

I for one are now believing it. I seldom check against the meter, except for the recommended times we all know about. Thankfully not frequent.
 
Eldorado said:
When you offset the monthly cost of BG sticks against the cost of two Libre sensors it doesn't look too bad at all imo. I get thru about 4 tubs of Accuchek Aviva strips every month. If I carry on self funding the Libre I'll be saving the NHS the cost of the BG sticks. And when you factor in all the added benefits of the Libre, the CCG's are making a very short sighted decision. I emailed my CCG recently but so far no reply. Does anyone know of any CCG that has given the go ahead? I heard of one in Scotland but that's it! Plus someone told me even with the go ahead the Libre won't be available in the NHS until next April at the earliest because of the way budgets are allocated. Patience is character building so they say
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I have been told by my CCG West Lothian in Scotland that although approved in England they are not yet approved in Scotland, does anyone know if this is the case?
 
Remember if you have an incident driving and a child is killed you will be assumed to be guilty unless you can prove you took all reasonable steps to drive safely. Most of the Highway Code is not law, but not keeping to it has put many people in jail for many years……

Hence not keeping to what DVLA advises is a very big risk.
 
ringi said:
Remember if you have an incident driving and a child is killed you will be assumed to be guilty unless you can prove you took all reasonable steps to drive safely. Most of the Highway Code is not law, but not keeping to it has put many people in jail for many years……

Hence not keeping to what DVLA advises is a very big risk.
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No one is suggesting that what the DVLA advise is not sensible, but a lot of people are under the impression that it is the law and that is simply not the case.
 
Copernicus said:
By the way, does anybody know why they only last for 2 weeks ? Is it a battery problem ?
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It's a question of the life of the sensor components. Beyond 14 days they've not been able to reliably provide glucose readings without calibration.

Q4444 said:
We are told thatwe are entitled to items then it is the clinical comissioning groups that decide.
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We are not "entitled" to anything. The only thing that we are resolutely given as necessary is Insulin and test strips.

barrym said:
As I understand it, both have to be within 15% of LAB RESULTS! So there's every chance that the meter is equally as wrong.
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This gets misquoted over and over again. 95% of meter readings have to be within 15% of the Yellowstone Lab Analyzer. This is a normal distribution, which means that, in reality, very few readings are ever 15% away (usually about 6%). So the reality is that your meter is likely to be very close to your real glucose level.
 
The other issue is that a normal meter is most unlikely to give you two consecutive reading that are both "out" in the same direction and by much from your real glucose level.. But a libre is very likely to have the same error on lots of readings.

Hence the libre is great to see trends and how the BG changes with different meals etc........
 
mrbroons said:
I have been told by my CCG West Lothian in Scotland that although approved in England they are not yet approved in Scotland, does anyone know if this is the case?
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I don't know about Scotland, but I'm from Lancashire and while they're coming on the NHS, they won't be funded for various areas in the UK. I can't get a NHS funded Libre, although apparently it IS coming on the NHS. ******!
 
tim2000s said:
This gets misquoted over and over again. 95% of meter readings have to be within 15% of the Yellowstone Lab Analyzer. This is a normal distribution, which means that, in reality, very few readings are ever 15% away (usually about 6%). So the reality is that your meter is likely to be very close to your real glucose level.
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I was under the impression that the Libre had to be within the same tolerances. So isn't it fair to assume that it is just as accurate as the meter?

Also, don't meters vary? I use an Accu-Chek Mobile for convenience but my DSN tells me that they are one of the least accurate.
 
Copernicus said:
Can we finally get one thing straight. As a diabetic, you are NOT obliged in law to test you blood before driving. This is and always has been just advice. So when the DVLA states they will not or do not recognise the results using the Freestyle Libra system, that means nothing. I have been using the F.L. for nearly 2 years now and never fingerprick unless I have run out of sensors. After reading that so many people seem to have wildly differing readings when comparing fingerpricking and using the F.L. I decided to check. Both readings were within .6 of each other with the F.L being the higher of the two. so I am more than satisfied that at least for me the F.L is perfect.
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One thing we can get straight is that if DVLA are made aware that you are driving with blood sugars lower than 5.5mmols then they will revoke your driving license. Your GP and DSN will now tell tell DVLA if you are driving with blood sugars lower than 5.5mmols. You are obliged in law not to drive without a driving license and if you do not comply with DVLA requirements then unfortunately your driving license will be revoked. If DVLA feel that there is any ambiguity regarding your own particular circumstances then they will ask you to provide BLOOD glucose test results for 90 consecutive days and if you are unable or willing to do so then they will in every likelihood revoke your driving license. DVLA will not currently accept results from your Freestyle Libre regardless of how 'perfect' you feel your Freestyle Libre is. If you are driving and God forbid have an accident at the wheel with low blood sugars and have not been fingerprick testing this is entirely your personal choice. You will however lose your driving license.
 
barrym said:
I was under the impression that the Libre had to be within the same tolerances. So isn't it fair to assume that it is just as accurate as the meter?

