Diabetes2/treatment eloquently explained

[pollensa]

Hello, for all those out there I share Dr. Jason Fung video on diabetes 2 for those who may have questions unanswered, require more info to assist in anyway, that is eloquently explained in simple terms and puts many areas into perspective.

Hope this shared knowledge proves of some help in someway?

 

[ROSIE1988]

Hi. I have read and watched everything by Dr Fung and a book called Reverse your Diabetes by Dr David Cavan. Both contradict eachother so now I am feeling bamboozled. I thought I had understood it all after Dr Fung but now I am just half way through Dr Cavan’s book I am not sure at all and feel back to share one. Fung says no drugs as they are useless. Metformin etc . Cavan says some of them can be good. Am so lost dont know who or what to believe and am just stopping the Keto Diet as we found it horrendous. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[ROSIE1988]

Ps. Fung says exercise doesn’t make a difference really and Cavan says it does!? What on earth are we supposed to think and do. Both are highly respected but who do we believe and why?

 

[Nexus6]

I am with you on the confusion part, the more I read and research, the more I find opinions and papers in opposition to each other. I have taken it upon myself to try some "experiments" as I also think everyone in different too.

For example...I am quite confident in saying exercise DOES make a difference and I've proven it through numerous tests on myself. I'll eat something which I know gives me a spike....but then I started doing a 30 minute walk exactly 30 minutes after taking my first bite, and I can virtually eliminate the spike. and keep flatlined (blood sugar, not dead!).

 

[ROSIE1988]

Yes indeed. There is far too much in terms of conflicting advice so one ends up just ignoring all of it. My Darling Hubby works 6 days a week landscaping so I think he’s safely covered doing all that exercise. I am waiting for his new BG machine to arrive so we too will measure him and judge the spikes that way. I have more or less given up reading and research as I don’t know who to believe. Dr Cavan on page 113 says he wouldn’t go on any of the low carb diets!! Think we will just eat normally but less cake etc. Test Blood glucose to see what spikes him and just be as active as we can and just take our chances with life. I honestly don’t feel anyone yet has done enough research to prove anything about diabetes really. Feeling quite depressed about it all

 

[Indy51]

I think if you read this blog by Jenny Ruhl, she makes a convincing argument to stay under 7.8mmol if you want to avoid complications of Type 2:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

How you achieve that is pretty much up to you - but bottom line is that carbohydrates affect blood glucose levels the most. That's why the 'eat to your meter' method works so well for most Type 2s.

It only needs to be as complicated as you decide to make it - I think "Keep It Simple" is a good motto.

If you're going to follow one "expert" on this subject, my advice would be to follow Jenny Ruhl's Blood Sugar 101 website. Tried and tested by many Type 2's over many years.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/18217337.php

I think the message re. exercise gets confused because most people seem to think it helps with weight loss - it doesn't. That's not to say that it's not helpful for blood glucose control. Again, exercise can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be depending on your personal tastes.

 

[bulkbiker]

Yes indeed. There is far too much in terms of conflicting advice so one ends up just ignoring all of it. My Darling Hubby works 6 days a week landscaping so I think he’s safely covered doing all that exercise. I am waiting for his new BG machine to arrive so we too will measure him and judge the spikes that way. I have more or less given up reading and research as I don’t know who to believe. Dr Cavan on page 113 says he wouldn’t go on any of the low carb diets!! Think we will just eat normally but less cake etc. Test Blood glucose to see what spikes him and just be as active as we can and just take our chances with life. I honestly don’t feel anyone yet has done enough research to prove anything about diabetes really. Feeling quite depressed about it all

Its very simple really.. cut out as many carbs as you can.. skip a meal when you feel able and measure your bloods regularly to keep an eye on them. I'm a Fung fan so would recommend him over Cavan any day of the week and having heard them both speak I know who I would follow.

 

[ROSIE1988]

Good afternoon everyone,

Some very interesting posts and I have view/read all of it and have come to this conclusion.

I/We feel that LCHF as per the Diet Doctor is far too extreme for us and are reverting to 'better than normal' - in that we are going to cut the ****** carbs right back and make better choices, but no way can we follow the tiny amounts permitted on LCHF.

Life eating all that meat, eggs, salad, veg is miserable and not sustainable long term. We would rather eat better most of the time but still enjoy that odd treat. I find it worrying that Diet Doctor website goes on about LCHF - but the whole site is steered towards virtually no carb - KETO in other words - the only reference I can find to moderate/liberal carb is one graphic and that's it - there is very little advice otherwise.

