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Ketoacidosis or Ketosis?

if its from diet i would up your carbs somewhat 30 is low. try 50-100 and see. obviously out of date strips are not to be trusted however they should not be that out by that much. i cant tell you not to eat the chocky stuff as ive had some serious munching chocolate events daily since christmas. but at 11 you need to stop, my porking has raised my bg by a unit. my lchf diet results at most about 2 in the ketones. i really do think a trip to your doctor is worth it. over 3 normally should be an urgent issue. more so if youreating sugar.
 
Keep in mind the OP is Type 1.

There are so many benefits to Keto, the main one of course is stable blood sugars, cutting down on the injections needed, lower Basal rates, skin feels and looks better, energy levels are just fine and if you need to lose weight, you can quite easily.
This is a personal experience of going keto for a couple of weeks now, can't see myself every going back to consecutive days of carbs over 30g, currently on about 10-15g max.

Good luck with everything, seems like you are being proactive.
 
Ketones are dangerous if your BG levels are running at 15mmol/l + additionally if you are suffering with shallow breathing, dehydration, blurry eyes, vomiting, and generally feeling very unwell and are running high ketone levels then you need to visit A&E urgently. If you are following a keto diet and producing ketones but your BG levels are running below 15mmol/l and are not presenting any of the symptoms described then it's best to drink plenty of water and just keep a close eye on both BG and ketone levels. It's when there is a lack of insulin, high ketones and uncontrolled BG levels that you need urgent assistance.
 
paulus1 said:
if its from diet i would up your carbs somewhat 30 is low. try 50-100 and see. obviously out of date strips are not to be trusted however they should not be that out by that much. i cant tell you not to eat the chocky stuff as ive had some serious munching chocolate events daily since christmas. but at 11 you need to stop, my porking has raised my bg by a unit. my lchf diet results at most about 2 in the ketones. i really do think a trip to your doctor is worth it. over 3 normally should be an urgent issue. more so if youreating sugar.
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This is unhelpful advice - please note you are talking to a type 1 diabetic here, dietary advice is irrelevant.
 
not if they are on a lchf diet its not. they are eating 30 carbs a day so its very relevant as to why she may have ketones in her system. as a type 2 we well i did have acidosis so please dont imagine all type 2s dont know about it. im concerned because a level of 8 is much higher than you should get on that diet. hence i adviced her to see her doctor maybe that advice is wrong coming from a type 2. yes its normally over 14bg before you need to worry but everyone is unique. maybe someone needs to read the full thread
 
paulus1 said:
not if they are on a lchf diet its not. they are eating 30 carbs a day so its very relevant as to why she may have ketones in her system. as a type 2 we well i did have acidosis so please dont imagine all type 2s dont know about it. im concerned because a level of 8 is much higher than you should get on that diet. hence i adviced her to see her doctor maybe that advice is wrong coming from a type 2. yes its normally over 14bg before you need to worry but everyone is unique. maybe someone needs to read the full thread
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She doesn't have a problem with having ketones though, she's just wondering if her feeling a little unwell gives her any reason to worry, and at 8mmol is not a reason to worry with ketones on a keto diet). As you say, everyone is unique, so having a bg of 8mmol can come from adrenaline, hormones and so on.
 
she has a ketone level of 8 with a bg of upto 11. I've just tested my ketones with ketostix an hour ago and it reads 8 m/mol
 
paulus1 said:
not if they are on a lchf diet its not. they are eating 30 carbs a day so its very relevant as to why she may have ketones in her system. as a type 2 we well i did have acidosis so please dont imagine all type 2s dont know about it. im concerned because a level of 8 is much higher than you should get on that diet. hence i adviced her to see her doctor maybe that advice is wrong coming from a type 2. yes its normally over 14bg before you need to worry but everyone is unique. maybe someone needs to read the full thread
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Paulus a level of 8 ketones or more for a type 1 diabetic is dangerous if BG levels are 15mmol/l+ and the symptoms I described above are present, as the OP does not have high BG levels then simply monitoring and also drinking plenty of fluids is the priority.
 
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Ketonuria is a sign that your body is using an alternative energy source. A sign of increased fat metabolism and decreased carbohydrate metabolism. That's why it's a sign of DKA: no insulin=no glucose used as energy source=fats break down to ketone bodies in blood and spill into urine. If unchecked over time person checks out and dies. So if you're spilling ketones because of a "ketogenic diet" and are taking enough insulin (no DKA) it's still using an alternative energy source (fat) because that's all you have to use. I guess it's OK if your goal is weight loss. Sort of poor man's liposuction right? But if you don't need to lose weight then you're probably gonna pay for it eventually. How I can't tell you but spilling ketones constantly just doesn't make sense if you don't have to. There's a reason for everything.
 
