INSULIN RESISTANCE DUE TO HIGH FAT EATING ??

[Freema]

many doctors claim that most people become type 2 diabetics from far too many calories combined with far too little movement and both very high fat and sugar diet... and from some side-effects from medications.. it fits with my lifestyle before diagnosis, my depressions made me very sedentary and upgiving and it was too easy to order pizzaes and then along with that sugary drinks, and I did not eat less while almost stopped moving...

I was lucky to get my diagnosis in a period where my mind was more balanced than usual despite my more or less stoned way of living/being.
I got such a shock that I changed right away, and I was lucky to find this amazing site where people are active, helpful, and so informed and ready to help newcomers with specific information and a shoulder to cry at.

I got a bit manic from all these changes at one time and spammed every thread with my comments, ashamed of that now...

well wicki guess we are bound to forever count calories and twist our diet in a very narrow window of food styles... and yes to have to be sedentary takes diabetes to a very different kind of prisonlike situation.
I am afraid that even though I count calories I´d have to go much lower when wanting to lose weight than all the calculators tell me for my body size and height.

And then on top of that comes the problem with long-term banting on low levels of calories , that some people (probably even most ) do get a smaller brain size and also a crimping heart size from long time banting, and wouldn´t it be possible that also organs sized down from a long time adapting to too little food reserves ?
It seems a problem almost totally overlooked in the struggle some obese people do have to keep weight off that the body itself counteracts this kind of wanting to lose weight.
I even read somewhere that women seem to be able to slow metabolism down after high-intensity training/ exercise, which means they would not be naturally as good as speeding metabolism by exercising as do men.

Actually I think this all in all sound very plausible and also explains why a lot of women on an eternal fight for banting themselves do seem to have an almost impossible mission.. could be due to female hormones protecting the female from starvation death so she´ll stay put with her children in famine and fight being able to live from even less than usual levels of foods..

women with PCOS are also said to have to go around one third lower in calories before they are able to lose weight than women without this damaging condition, and this is a kind of riddle why this is, but maybe due to a much-raised insulin level all-time.. as if they didn´t already have too much to cope with already.
http://sciencenordic.com/weight-loss-does-not-prolong-lives-diabetes-patients
http://sciencenordic.com/researchers-rapid-weight-loss-best


Also, men seem to gain more weight after long time banting than they weighed before their extreme banting
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/102/4/807/4564599
https://www.twincities.com/2014/11/...innesota-starvation-experiment-changed-lives/


I´ll try to find links to all these claims, unfortunately, I have not kept links to all these claims which I have collected while trying to find information the last 2 years.

 

[Guzzler]

"Smaller brain" and "crimping heart size"? And I have to ask this, are you saying that the Banting diet is a calorie restricted diet?

 

[eggs11]

I totally understand what you are saying @Freema - it is hard to overcome doubts because it is still shouted from the rooftops to lower fat and eat complex carbs. I came across this great blog article today and it just says it all really well, I feel, about how the current guidelines for health are all wrong - this guy was eating a low fat plant based diet and still managed to get a heart attack, then managed a complete turn around by eating low carb - it is such a compelling read I think I need to print it out and pint it to my fridge! http://carmineleo.com/blog/food-serious-as-a-heart-attack/

 

[Freema]

I totally understand what you are saying @Freema - it is hard to overcome doubts because it is still shouted from the rooftops to lower fat and eat complex carbs. I came across this great blog article today and it just says it all really well, I feel, about how the current guidelines for health are all wrong - this guy was eating a low fat plant based diet and still managed to get a heart attack, then managed a complete turn around by eating low carb - it is such a compelling read I think I need to print it out and pint it to my fridge! http://carmineleo.com/blog/food-serious-as-a-heart-attack/

very interesting, I also ate very low fat before and high fiber carbs too and the leanest meat I could get.... crazy.. as an obedient citizen I ended up being obese and type 2 diabetic.. actually good to find one can eat some fat without having a bad conscious ... well but overeating and being sedentary was also a main part of it all. It is few that can cope with only eating 10 grams of carbs in a day like this author in your link

here is some new evidance that tells how fatburning seems to lower toxidity from sugar in our bodies ;http://sciencenordic.com/fat-metabolism-protects-body-against-toxins-sugar

 

[eggs11]

very interesting, I also ate very low fat before and high fiber carbs too and the leanest meat I could get.... crazy.. as an obedient citizen I ended up being obese and type 2 diabetic.. actually good to find one can eat some fat without having a bad conscious ... well but overeating and being sedentary was also a main part of it all. It is few that can cope with only eating 10 grams of carbs in a day like this author in your link

I agree that under 10g would be hard to do - although I know others on here do so happily it wouldn't work for me as the only meat I eat is fish, so I wouldn't be able to eat enough calories - I've found under 50g a day really easy though.

 

[kokhongw]

My main takeaway from Cyrus video is simply the undisputed confirmation that a ketogenic diet WILL flatline glucose.

Their contention is whether a flatline glucose is necessarily safe or healthy in the long term.