Basically isn't this the same diet at The Atkins - which has been slammed left right and centre.....

Atkins had lots of heart attacks I believe!?

Like I have said, the conflicting information generally and on this site is awful to cope with and we have been left depressed by it I am sad to say. I have seen and read that we cannot believe at least half of the research that is out there as the Medics and Pharma are basically lying to us. Where does one start believing one over the other? We cant - especially as everyone seems to have a vested interest..... The Low Carb Program is there, but they want money - The Diet Doctor - the same, money every month. Its all money making I fear and for us - undermines the advice. It will take 20-40 years to see the real outcome of all this - in the meantime a lot of people are going to be making a nice little bundle.

Some months ago I watched a Netflix Documentary and in it they mentioned cauliflower sales had plummeted. I didn't think anything of it at the time - but guess what - we are all being told that cauliflowers are brilliant for us and we can even make mash out of them and forget the potatoes…...I wonder what the sales of cauliflower have done over the last few months!? And who is behind/profiting from this? We have eaten at least 15 since we tried the LCHF! Prior to that we had it once a month if at all....

Again - Coconuts/Oil - where has all this come from? Suddenly its all the rage - again who is behind all this? I tried the oil for cooking and it was absolutely disgusting. How is it produced I wonder, what process does it go through before it reaches us - I don't believe its all natural - it is still processed.

Then we are told the drugs from the Doctor are life savers - then they are removed - this has happened a few times now - so again, how can we trust that route? Metformin is said to protect us from heart disease - but is this true? - are they going to remove it in 5 years or something?

I also find it disturbing that the figure for making someone a Diabetic has been reduced over the years - from America I think in the first place then over here - that just catches more Diabetics/customers/revenue. I don't believe for a second it was from research or anything like that - it is just a good way to fish. A similar thing happed to me with my Doctor about Blood Pressure...….She said I had BP - I didn't agree and I have had it check regularly at home and privately and I have not got BP problems - she had prescribed me Atenlone before I could say jack rabbit!

If the reason to reduce the limit was based on research - what research?- we cannot believe at least half of that remember.

I am sticking to Dr Cavans way as I think he is more down to earth and his advice is reasonable and more sustainable. He gives good advice - cut back, do small things to improve your diet, walk, and relax about Diabetes - the horrific leg amputations and blindness are not inevitable he says and I believe that. There is too much fear being spread around Diabetes - this is not helpful as people will just stop trying and give into it - especially when they cannot cope with such extremes like LCHF, 20g Carbs per day etc.....for the rest of their lives.

Page 113 From Dr Cavans books...."How many carbs should I eat"? - and I quote - IF YOU SEARCH FOR LOW CARBOHYDRATE DIETS ONLINE YOU WILL FIND ALL MANNER OF DIETS ON OFFER. MY ONE PIECE OF ADVICE AT THIS STAGE IS NOT TO GO FOR ANY OF THEM, AND TO GENERALLY STEER CLEAR OF VERY LOW CARBOHYDRATE DIETS, SUCH AS THE ATKINS - FOR THREE MAIN REASONS...

1. BY REDUCING CARB INTAKE TO LESS THAN 20G PER DAY YOU WILL EXCLUDE ALL SORTS OF HEALTHY NUTRIENTS, THIS COULD LEAD TO NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES.
2. THESE DIETS OFTEN SUGGEST EATING A HIGH AMOUNT OF FAT, WHICH MAY NOT IN ITSELF BE VERY HEALTHY.
3. SUCH A LOW CARB DIET IS RARELY SUSTAINABLE IN THE LONG TERM.

So this contradicts Dr Fung/Diet Doctor and yet both/all books are recommended by this website? ????

See why we are upset and confused...

Diabetes is now HUGE BUSINESS and I am sure an awful lot of people are making some serious dough out of this! Pardon the pun!

We have to weigh this up with what is REALLY THE BEST WAY TO COPE WITH THIS DIABETES PROBLEM. I just know that it is mentioned EVERYWHERE these days and there are a lot of websites sprouting up and diet books etc being sold on the back of this.

We will just deal with it ourselves and test at home and have a yearly test from the Doctor - got a new one we feel we can trust - for now - until the incentives for them increase - which they will - to push harder unproved drugs on us.

We will cut back on the ****** carbs like I said and keep it all in perspective, have the eye tests, watch our feet, eat well 90% of the time. Walk the dogs more often, swim etc and generally keep calm as all this Diabetes stuff increases the old Cortisol I am sure - and that is not good.

