Goodbye

Mr_Pot

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,573
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Yes, what is going on? There seems to be an outbreak of being offended or whatever. I don't want to see people leaving, especially those that I sometimes disagree with ( I can't remember if that includes @Oldvatr ). It would be a boring forum if we all agreed with everything and didn't question anything. Like many people, I suspect, I usually read "New Posts" rather than going via a particular forum. I think this can lead to misunderstanding if the post is not taken in the context of the name of the particular forum. Apart from those new to diabetes, who need support and balanced information, some controversy is a useful thing as long as it is polite and well argued.
 

chri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
This is a real shame, when we lose posters as valuable as @Oldvatr then in my opinion there is something wrong. I have only come back recently after a fairly long absence due to a prolonged bout of apathy and can`t be arsedness on my part, but I have to say that I have noticed an increased level of both irascibility and a willingness to get offended from some of the posters on here. This may be my imagination and if it is then I apologise but @Oldvatr will be missed for his very informative science and fact based posts, see ya mate, take care and hurry up back.Chris.
 

Grateful

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,398
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
... but I have to say that I have noticed an increased level of both irascibility and a willingness to get offended from some of the posters on here.

For what it's worth, it is much worse on some of the other fora I frequent -- or, in some cases, have actually quit because of the venom. These are mainly hobby-based, of all things. The tone at diabetes.co.uk tends to be much more civil and mutually supportive, which I suppose is not surprising given that we all have a chronic illness to talk about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bluetit1802

Bill_Tanner

Well-Known Member
Messages
62
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Please be wary some pretty extreme religious bigots on these other forums
 

Robbieswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
405
Gender
Male
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
My first post on here sparked a heated debate between forum members and resulted in a member leaving. I was told that's forum life, that different opinions do exist, and people can, and will give it. I see it as that's what makes this forum great. I left hospital with enough leaflets to decorate my entire house, but found it hard to wade through what was relevant to me. In this forum, not only do you get different opinions, experiences and advice, but you get support. You can't get that from a leaflet !
 

Phoenix55

Well-Known Member
Messages
577
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
I look forward to your return @Oldvatr . Until then best wishes with you health and that of the ones close to you. Your contributions will be missed.
 

derry60

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,196
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Rudeness,people being unkind
I obviously just missed something but I haven't seen anything on here that would make someone want to leave.....

would need to be quite significant I would think...
Nor me. I do not know what has gone on,but it is a shame that people are leaving. I have only just found this site : (
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I have now had a chance to ruminate on why I started this thread, and I am beginning to find resolution to one of my conflicts, which I would like to share with you all.

That group of responders here who are insulin dependent (ID) know that keeping strict control of their bgl levels is not only desirable, it is essential to life itself. This has the effect of increasing resistance to change simply because they are at higher risk of immediate and difficult reactions to any cockups that reduces their control regime. So this group quite rightly need proper and correct information and support to answer their needs.

I. as a T2D on orals and diet, have the freedom to experiment and explore other possible treatments, which is something an ID PWD will not be so open to, and so these people have a priority to make sure that the discussions on this forum are correct, and do not give Newbies the impression that it is easy or safe to experiment without both the experience and the correct guidance. So this group will react strongly to protect the status quo, and unfortunately this can ruffle feathers if not done with sympathy. As I said earlier I would not have a problem with someone correcting me and giving a reason why my info could be wrongly interpreted, since this is something a Newbie will benefit from simply by both sides being presented and discussed openly. But all too often it can become a Butt out- you don't know what you are talking about coz U R T2, and those viewing are none the wiser from that type of exchange.

Although I am T2, I keep an eye open on T1 related topics and research, so I am not entirely ignorant or unsympathetic to those special needs and difficulties. There are IDPWD here who report success in following an LC diet, and it makes sense to me that if someone is bolussing for carbs, and adjusting their dose accordingly. then if they can reduce their carb intake, then they can probably reduce their insulin dose too, and this may lead to improved control. The problem comes when the carbs drop below the basal level, and this is where guidance may be advised. So, yes I do believe that some LC discussion is appropriate in a T1D thread and has a place for consideration and deliberation. A Low carb type of diet may unlock a door to remission FOR ME, but not for an ID person. But improving control is applicable for both of us.

I came late to a thread recently that seemed to me to be positive and supportive, and I did not see any fractious discourse, or evidence of editing or Moderator intervention. which is now being claimed, so I was upset that once again the Moderators were enforcing censorship IMO unecessarily. As I have in the past commented, it will help if Moderators openly document in the thread when action has been necessary (a) so we are aware of problems developing, and (b) those causing problems are aware that we are all watching.

Another suggestion I have is that when a thread is opened then the OP can switch on a flag to indicate their preferred bias for responses e.g. T1 or T2 or n/a, and that every subsequent posting shows this choice when it is displayed regardless of how we enter the thread. The flag should be a grandfather . grandson flag in that a response carries forward the flag from the post being responded to, so that in the event of a crossfeed between topics, then each thread will perpetuate the original bias choice.