And that ketosis is a state of sickness?

Does those argument makes sense?

 

[ickihun]

We are all idiosyncratic, I suppose, even when there are generalisations. Without high fats I would be devoid of energy which would lead to even less activity and even more weight loss. It seems we are at opposite ends of the spectrum but then I have no Thyroid problem to add to the mix so I guess this makes a helluva difference.
I can say, though, hand on heart that since I started LCHF and cut out all vegetable oils including soy and soy products that there has been a drop in pain levels which has made mobility (comparatively speaking) easier.

I cannot have soya or soy as it interfers with my thyroid health. I'm even careful which veg to eat. I have had to increase broccoli as I'm iron deficient.

 

[Guzzler]

I cannot have soya or soy as it interfers with my thyroid health. I'm even careful which veg to eat. I have had to increase broccoli as I'm iron deficient.

Broccoli is a good all rounder, I find.

Edited to add. Maybe not for you but my youngest makes a mean cheese and broccoli soup. It's cheap, doesn't take too long to make and doesn't have loads of ingredients. It is a winner in our house.

 

[Freema]

"Smaller brain" and "crimping heart size"? And I have to ask this, are you saying that the Banting diet is a calorie restricted diet?

well yes I am thinking of long term consequences of banting time after time for years as do many women seem to do, I have only done this once , except from when I lived from glucose in veins more times when hospitalized and for 7 months when being pregnant with my only child..

as I have read it it seems to occur in women in the widespread calorie restricted banting types when they have been banting for years time and time again

 

[Guzzler]

well yes I am thinking of long term consequences of banting time after time for years as do many women seem to do, I have only done this once , except from when I lived from glucose in veins more times when hospitalized and for 7 months when being pregnant with my only child..

as I have read it it seems to occur in women in the widespread calorie restricted banting types when they have been banting for years time and time again

I'm sorry, Freema but are you talking about The Banting Diet that Prof. Tim Noakes recommends in S.Africa?
The Banting diet and LCHF differs only in nomenclature. I think you are speaking of the WW and SW type of calorie restricted diets? Even with these calorie restricted diets I have not heard that they cause the brain to shrink or the heart to creep.

 

[Julie27318]

HEY ALL i JUST FOUND THIS VIDEO , WHERE A MAN CLAIMS THAT THE THEORY THAT DIABETES IS CARB TOXICITY IS WRONG AND HE keeps ARGUMENTING WITH ONE EXAMPLE AFTER THE OTHER ...

PLEASE WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIS ARGUMENTS , CAN THEY ALL BE DEBUNKED ?

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Oh no hope this isn't true i'm on HFLC. So i could be making my insulin sensitivity worse? maybe i'll try Low carb and LOW fat too then!

 

[Freema]

I'm sorry, Freema but are you talking about The Banting Diet that Prof. Tim Noakes recommends in S.Africa?
The Banting diet and LCHF differs only in nomenclature. I think you are speaking of the WW and SW type of calorie restricted diets? Even with these calorie restricted diets I have not heard that they cause the brain to shrink or the heart to creep.

no I am not talking of these specific diets or banting on very low carb high fat , and also not of intermittent fasting. I know the results from these approaches have very fine outcomes. the banting I am referring to are the more widespread calorie restricted diets and various types of shorttime banting approaches that is common in the western population and not really with any science behind

 

[Freema]

Oh no hope this isn't true i'm on HFLC. So i could be making my insulin sensitivity worse? maybe i'll try Low carb and LOW fat too then!

I just wanted to hear peoples arguments against what what is claimed to be the truth that high fat can be causing higher insulin resistance, I am not really sure what is the true picture of what are healthy foods... don´t be scared there are so many different opinions and many are only opinions and not really have solid research and science behind the claims.

 

[Guzzler]

Oh no hope this isn't true i'm on HFLC. So i could be making my insulin sensitivity worse? maybe i'll try Low carb and LOW fat too then!

If you go low carb and low fat you will very quickly become hungry, weak and miserable. Beleive me, I've been there and it ain't no picnic.

 

[lindisfel]

Well know vegan activist ...and he has no eyebrows...!

He probably shaved them cos they meet in the middle. According to my old mother eye brows meeting in the middle was a sign you were born to meet a sticky end!

 

[tomtom 2]

Here is my take on the video,

A lot of the stuff he states is happening, by what I see on this forum i.e very good bg results on the lchf diets, especially the great fasting bg results posted every day on here.
Now whether this diet has long term bad issues I don't know, he states something about 5+ years for this.

I only have this one question have any of you guys that are on this diet been on it for over 5 years and seen any of the complications that he states.

 

[Mbaker]

Hi @Freema I watch as many Vegan / WFPB vidoes as I do LCHF / Keto / Paleo / IF. I would say the best videos on both sides are "attractive" and compelling.

Recently I have noticed that the strategy of the Plant Based critics has been to admit there are at least "short term" benefits of the low carb methodology. This is always accompanied with plausible (to the fair minded) arguments that say how dangerous and unproven in the long term low carb lifestyles are.