No wonder Doctors don't want us testing at home as this might put paid to their drug prescriptions and their incentives if they get them - if we can control it ourselves by self testing then we don't have to rely on them and their lies/indifference.

Paranoid? - me? - maybe - but is it really any wonder?

I wish you all - all of the very best and I will say goodbye and thank you for all the help/views and support - but after this I will close my account on here as I have also found out it is a PRIVATE COMPANY - I always thought this website was a Charity! This changes everything.

 

[britishpub]

What on earth are we supposed to think and do. Both are highly respected but who do we believe and why?

You don't have to believe either of them.

Do your research, make sure you get as broad a variety of viewpoints as possible, and then make up your own mind.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hello, for all those out there I share Dr. Jason Fung video on diabetes 2 for those who may have questions unanswered, require more info to assist in anyway, that is eloquently explained in simple terms and puts many areas into perspective.

Hope this shared knowledge proves of some help in someway?

When I started out I read a whole lot of books, often contradictory, and certainly completely opposite to what my specialists and dieticians were telling me, and you know what? I just used the advice that made sense to me. And it made sense when my meter told me I wasn't spiking, it made sense when the infections and fungii went away... Diabetes is a highly personal thing and we just have to figure out what works for us, individually. I found Fung helpful so far, and I'm at a point where I feel this diet, as I'm doing it, is doable for me. I'm fine nutrient-wise, my HbA1c is good, and I have a good relationship with food now. (At the start it was rocky, I felt like all food was poison and I didn't know what was okay anymore). Just find what works for you. For me it's keto with IF, for others it's moderate low carb, LCHF or just meds and insulin. It's your life, you decide what you want to do with it and how you find it enjoyable to live it. Am I a keto advocate? I guess I am. But not if it makes a person miserable. Good luck finding your way!

 

[bulkbiker]

@ROSIE1988
You should do whatever you wish of course. But whether you stay here or not by testing you will see the impact that foods have on blood glucose so if you take one thing away from your experience here then it should be that testing is important.
The fact that this forum is attached to a commercial site in my view changes nothing.. we aren't paid by the site and the forum has been provided free of charge. Having met a few of the people who run the main site I can safely say they are worth their weight in gold and are doing tremendous work in the field of Low Carb for treating Type 2 as well as Type 1. I have the greatest respect for them.
See how your blood sugars go with a higher carb diet but remember if you don't get great improvements a whole lot of us have by following a more keto approach and we manage to enjoy the food. Good luck for the future whether you stay or go but personally I'd stay... we're here to help and so far as I know no-one has tried to sell you anything but just to share experiences.

 

[Indy51]

I wonder when David Cavan's book that @ROSIE1988 is relying on was published?

According to this article published today, he's quoted as saying that the low carbohydrate diet can "absolutely" reverse Type 2 diabetes:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...erse-diet-low-carbohydrate-blood-sugar-levels

 

[KK123]

Good afternoon everyone,

Some very interesting posts and I have view/read all of it and have come to this conclusion.

I/We feel that LCHF as per the Diet Doctor is far too extreme for us and are reverting to 'better than normal' - in that we are going to cut the ****** carbs right back and make better choices, but no way can we follow the tiny amounts permitted on LCHF.

Life eating all that meat, eggs, salad, veg is miserable and not sustainable long term. We would rather eat better most of the time but still enjoy that odd treat. I find it worrying that Diet Doctor website goes on about LCHF - but the whole site is steered towards virtually no carb - KETO in other words - the only reference I can find to moderate/liberal carb is one graphic and that's it - there is very little advice otherwise.

Basically isn't this the same diet at The Atkins - which has been slammed left right and centre.....

Atkins had lots of heart attacks I believe!?

Like I have said, the conflicting information generally and on this site is awful to cope with and we have been left depressed by it I am sad to say. I have seen and read that we cannot believe at least half of the research that is out there as the Medics and Pharma are basically lying to us. Where does one start believing one over the other? We cant - especially as everyone seems to have a vested interest..... The Low Carb Program is there, but they want money - The Diet Doctor - the same, money every month. Its all money making I fear and for us - undermines the advice. It will take 20-40 years to see the real outcome of all this - in the meantime a lot of people are going to be making a nice little bundle.

