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Ketoacidosis or Ketosis?

slunnon

Member
Messages
15
Location
Southern England
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Evening everyone, just wondered if anyone knew how to tell the difference between the two.

I've just tested my ketones with ketostix an hour ago and it reads 8 m/mol. Is this dangerous?

I'm on my 5th day of the Ketogenic diet. Blood sugars have been no higher than 11 m/mol this evening, and I woke up at 6 m/mol. I've been feeling run down these past few days (abdominal pain, fatigue, no appetite, light thirst) but I put these down to being on my period and having a cold.

How do I know if it's nutritional KETOSIS or KETOACIDOSIS?

Thank you!
 

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Evening everyone, just wondered if anyone knew how to tell the difference between the two.

I've just tested my ketones with ketostix an hour ago and it reads 8 m/mol. Is this dangerous?

I'm on my 5th day of the Ketogenic diet. Blood sugars have been no higher than 11 m/mol this evening, and I woke up at 6 m/mol. I've been feeling run down these past few days (abdominal pain, fatigue, no appetite, light thirst) but I put these down to being on my period and having a cold.

How do I know if it's nutritional KETOSIS or KETOACIDOSIS?

Thank you!

Hi Slunnon - I'm not T1, but as I understand it, ketones, but bloods aren't a concern. I think the number talked about is 13, but I'll tag my colleague, @Juicyj who is T1 and better informed that me in these things.

I hope you're feeling better soon.
 
Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs when there isn't enough insulin to allow glucose to enter cells. In an attempt to produce energy in the absence of glucose the body ultimately produces "ketone bodies" from fat cells. So DKA's hallmark is the presence of both glucose and ketones in the urine, and metabolic acidosis in the body because the process that results from no insulin produces acid. Serum bicarbonate is low, there's the usual respiratory compensation (you breathe faster to blow off CO2 which brings the pH up). So the answer is: if your glucose is essentially normal and you're taking your insulin it's ketosis. I know the ketogenic diet is all the rage these days for some reason. I have yet to understand the reason but it must have something to do with losing weight. I'm not that smart I guess.
 
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8 pretty high. i would watch it very carefully. as you say your feeling odd maybe raise a concern with your doctor.
 
Diabetic ketoacidosis occurs when there isn't enough insulin to allow glucose to enter cells. In an attempt to produce energy in the absence of glucose the body ultimately produces "ketone bodies" from fat cells. So DKA's hallmark is the presence of both glucose and ketones in the urine, and metabolic acidosis in the body because the process that results from no insulin produces acid. Serum bicarbonate is low, there's the usual respiratory compensation (you breathe faster to blow off CO2 which brings the pH up). So the answer is: if your glucose is essentially normal and you're taking your insulin it's ketosis. I know the ketogenic diet is all the rage these days for some reason. I have yet to understand the reason but it must have something to do with losing weight. I'm not that smart I guess.

Thank you for explaining everything! If you have time I would definitely read up on the benefits of the Keto Diet / Low Carb High Fat for Type 1s. Dr Bernstein does a great book called 'The Diabetes Diet'. Thanks again!
 
being up near 11 and that level it could be the start of something.
 
Remind me to not go on this diet. Somehow I have the feeling that calling 111 there isn't because you found you have a winning lottery ticket lol. When you call that do you start hearing sirens next?
 
dumb question why are you on this diet

Not dumb at all! ☺️ I'm at a healthy weight so not doing it to lose weight. I've been struggling with my blood sugars for a while now, since Christmas really. I have a ridiculously sweet tooth - I couldn't go a day without eating chocolate or sweets (think creme eggs, chocolate bars, desserts etc). I tried cutting down but it made me want them even more, leading to binging on lots of sweet stuff at once - resulting in even higher bloods.

They have never been super high, I've had Type 1 for 4 years now and my HbA1c has always been 65 m/mol or higher, despite watching what I ate, increasing my insulin, exercising more, keeping a food diary, keeping a blood sugar diary etc. I'd really like to achieve the 59 m/mol guideline, so I began to research ways to help me achieve this.

I came across Dr Bernstein's book 'The Diabetes Diet', in which he suggests that all Type 1 Diabetics follow a low carb diet plan - no more than 30g carbs a day. This is very similar to the Keto Diet, which is slightly higher in fat. There's also a couple of threads on Keto on here, as to why this way of eating could be more beneficial to us Type 1s).

As 30g is a lot lower than what I usually eat I am gradually reducing my carb intake (my intake is 50g carb currently).

Since starting on Sunday my sugars have drastically improved (despite today's blips). I have been waking at 5 m/mol and I have suffered no hypos or hypers (excluding today). What I didn't realise is that you MUST commit to the low carb lifestyle, cheat meals of high amounts of carbs are not recommended.

I didn't realise this, so after finding out I got a 1st in my module at University, I subsequently bought a dominos pizza with cookies and ice cream and ate them last night as a treat. I woke up feeling AWFUL, like someone had pushed sandpaper through my throat. My sugars have been higher today, which is what pushed me to test my ketones. Fingers crossed it's ketosis instead of ketoacidiosis. I definitely don't feel as bad as I did when I was diagnosed and in ketoacidiosis, so I am pretty sure isn't not that.