I respectfully disagree with the criticisms as I believe they are biased and not factual, or as in this video answers were provided for non - questions. For example "we" know the mechanism by which the brain is fed glucose, and as low carbers have no problem with the body making the glucose it needs (if Keto), and not ingestng many carbs to do this. And I am not interested in "challenging" what glucose rich food does to my body, as in general anyone who consumes carbs produces spikes, I have seen this so many times (for brevity I am not listing).

I am not interested in high carb. My research has evidence of populations who eschew high carb low fat and do extremely well, e.g. Maasai, Inuiit, Hadza, etc. When you watch docunmentaries like "The Magic Pill" you can see people like the Aboringes went from great health and slimness surviving off of bush tucker which was / is high in fat to a modern diet which has made over 50% of their population sick within a generation; when they test the "traidtional" diet (bush tucker), they revert back to better health markers.

By purposefully not separating bad vegetable fats / oils as used for chips, dougnuts etc, this makes one of the pillars used by low carb appear terrible (clever and misleading for the unsuspecting).

This type of video should reference all the claims, such as Keto eventually being a risk factor for diabetes?!

 

[Guzzler]

Hi @Freema I watch as many Vegan / WFPB vidoes as I do LCHF / Keto / Paleo / IF. I would say the best videos on both sides are "attractive" and compelling.

Recently I have noticed that the strategy of the Plant Based critics has been to admit there are at least "short term" benefits of the low carb methodology. This is always accompanied with plausible (to the fair minded) arguments that say how dangerous and unproven in the long term low carb lifestyles are.

I respectfully disagree with the criticisms as I believe they are biased and not factual, or as in this video answers were provided for non - questions. For example "we" know the mechanism by which the brain is fed glucose, and as low carbers have no problem with the body making the glucose it needs (if Keto), and not ingestng many carbs to do this. And I am not interested in "challenging" what glucose rich food does to my body, as in general anyone who consumes carbs produces spikes, I have seen this so many times (for brevity I am not listing).

I am not interested in high carb. My research has evidence of populations who eschew high carb low fat and do extremely well, e.g. Maasai, Inuiit, Hadza, etc. When you watch docunmentaries like "The Magic Bullet" you can see people like the Aboringes went from great health and slimness surviving off of bush tucker which was / is high in fat to a modern diet which has made over 50% of their population sick within a generation; when they test the "traidtional" diet (bush tucker), they revert back to better health markers.

By purposefully not separating bad vegetable fats / oils as used for chips, dougnuts etc, this makes one of the pillars used by low carb appear terrible (clever and misleading for the unsuspecting).

This type of video should reference all the claims, such as Keto eventually being a risk factor for diabetes?!

Shouldn't that be 'The Magic Pill'? I may have misremembered, though.

 

[Freema]

Hi @Freema I watch as many Vegan / WFPB vidoes as I do LCHF / Keto / Paleo / IF. I would say the best videos on both sides are "attractive" and compelling.

Recently I have noticed that the strategy of the Plant Based critics has been to admit there are at least "short term" benefits of the low carb methodology. This is always accompanied with plausible (to the fair minded) arguments that say how dangerous and unproven in the long term low carb lifestyles are.

I respectfully disagree with the criticisms as I believe they are biased and not factual, or as in this video answers were provided for non - questions. For example "we" know the mechanism by which the brain is fed glucose, and as low carbers have no problem with the body making the glucose it needs (if Keto), and not ingestng many carbs to do this. And I am not interested in "challenging" what glucose rich food does to my body, as in general anyone who consumes carbs produces spikes, I have seen this so many times (for brevity I am not listing).

I am not interested in high carb. My research has evidence of populations who eschew high carb low fat and do extremely well, e.g. Maasai, Inuiit, Hadza, etc. When you watch docunmentaries like "The Magic Bullet" you can see people like the Aboringes went from great health and slimness surviving off of bush tucker which was / is high in fat to a modern diet which has made over 50% of their population sick within a generation; when they test the "traidtional" diet (bush tucker), they revert back to better health markers.

By purposefully not separating bad vegetable fats / oils as used for chips, dougnuts etc, this makes one of the pillars used by low carb appear terrible (clever and misleading for the unsuspecting).

This type of video should reference all the claims, such as Keto eventually being a risk factor for diabetes?!

thank you dear for your fine answer, well yes it seems that low carb keto style also works for providing glucose to the brain as well.. in most people at least, there could be genetic differences form different parts of the world, in Greenland where most of the food was amimal and seafood mainly, they might have genes that provides a better convertion to keto production.

But now pressently there must be so many doing the keto-diet lifestyle on long term that is would be possible to do statistic on the keto diet from now on, it ought be put to start soon, but who will do this kind of long term statistic if not we or Diabetes.co.uk .. there is no money in the praise of very low carb diet for most companies niether food companies of medical companies

it is after all okay to wan´t a long time evaluation of a diet so drastically different form all that is praised form the different Health Authorities all over the world

 

[JohnEGreen]

Does those argument makes sense?

In a word No.