Some months ago I watched a Netflix Documentary and in it they mentioned cauliflower sales had plummeted. I didn't think anything of it at the time - but guess what - we are all being told that cauliflowers are brilliant for us and we can even make mash out of them and forget the potatoes…...I wonder what the sales of cauliflower have done over the last few months!? And who is behind/profiting from this? We have eaten at least 15 since we tried the LCHF! Prior to that we had it once a month if at all....

Again - Coconuts/Oil - where has all this come from? Suddenly its all the rage - again who is behind all this? I tried the oil for cooking and it was absolutely disgusting. How is it produced I wonder, what process does it go through before it reaches us - I don't believe its all natural - it is still processed.

Then we are told the drugs from the Doctor are life savers - then they are removed - this has happened a few times now - so again, how can we trust that route? Metformin is said to protect us from heart disease - but is this true? - are they going to remove it in 5 years or something?

I also find it disturbing that the figure for making someone a Diabetic has been reduced over the years - from America I think in the first place then over here - that just catches more Diabetics/customers/revenue. I don't believe for a second it was from research or anything like that - it is just a good way to fish. A similar thing happed to me with my Doctor about Blood Pressure...….She said I had BP - I didn't agree and I have had it check regularly at home and privately and I have not got BP problems - she had prescribed me Atenlone before I could say jack rabbit!

If the reason to reduce the limit was based on research - what research?- we cannot believe at least half of that remember.

I am sticking to Dr Cavans way as I think he is more down to earth and his advice is reasonable and more sustainable. He gives good advice - cut back, do small things to improve your diet, walk, and relax about Diabetes - the horrific leg amputations and blindness are not inevitable he says and I believe that. There is too much fear being spread around Diabetes - this is not helpful as people will just stop trying and give into it - especially when they cannot cope with such extremes like LCHF, 20g Carbs per day etc.....for the rest of their lives.

Page 113 From Dr Cavans books...."How many carbs should I eat"? - and I quote - IF YOU SEARCH FOR LOW CARBOHYDRATE DIETS ONLINE YOU WILL FIND ALL MANNER OF DIETS ON OFFER. MY ONE PIECE OF ADVICE AT THIS STAGE IS NOT TO GO FOR ANY OF THEM, AND TO GENERALLY STEER CLEAR OF VERY LOW CARBOHYDRATE DIETS, SUCH AS THE ATKINS - FOR THREE MAIN REASONS...

1. BY REDUCING CARB INTAKE TO LESS THAN 20G PER DAY YOU WILL EXCLUDE ALL SORTS OF HEALTHY NUTRIENTS, THIS COULD LEAD TO NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES.
2. THESE DIETS OFTEN SUGGEST EATING A HIGH AMOUNT OF FAT, WHICH MAY NOT IN ITSELF BE VERY HEALTHY.
3. SUCH A LOW CARB DIET IS RARELY SUSTAINABLE IN THE LONG TERM.

So this contradicts Dr Fung/Diet Doctor and yet both/all books are recommended by this website? ????

See why we are upset and confused...

Diabetes is now HUGE BUSINESS and I am sure an awful lot of people are making some serious dough out of this! Pardon the pun!

We have to weigh this up with what is REALLY THE BEST WAY TO COPE WITH THIS DIABETES PROBLEM. I just know that it is mentioned EVERYWHERE these days and there are a lot of websites sprouting up and diet books etc being sold on the back of this.

We will just deal with it ourselves and test at home and have a yearly test from the Doctor - got a new one we feel we can trust - for now - until the incentives for them increase - which they will - to push harder unproved drugs on us.

We will cut back on the ****** carbs like I said and keep it all in perspective, have the eye tests, watch our feet, eat well 90% of the time. Walk the dogs more often, swim etc and generally keep calm as all this Diabetes stuff increases the old Cortisol I am sure - and that is not good.

No wonder Doctors don't want us testing at home as this might put paid to their drug prescriptions and their incentives if they get them - if we can control it ourselves by self testing then we don't have to rely on them and their lies/indifference.

Paranoid? - me? - maybe - but is it really any wonder?

I wish you all - all of the very best and I will say goodbye and thank you for all the help/views and support - but after this I will close my account on here as I have also found out it is a PRIVATE COMPANY - I always thought this website was a Charity! This changes everything.

Rosie, now I find that interesting, I never knew this was a private site with a commercial aspect. I don't think it makes any difference to me as such as I find the advice very helpful. I would like to know which of the posters have any connection to the site or its commercial side though as I thought all of the posters were just 'simple' members of the public.