My typical day starts with an omelette, or eggs, bacon and avocado. I haven't been too hungry at lunch but I try and have a tuna and cucumber salad with halloumi or mozzarella. It's important that you eat enough good fats, as this is now your main source of energy. For dinner my favourite at the moment is a bunless cheeseburger with salad.

I haven't been hungry at all really and my sweet cravings are gone. I used to find dark chocolate really bitter and now it tastes deliciously sweet. As I haven't been hypoing and my bloods haven't been constantly going up and down, my mood has improved a lot and I'm not feeling as tired. I do have a cold at the moment and it is my time of the month so I have been feeling more run down than usual, but I definitely feel better than I usually do.

Anyway I hope this helped explain things a bit. It took me a good few days to read up on the benefits of Keto. I'll try and find the link to the YouTube video that a Diabetes.co.uk rep linked in another thread
 
Not dumb at all! ☺️ I'm at a healthy weight so not doing it to lose weight. I've been struggling with my blood sugars for a while now, since Christmas really. I have a ridiculously sweet tooth - I couldn't go a day without eating chocolate or sweets (think creme eggs, chocolate bars, desserts etc). I tried cutting down but it made me want them even more, leading to binging on lots of sweet stuff at once - resulting in even higher bloods.

They have never been super high, I've had Type 1 for 4 years now and my HbA1c has always been 65 m/mol or higher, despite watching what I ate, increasing my insulin, exercising more, keeping a food diary, keeping a blood sugar diary etc. I'd really like to achieve the 59 m/mol guideline, so I began to research ways to help me achieve this.

I came across Dr Bernstein's book 'The Diabetes Diet', in which he suggests that all Type 1 Diabetics follow a low carb diet plan - no more than 30g carbs a day. This is very similar to the Keto Diet, which is slightly higher in fat. There's also a couple of threads on Keto on here, as to why this way of eating could be more beneficial to us Type 1s).

As 30g is a lot lower than what I usually eat I am gradually reducing my carb intake (my intake is 50g carb currently).

Since starting on Sunday my sugars have drastically improved (despite today's blips). I have been waking at 5 m/mol and I have suffered no hypos or hypers (excluding today). What I didn't realise is that you MUST commit to the low carb lifestyle, cheat meals of high amounts of carbs are not recommended.

I didn't realise this, so after finding out I got a 1st in my module at University, I subsequently bought a dominos pizza with cookies and ice cream and ate them last night as a treat. I woke up feeling AWFUL, like someone had pushed sandpaper through my throat. My sugars have been higher today, which is what pushed me to test my ketones. Fingers crossed it's ketosis instead of ketoacidiosis. I definitely don't feel as bad as I did when I was diagnosed and in ketoacidiosis, so I am pretty sure isn't not that.

My typical day starts with an omelette, or eggs, bacon and avocado. I haven't been too hungry at lunch but I try and have a tuna and cucumber salad with halloumi or mozzarella. It's important that you eat enough good fats, as this is now your main source of energy. For dinner my favourite at the moment is a bunless cheeseburger with salad.

I haven't been hungry at all really and my sweet cravings are gone. I used to find dark chocolate really bitter and now it tastes deliciously sweet. As I haven't been hypoing and my bloods haven't been constantly going up and down, my mood has improved a lot and I'm not feeling as tired. I do have a cold at the moment and it is my time of the month so I have been feeling more run down than usual, but I definitely feel better than I usually do.

Anyway I hope this helped explain things a bit. It took me a good few days to read up on the benefits of Keto. I'll try and find the link to the YouTube video that a Diabetes.co.uk rep linked in another thread

Found it! ☺️

 
Sounds like you have this pretty sorted.. although I would recommend getting a meter which measures blood ketones as the pee strips are notoriously inaccurate (at least that's what most keto'ers say). There are quite a few threads about Type 1's following a keto way of eating.
 
Sounds like you have this pretty sorted.. although I would recommend getting a meter which measures blood ketones as the pee strips are notoriously inaccurate (at least that's what most keto'ers say). There are quite a few threads about Type 1's following a keto way of eating.

That's a good idea, thank you! Just checked the best before date on the pot and it says October 2017 *slaps forehead* definitely going to invest in one!
 
That's a good idea, thank you! Just checked the best before date on the pot and it says October 2017 *slaps forehead* definitely going to invest in one!

You may be able to ask for one from the GP or your DSN. I have a Freestyle one that I was given at diagnosis and I have a small amount of strips on my repeat prescription for it if I need them.
 
You may be able to ask for one from the GP or your DSN. I have a Freestyle one that I was given at diagnosis and I have a small amount of strips on my repeat prescription for it if I need them.

Oh brilliant thanks for the tip!

I might have a dig around at home and see if I can find any of my meters from diagnosis to see if they are any good for ketone reading (I remember my nurse handing me about 3 different meters!)
 
If you've recently eaten dominos pizza, cookies and ice cream you are highly unlikely to be in nutritional ketosis and your ketones are likely to be the BAD ketones requiring correction with insulin to avoid DKA.
 
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