DESMOND COURSE 'T2D CAN'T EVER BE REVERSED'

[Debandez]

I wasn't expecting to get much out of my DESMOND course but i actually learned quite a bit and enjoyed it. But one thing that was said was that T2D can't EVER be reversed. They went further than that by saying the media had mistaken remission for reversal. I gave an example of my sister who following a gastric bypass operation REVERSED her T2D. She can basically eat what she wants. Non diabetic results. So it's made me wonder of the people on here that have 'reversed' their T2D are they in remission or actually completely reversed? I wasn't going to argue in the DESMOND course! There were a few things I didn't agree with. Another one being the discussion on fats and which are good and bad for you. They certainly don't advocate LCHF!!! The 3 ladies running the course were non diabetic. The book they were using was years old (they called it their bible and said it was only based on facts).

 

[Goonergal]

I tend to think of being well controlled rather than ‘in remission’ or ‘reversed’. There is no doubt in my mind that returning to old ways of eating, or even to a more restrained consumption of high carb foods would quickly undo all the progress made over the past 15 months or so as developing type 2 diabetes in the first place indicates an intolerance of carbs.

For me focusing on remission or reversal could create a mindset which regards carbs as some kind of holy grail. For me the low carb way of life brings so many other health benefits - as well as being highly enjoyable - and is therefore very sustainable.

 

[Mike d]

Been hammered to death here. For the time being, it is permanent, controlled, reversed as far as numbers go, but over the BS threshold again, you're back to the start. Simple reality

 

[Guzzler]

The bible is 2000 years old and hardly based on fact. Nuff said.

 

[Rachox]

I agree I don’t think I’m cured just because my bloods show non diabetic numbers. Like Goonergal both myself and my GP call myself very well controlled. I chose “in Remission” for my avatar as I feel it’s the closest to my current situation that’s available here. Remission according to the dictionary is a temporary thing, I keep that quote in my signature as a reminder to myself and others that I could undo my good work by reverting to eating high carbs again.

 

[JohnEGreen]

The bible is 2000 years old and hardly based on fact. Nuff said.

I think you will find more facts in the bible than you would in the Desmond handbook.

 

[Debandez]

I tend to think of being well controlled rather than ‘in remission’ or ‘reversed’. There is no doubt in my mind that returning to old ways of eating, or even to a more restrained consumption of high carb foods would quickly undo all the progress made over the past 15 months or so as developing type 2 diabetes in the first place indicates an intolerance of carbs.

For me focusing on remission or reversal could create a mindset which regards carbs as some kind of holy grail. For me the low carb way of life brings so many other health benefits - as well as being highly enjoyable - and is therefore very sustainable.

I agree completely and that's me too. I was just wondering if there is a link on this forum to a thread which confirms those who have reversed and woyld be able to eat high carbs without raised BS. I know anyone who has had it would alwats be vulnerable to get it again but I am just curious. Thanks for your reply

 

[Debandez]

I agree I don’t think I’m cured just because my bloods show non diabetic numbers. Like Goonergal both myself and my GP call myself very well controlled. I chose “in Remission” for my avatar as I feel it’s the closest to my current situation that’s available here. Remission according to the dictionary is a temporary thing, I keep that quote in my signature as a reminder to myself and others that I could undo my good work by reverting to eating high carbs again.

Thanks rachox. Im just wondering if there is a thread showing tbose who had actually reversed it like my sister

 

[JohnEGreen]

To be honest I class my self as in remission, I don't really know what reversed in this context actually means if those who class them selves as having reversed their diabetes think of them selves as cured why not just say cured.

Or is it just a matter of semantics and I'm been somewhat obtuse.

 

[rab5]

I think you will find more facts in the bible than you would in the Desmond handbook.

I think they are both factless lol

 

[Bluetit1802]

When GP's enter stuff on our computer medical records, they don't just make things up, there is a list of codes they must use, for which there are guidelines. There are two codes for cases where "diabetes has gone away". One translates as "diabetes resolved", the other as "diabetes in remission" . The diabetes resolved one is for specific cases such as after bariatric surgery, or where it was initially caused by medication such as steroids and the person is no longer on steroids. The diabetes in remission is for those that no longer have diabetic HbA1cs , are tightly controlled without meds, but are still very much at risk.

 

[Resurgam]

It is why I coined the 'membership of the smug club' description - I know I can eat more carbs than when diagnosed, but I decline to do so on a regular basis because it makes me gain weight, feel lethargic, alters my mental state and it would eventually cause my BG levels to start to climb again.
What is called 'eating normally' these days is simply not natural, nor healthy nor is it promoting of well being and I think it should be discouraged for everyone, not just diabetics

 

[JohnEGreen]

I think they are both factless lol

Then your thoughts are in error and that is a fact LoL

 

[Debandez]

When GP's enter stuff on our computer medical records, they don't just make things up, there is a list of codes they must use, for which there are guidelines. There are two codes for cases where "diabetes has gone away". One translates as "diabetes resolved", the other as "diabetes in remission" . The diabetes resolved one is for specific cases such as after bariatric surgery, or where it was initially caused by medication such as steroids and the person is no longer on steroids. The diabetes in remission is for those that no longer have diabetic HbA1cs , are tightly controlled without meds, but are still very much at risk.

Thank you

 

[Debandez]

I've just watched professor Roy Taylor's video on how to reverse diabetes. And I'm thinking of the Newcastle study. I thinking the people involved haven't reversed it but are in remission and well controlled.

 

[Diakat]

NIH has a review on bariatric surgery and t2 (like your sister) this states 57-97% entered remission depending on surgery type and definition of remission.
So not sure that is reversal.

Also seem to recall Scandinavian numbers that have 5 years as the "cured" time following surgery suggesting diabetes returned. Can't find a link though.

 

[There is no Spoon]

Im just wondering if there is a thread showing tbose who had actually reversed it like my sister

Hi Deb,
I used the term reversed. I don't for one second think I am cured. "Reversed" is the term Dr's use.
I always explain it to anyone who wants to listen, (and usually anyone who couldn't care less but to polite to tell me to stop harping on about it) It's like being an alcoholic just because you haven't had a drink for 10 years doesn't mean your not still an alcoholic.

That being said IF I was to go get a blood test at a new Dr's without them having access to my medical history they would tell me I am not diabetic.

Doesn't make it so.

 

[britishpub]

I don't know about "Reversed" but my results have certainly gone backwards

 

[Brunneria]

It is why I coined the 'membership of the smug club' description - I know I can eat more carbs than when diagnosed, but I decline to do so on a regular basis because it makes me gain weight, feel lethargic, alters my mental state and it would eventually cause my BG levels to start to climb again.
What is called 'eating normally' these days is simply not natural, nor healthy nor is it promoting of well being and I think it should be discouraged for everyone, not just diabetics

I rather dislike the use of the word 'smug' in the context.

To me, a smug person is someone who deserves to have the smugness wiped off their face as rapidly as possible. They are usually cocky gloaters, complacent and with a tinge of arrogance. The kind of person who says 'If I can do it, then anyone can' - usually without the slightest comprehension that other people have different bodies, different metabolisms and diffferent health challenges. The thought of there being a Club for these people is pretty unpleasant.

So smugness is not something I wish to emulate.

On the other hand, excellent control of blood glucose is aspirational to me.
So is being healthy, active and aware that not everyone gets to draw that long straw, no matter how much effort they put in.
Along with an understanding that the method to achieving that control varies hugely between us all.

 

[rab5]

Then your thoughts are in error and that is a fact LoL

I need to speak to the fairies at the bottom of my garden I will get back to you after my unicorn gets saddled lol