I have not read other responses from this thread but I am aware that many have also expressed positive thoughts, which I thank you for. I hope that this thread will develop so that we can find ways of resolving the conflicts that unfortunately crop up occasionally, to better effect. I will be back, but I have other sh**t to deal with first.
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
I obviously just missed something but I haven't seen anything on here that would make someone want to leave.....

would need to be quite significant I would think...
Hi. Equally I haven't seen anything recently that was controversial so what have I missed? I've been on this forum for more years than I care to remember and have seen it's comings and goings and a few years back there were fairly frequent 'strong' arguments with people being banned and so on. It's much calmer these days but just as good in the sense that it embraces the needs of newbies thru oldies like me. I note that @Oldvatr has just posted again and I agree that an LC discussion has it's place in the T1 forum as LC can help both T1 and T2 perhaps in different ways. It has been mentioned many times on these forums in the past that being ID with LC can help reduce BS swings and also weight gain. The BS thing is basic science and the weight thing depends on your metabolism etc. I LC together with my ID but I don't go very LC as I don't need to but that's my choice. So, we need the many inputs this forum receives and to be polite in responding. So, good luck @Oldvatr and may be see you on that other forum.
 

Mr_Pot

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,573
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Much of the recent offence and misunderstanding has been due to advice not applicable to the particular diagnosis or situation of the OP. I am sure established members of the forum know to be careful about this but some recent threads have been a valuable reminder.

Newcomers may not appreciate that the advice and experiences related in the forum need to be specific to their needs before they act on them. As an extreme example, a newly diagnosed person will not want to be trying to achieve a ketogenic diet or have extended periods of fasting when just starting with Insulin.

I suggest it would be useful to add a paragraph about caution in the use of the forum to the introductory advice provided by Daisy1, perhaps something along these lines…

New users should note that the forum encompasses all types of diabetes, levels of experience with diabetes, and strategies for controlling diabetes, including different medications and none. Advice given and observations related in the forum may be specific to a particular case and may not be relevant to everyone. Reading and asking questions in the correct sub-forum, and including diabetes type and medication details with a question, is more likely to result in appropriate advice.
 

dancer

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,360
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
On reading a farewell thread, I started reading one reply and thought, "Oh, oh, the OP isn't going to like that!". I continued reading and found that it wasn't as bad as I'd thought. In fact I regarded it as an apology. Unfortunately, offence was taken.

We must all try to remember that others can get upset at what we might regard as the slightest thing. We don't know what's going on in their lives. I regard myself as sensitive (sometimes too sensitive) but know that I have upset some people socially. These things happen. All we can do is try to be more careful in what we say, and hope we don't appear aggressive in any way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TIANDB

ringi

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,365
Type of diabetes
Type 2
One issue is that I consider each thread should be standalone, as most readers will be coming from Google. Therefore information about the person on other threads should not be used when writing responses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MargaretR

Kentoldlady1

Well-Known Member
Messages
733
Type of diabetes
Type 2
One issue is that I consider each thread should be standalone, as most readers will be coming from Google. Therefore information about the person on other threads should not be used when writing responses.

But sometimes it is because some posters know info about the op from other posts that targeted advice can be offered and badly targeted advice picked up. The only way to avoid that is to insist that all new posters put thier meds, diet etc in thier signature, which I dont see on my phone. Its not that I disagree with your idea, just that it relies on the op, often a confused newbie (like me jus a few weeks ago) does not give out al the info needed.
 

Grateful

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,398
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I am following this discussion with interest.

At times I have been guilty of exactly the behavior that is being criticized. To start with, it was because I was a newbie and did not yet know enough about T1 (I am T2) or the more advanced types of T2. More recently, the main reason was when I clicked on items in the "New Post" list on the forum home page. This zips you to a sub-forum and, if one is not careful, one can fail to notice that a thread has been started by a T1 rather than a T2 (for example).

I hope that I am now being more careful. In particular, I now pay close attention to the type of diabetes listed underneath a person's avatar, and to the meds (or insulin) that they are taking. If that information is missing, I tend to ask for it before saying too much.

I don't know whether the "New Posts" thing could be improved to make these out-of-context postings less likely. Ultimately it is the responsibility of each member to ascertain the individual facts before posting inappopriate advice blithely. Mea Culpa for the past, and a firm conviction to Do Better.

(None of the above will stop me from continuing to evangelize for the low-carb route when it makes sense to at least try it.)
 
Last edited:

Kentoldlady1

Well-Known Member
Messages
733
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Forums are odd places. We do not know the people we share our lives with, but get upset over a simple sentence that can often be read in a way that was not intended by the writer.