TheBigNewt said:
How I can't tell you but spilling ketones constantly just doesn't make sense if you don't have to.
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That's why the body stops spilling them after a while and instead uses them for fuel. Hence why pee sticks aren't so great for measuring levels of ketones. Keto diets are usually followed by Type 1's to reduce insulin requirements and thus avoid risks of hypo's. I would have thought you as a doctor should know about that.
 
at most the lchf should produce under 5. the op is not feeling well so those 2 things together warrent her seeing her doctor. most likely its nothing but we cant say for certin and thats why i said she needs to get checked out. more so has she has been eating carb rich foods and has only been on the diet a few days. so the diet related ketones should be pretty low.
 
bulkbiker said:
That's why the body stops spilling them after a while and instead uses them for fuel. Hence why pee sticks aren't so great for measuring levels of ketones. Keto diets are usually followed by Type 1's to reduce insulin requirements and thus avoid risks of hypo's. I would have thought you as a doctor should know about that.
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I don't treat diabetes, I just have it. I treat heart disease. We don't have any Type 1's at the VA, they can't get into the military and if they get it while they're in they get medicaled out. I never heard of the "ketogenic diet" until this forum. It doesn't make a lot of medical sense to me unless you want to lose a bunch of weight as a Type 2. And if you get ketones in your urine they have gone through your nephrons/kidneys from your blood stream. I'm not convinced that's a good think long term.
 
catapillar said:
If you've recently eaten dominos pizza, cookies and ice cream you are highly unlikely to be in nutritional ketosis and your ketones are likely to be the BAD ketones requiring correction with insulin to avoid DKA.
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I thought so too! However, I tested my ketones again 3 hours after I posted this thread and they had gone down to 0.5 m/mols. I also paid my nurse a visit in the morning to be doubly certain, and she informed me that blood glucose readings would have to be above 16 m/mols for a number of hours, along with high ketone levels, to suggest ketoacidiosis.

As I only had one high reading of 11 m/mols after eating the pizza (which I immediately gave extra insulin for), and the fact that all of yesterday my readings were between 5 and 6 m/mols, I think it's safe to say I'm not in ketoacidiosis.

Still, I definitely won't celebrate with dominos anymore that's for sure! :)
 
TheBigNewt said:
I don't treat diabetes, I just have it. I treat heart disease. We don't have any Type 1's at the VA, they can't get into the military and if they get it while they're in they get medicaled out. I never heard of the "ketogenic diet" until this forum. It doesn't make a lot of medical sense to me unless you want to lose a bunch of weight as a Type 2. And if you get ketones in your urine they have gone through your nephrons/kidneys from your blood stream. I'm not convinced that's a good think long term.
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Is having normal blood sugars not reason enough to give it a go? It has cut down hypos, hypers and amount of insulin I have needed. My energy levels have been fine, i'm sure my cholesterol is going to show up better and measuring my heart rate, i'm definitely getting fitter. My mood has also improved.

Ketogenic diet has been around a long time, it's not really a phase that people go through. It's also not really a "diet" in terms of losing weight, unless you want to, in which it helps with that by burning fat rather than sugar. You can easily maintain, and gain weight in fact, while eating keto.

It's not for everyone, and I certainly would never tell anyone what they should or should not eat, but saying it doesn't make a lot of medical sense, when researchers who have tried and tested the way of eating such as Dr Rhonda Patrick etc etc, seems like it's just dismissive.

By the way, it's a disgrace that Type 1's are excluded from the military.
 
TheBigNewt said:
I don't treat diabetes, I just have it. I treat heart disease. We don't have any Type 1's at the VA, they can't get into the military and if they get it while they're in they get medicaled out. I never heard of the "ketogenic diet" until this forum. It doesn't make a lot of medical sense to me unless you want to lose a bunch of weight as a Type 2. And if you get ketones in your urine they have gone through your nephrons/kidneys from your blood stream. I'm not convinced that's a good think long term.
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TheBigNewt - The following video could be worth a watch. The presenter is a long standing T1 and a UK General Practitioner doctor who is a keen middle/long distance runner.

He is on MDI and achieves spectacularly flat lines on his CGM. I did see them with my own eyes, so it obviously works for him.

His contact details and website address is are the screen right at the start of the video should you feel the desire to expand your knowledge.


I'm not trying to persuade you to change how you manage your own diabetes, you can decide that for yourself, but like all things Diabetes, there's usually more than one way to achieve a given objective.
 
JoeT1 said:
By the way, it's a disgrace that Type 1's are excluded from the military.
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Military personnel have to be potentially combat ready so they can't be on insulin and carry meters to check sugars. I'm sure it's the same in the UK. There are all kinds of diets out there, the ketone spilling one is just one of many.
 
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