Also, don't meters vary? I use an Accu-Chek Mobile for convenience but my DSN tells me that they are one of the least accurate.
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The Libre should be as accurate as your meter, yes, with all the caveats that apply in relation to Interstitial Fluid.
 
barrym said:
I was under the impression that the Libre had to be within the same tolerances. So isn't it fair to assume that it is just as accurate as the meter?

Also, don't meters vary? I use an Accu-Chek Mobile for convenience but my DSN tells me that they are one of the least accurate.
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Sorry this is complex, but people oten claim it is not! I expect you never studies stats to at least A level, and also you don't know the difference between "accurate" and "repeatable" when doing scientific experiments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision explains some of the maths behind it.

Both meters and the Libre keep to the same standard for "accurate", but a meter is often more "accurate" then the standard says it has to be. The standard does not cover "repeatable". Remember that even how quickly someone puts the top back on the test strip container can effect both "accurate" and "repeatable"! And in the real would no one washes and dries their hands in the correct way before using a meter.

Given the option between a Libre and a meter to make life and death chooses based on a single reading I know what I would choose, however my choose would not be the same if I wished to investage how to imporve my BG control...... (Libre has the great advanage of telling you the direction your BG is moving in that is often more useful then knowing the value itsself unless the value is very low.)
 
Copernicus said:
No one is suggesting that what the DVLA advise is not sensible, but a lot of people are under the impression that it is the law and that is simply not the case.
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Well, having almost lost my licence in 2010 and having 3 police cars and paramedics arrive and the police reporting me to DVLA (as well as myself), well...it may not be law but when they are involved your life is thrown in to chaos..
 
donnellysdogs said:
Well, having almost lost my licence in 2010 and having 3 police cars and paramedics arrive and the police reporting me to DVLA (as well as myself), well...it may not be law but when they are involved your life is thrown in to chaos..
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Same happened to me when I crashed on a motorway while driving in the outside lane at the grand old speed of 22 miles per hour. I still managed to write my car off and almost killed myself. The copper reported me to Swansea and they suspended my license. I almost lost it but after asking a consultant to draft me a begging letter he very kindly did and 3 weeks later they relented. I would have lost my job which was really bad but a damned sight better than losing my life or taking someone elses which I quite easily could have done. I had to send them my blood tester with a full history of blood glucose test results. Had I not done so then I would have lost my license. They do not take any prisoners and they simply do not listen to any explanation that isn't provided by a very senior doctor. That was at least in my own experience. I would add that the policeman came and saw me at home the following day. He was on a days holiday but drove 100 miles there and back to make sure I was ok. What an absolute gentleman.
 
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Diabeticliberty said:
Same happened to me when I crashed on a motorway while driving in the outside lane at the grand old speed of 22 miles per hour. I still managed to write my car off and almost killed myself. The copper reported me to Swansea and they suspended my license. I almost lost it but after asking a consultant to draft me a begging letter he very kindly did and 3 weeks later they relented. I would have lost my job which was really bad but a damned sight better than losing my life or taking someone elses which I quite easily could have done. I had to send them my blood tester with a full history of blood glucose test results. Had I not done so then I would have lost my license. They do not take any prisoners and they simply do not listen to any explanation that isn't provided by a very senior doctor. That was at least in my own experience. I would add that the policeman came and sat me at home the following day. He was on a days holiday but drove 100 miles there and back to make sure I was ok. What an absolute gentleman.
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Yes, very similar... I had two dogs with me! Car left whereI had parked mine on grass verge to treat my hypo though.. police vans cxalled to take my dogs, I got taken home in back of police car. Had to phone friend to take me back to collect car.
Was due for first appt at new hospital next day anyway. The consultant shouted at me though and said I deserved to lose licence for at least a year!! Only thanks to a superb nurse and a different consultant seeing that I had pulled off road though, and was treating mysrlf that I kept licence.

Personally I cannot see how the statement above says it isnt law to test.. because when the law gets involved.. you can lose your licence..
 
donnellysdogs said:
Yes, very similar... I had two dogs with me! Car left whereI had parked mine on grass verge to treat my hypo though.. police vans cxalled to take my dogs, I got taken home in back of police car. Had to phone friend to take me back to collect car.
Was due for first appt at new hospital next day anyway. The consultant shouted at me though and said I deserved to lose licence for at least a year!! Only thanks to a superb nurse and a different consultant seeing that I had pulled off road though, and was treating mysrlf that I kept licence.

Personally I cannot see how the statement above says it isnt law to test.. because when the law gets involved.. you can lose your licence..
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I cannot find anything on DVLA Website that says it is a legal requirement but the charity JDRF says it is a legal requirement to test on their Website. As you very rightly say though whether it's law or not we still end up with no license.
 
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