I try and not upset anyone. But I know that I have done that recently. It was not my intention but it happened anyway. However, I can choose to be upset by something said on a forum or I can choose to ignore it. Mostly, I choose to ignore it. I am quite capable of reading any advice given on here ( or any where else) and deciding to use it or not. If I feel strongly about a statement I will challenge it. But just feeling offended seems to me to be a bit pointless. This is a forum run by a for profit company and populated by ordinary people with diabetes. I knew that when I joined but maybe some sort of warning should be sent when joining that none of us can give individual medical advice.

We are all adults. If you dont like the advice given, dont use it.
If you disagree with any statement, say so and say why.
If someone is intentionally rude that is unacceptable and should be reported.
Nobody should feel that they are unwelcome or should leave just because they disagree with someone.
Obey the forum.rules.

On the issue of insulin users. I dont post on these threads at all, unless its just to give general advice ( eg, keep a diary) or give a virtual hug. I dont know much about insulin, and what I did know is 15 years out of date. So will let insulin users handle that and from I see the advice is pretty good.

To the op. Please dont be gone too long. I hope your wife is not too poorly and you will soon be able to come back. I always found your posts useful and thoughtful and I thank you for that.x
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I am following this discussion with interest.

At times I have been guilty of exactly the behavior that is being criticized. To start with, it was because I was a newbie and did not yet know enough about T1 (I am T2) or the more advanced types of T2. More recently, the main reason was when I clicked on items in the "New Post" list on the forum home page. This zips you to a sub-forum and, if one is not careful, one can fail to notice that a thread has been started by a T1 rather than a T2 (for example).

I hope that I am now being more careful. In particular, I now pay close attention to the type of diabetes listed underneath a person's avatar, and to the meds (or insulin) that they are taking. If that information is missing, I tend to ask for it before saying too much.

I don't know wether the "New Posts" thing could be improved to make these out-of-context postings less likely. Ultimately it is the responsibility of each member to ascertain the individual facts before posting inappopriate advice blithely. Mea Culpa for the past, and a firm conviction to Do Better.

(None of the above will stop me from continuing to evangelize for the low-carb route when it makes sense to at least try it.)
Thank you for being so frank in this reply. Sometimes the info regarding meds for an OP is buried deep within a thread and even clicking on their avtar to view their profile may not give this info. It is a problem, but many here keep this info to themselves as a privacy issue which we need to respect.

In anwer to @ringi then I feel that if someone has previously discussed an item of info, and where the new poster feels that the info is relevant and pertinent to the current discussion, then it should be ok to add this info to a current thread. It should be annotated that the info is second hand from <xxx> and copied.

Members should be careful not to include info that was obtained from a pm or from personal knowledge that the source did not provide in the forum itself (unless permission has been given for such info to be divulged). Again it is a question of privacy.

We must also be careful when pasting in info lifted from external sources lest we contravene copyright law.
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Forums are odd places. We do not know the people we share our lives with, but get upset over a simple sentence that can often be read in a way that was not intended by the writer.

I try and not upset anyone. But I know that I have done that recently. It was not my intention but it happened anyway. However, I can choose to be upset by something said on a forum or I can choose to ignore it. Mostly, I choose to ignore it. I am quite capable of reading any advice given on here ( or any where else) and deciding to use it or not. If I feel strongly about a statement I will challenge it. But just feeling offended seems to me to be a bit pointless. This is a forum run by a for profit company and populated by ordinary people with diabetes. I knew that when I joined but maybe some sort of warning should be sent when joining that none of us can give individual medical advice.

We are all adults. If you dont like the advice given, dont use it.
If you disagree with any statement, say so and say why.
If someone is intentionally rude that is unacceptable and should be reported.
Nobody should feel that they are unwelcome or should leave just because they disagree with someone.
Obey the forum.rules.

On the issue of insulin users. I dont post on these threads at all, unless its just to give general advice ( eg, keep a diary) or give a virtual hug. I dont know much about insulin, and what I did know is 15 years out of date. So will let insulin users handle that and from I see the advice is pretty good.

To the op. Please dont be gone too long. I hope your wife is not too poorly and you will soon be able to come back. I always found your posts useful and thoughtful and I thank you for that.x
Thank you for your wishes for my wife.

Whilst there is indeed a commercial company in overall ownership of this forum, I believe that the forum itself is run on a not for profit basis, and relies largely on donors and sponsors.

<<< This Website is operated by DIABETES DIGITAL MEDIA LIMITED (“We”, “Us”, “Our”). We are registered in England and Wales under company number 07975193 and our registered office is at Technology House, Sir William Lyons Road, University of Warwick Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7EZ.>>>

According to wikipedia

Diabetes.co.uk's business model focuses on recruiting for clinical trials and advertising.

It is important when looking for this type of info, that this site is www.diabetes.co.uk, whereas there is another site that is found on www.diabetes.org but who call themselves Diabetes UK (DUK). This latter organisation also has a forum, but it is funded from corporate sponsors and is reliant on commercial funding. The site here is known as DCUK and is totally seperate,
 
  • Like
Reactions: bulkbiker