 

[Indy51]

I would like to know which of the posters have any connection to the site or its commercial side though as I thought all of the posters were just 'simple' members of the public.

Pretty sure you're right. I've been a member since 2012 and have never had a hint of anything along those lines. Nobody is forcing anyone to sign up for the low carb program since it started charging, nobody is forcing anyone to sign up for any of the the promotions happening on the main site rather than the forum. None of the moderators get paid AFAIK - everything they do is voluntary.

 

[Mr_Pot]

The information is on the home page.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/about.html

 

[zand]

@ROSIE1988 you are correct that this site (DCUK) is privately run and DUK is the charity. DUK gives bad advice for T2s, this site gives good advice from ordinary members of the public. It depends who you want to believe really. - ordinary diabetics just like me on this site or a charity that is funded in the main by food and drugs companies.

 

[ROSIE1988]

Good afternoon everyone,

Thank you all for your input - I have stuck around as I didn't want to just cut and run and not get some feedback - so thank you again for your help and kind words.

The book I have is 2014 - the orange and yellow book - 'Reverse your Diabetes' - bought 10 days ago brand new from Amazon - but seeing the above link which you say has him saying its a good idea - (I haven't looked at the link properly yet), just adds to my point.

One minute 'they' - the 'experts' are saying this - the next - something completely different - and I can hear you all saying well its because of the new research! But that's my problem - the research is not safe! We cannot believe the research as it has been proven not to be safe as the medics/pharma just make it up to suit themselves...……

I do agree with you Bulkbiker that testing at home will be crucial and this is something we are going to stick to - I have lost another 3lb this week - though I have eaten toast two days running - but otherwise I have not eaten many carbs or anything really. My Darling Hubby has been extremely good and only had one wholemeal roll - so we are hanging on in there - a bit!

On a side note - I have had a 'problem' with humbugs! I started about 18 months ago when I fancied a boiled sweet - well 18 months later and I was getting through a bag a day!! I am not diabetic, but I was surely heading that way - I am very overweight, however, and am doing all this to save myself too and we are supporting eachother here together. I have stopped the humbugs - cold turkey 2 weeks ago but I am still craving them and the crunch like mad. Is there an alternative - diabetic humbugs!? - don't shout at me hahaha.

As regards the sites - yes indeed this is a privately owned company and absolutely in no way have I been pushed or pressured to buy anything through it - but I just thought it was a charity - and there are commercial connections all over the site aren't there and especially the Diet Doc and Low Carb Program etc...….

The other site Diabetes UK - I haven't looked at them a lot as I felt very welcome here and it has been proven that you can really have your say on here and you don't get blasted for it. Which is fantastic thank you.

Why is the other site - the charity one - not so good? Do they push the carbs? I will have a mooch around their site later too.

I have still been left with this awful feeling of not wanting to eat anything!? I am fed up to the back teeth with salads and vegetables and meat! Ew. Eggs as well. There is nothing left to eat. I loved all these foods prior to trying the LCHF - what has happened to my brain as it has just switched off? I now can only stomach brown toast, wheetabix and diet coke and sparkling water and hunks of cheese as I pass the fridge. And I would kill for a humbug haha.

I do suffer from depression and severe anxiety and have been diagnosed properly with PTSD after my fathers and sisters deaths), and I am just a little bit worried I am going to go down a dodgy path and stop eating etc.....no sure what else to say about that really.

Anyway, thank you all again and I will stick around and try and figure all this out.

All the best to you all

 

[zand]

@ROSIE1988 be kind to yourself, slow down, don't try to do it all at once, stick with us, you will get there.

 

[Resurgam]

Beware of believing what you read/hear about Atkins - both the way of eating and its consequences and that Dr Atkins had heart attacks or died as a result of 'heart - something nasty'.
Dr Atkins did have a heart condition but it was not brought on by his diet - rather the reverse.
I have long been told that people have died as a result of eating LCHF but when I produce my notebook and ask for details, it becomes 'everybody knows'.
I think that the Atkins way of eating, with its different stages which are chosen by the individual and the advice to tailor to your own preferences and requirements strikes fear into those who would prefer to keep it, and us as simple as possible - and compliant to market forces rather than our own needs.

 

[ROSIE1988]

Thank you Zand. . I have found fellow humbugs addicts on this site. I didn’t realise you could get sugar free sweets!? But these won’t necessarily be low or zero carb will they!? Can you get a zero/low carb sugar free sweet at all anyway? Or would it consist of nothing ? Hadn’t even thought outside my beloved humbugs box haha x