Did I have a Hypo?

[Brunneria]

I am on heart medications Brunneria. What worried me was the fact this has only ever happened once before, on 1 large glass of wine, yet again empty tummy, but to be honest I had only not long been diagnosed with Pre-diabetes but had a meter I did test then and my level was 3.2 or 3 so quite low. It felt the same as back then. This was over a year ago. I knew nothing about BGL's back then. I did not relate to not eating anything, but today I sat thinking about it all and traced my tracks and connected to back then. I remember the other night feeling Dizzy and hot, also felt sick. It came on all of a sudden. I remember saying to hubby that I did not feel too good, kind of drunk and wondered why on under 2 glasses of wine which I drank over 2 hours, so I did pace the wine. I did not black out because I asked hubby, but some part of the night from leaving the pub and getting home I could not remember, still can't. I do remember when being home having some berries as I had not eaten, oh and an apple. After I felt much better. I will never drink on an empty tummy again that's for sure. I only ever have 2 glasses, so it was a shock to feel so drunk and dizzy.

Hi,

I would suggest that you have a good look at the information sheet that comes with your heart meds (and any other meds you may be taking). If you have thrown the packaging away, then you can find the info online.

The info sheet will always list the most common contraindications, and whether drinking alcohol interacts with the medication.

There are also Drug Interaction Checkers online that allow you to enter each drug, herb and spice you have taken, and will produce a list of all known interactions between them.

As an example, when I entered my long term prescription of Cabergoline with my short term prescription of Amlodipine, a while back, I was warned that the two drugs interactacted to significantly enhance the blood pressure drop caused by Amlodipine. This could be a desired or not desired effect, depending on the person, of course!

I would urge everyone to use this kind of checker for every prescription or over the counter med they may take. Some of the interactions are severe, and doctors just don’t look these things up (lack of time). Grapefruit and statins. Alcohol and antibiotics. These are just two out of many examples.

I hope you are feeling better Derry, and think you may be advised to carry your meter around with you in case it happens again. Always wise to get these things checked out by the doc too.

 

[EllieM]

In type 1 diabetic the hormone glucagon does not work, because there isn’t any insulin coming from the beta cells, this is the reason diabetics on insulin can get severe hypos.

I thought glucagon was still produced in T1s, as a result of low blood sugar. The reason T1s need to be careful of alcohol is that it inhibits the liver's response to the glucagon. Of course, if you're T3 (damaged/removed pancreas) you no longer produce the glucagon and so you have to be even more careful about hypos.

OK, just googled it and some T1s don't produce glucagon. I guess that's one cause of brittle diabetes?

 

[kokhongw]

@Emile_the_rat

We should always keep in mind that our brain blackout when it doesn't have adequate fuel ie when both glucose AND ketones are low. That is why low glucose is not the only parameter and explains why many may remain asymptomatic even though their glucose may be below the clinical hypo threshold. < 3.0mmol. They could have adequate ketones to tide them thru.

And often symptomatic/severe hypo can occur for those who are prediabetes or T2D because insulin resistance in the brain already reduced glucose uptake. They need higher level of glucose or presence of ketones to be functional. Yet the constantly high level of insulin in those with prediabetes suppresses ketones production. That sets up a double whammy condition that makes hypoglycemia particularly dangerous for prediabetic/T2D/RH...when driving/operating heavy machinery etc.

I do not disagree that exogenous insulin use greatly increases the risk, severity and possibilty of hypo. What I disagree is that we should not dismiss the risks and possibility of severe debilitating hypo for prediabetic/RH although you may not have experienced it yourself.

More often than not, it is simply an unrecognized condition.

 

[Jaylee]

.

More often than not, it is simply an unrecognized condition.

A few years years ago I worked in retail. I dealt with a hypoglycemic T1 customer. On one occaision before he got violent I spotted the signs..

I've also dealt with a non D having simalar issues.. In Fact if I didn't know any better? The onset of dementia. Learning from the first experience of wrestling a guy off me & throwing a mars bar in self defence I stood well back with this one (even though I dealt with this person on a regular basis.) whilst this woman struggled to count currency in the transaction, then questioned the change I'd given in return, then forgetting her purchases on the counter.. Classic hypo., a simple task was rocket science. (She also had shaky unsteady hands & looking a little sweaty in the air con'd environment.)
My parting shot with this woman was get something to eat. (Pretty much the advice I'd give a T1.)
I saw her a couple of days later (back to her normal sharp witted self.) & she had indeed felt better after a couple of biscuits & a cuppa.. She couldn't work out what had happened.. (She certainly had no meter in her possession.)

The more informed among us are fully aware.. It does happen..

In the OP's case.
Alcohol can retard any liver dump as it is buisy dealing with the booze.. Coupled with the fasting, then BGs could rapidly drop without the dump as a "buffer" giving these symptoms & possibly blacking out.. This is all pending on the individual's tolerance to low BGs & how low in the sub 3.5s they can handle it. Regardless of whether meds or not are involved...

Hope yer feeling better now @derry60 , after your wild experience..?

 

[Emile_the_rat]

This is by no means an argument against your comment but comes from a need for a little more detail.
I know very little about Type 1 Diabetes but have heard/read nothing on the glucagon response, could you say a little on the mechanism whereby in the absence of insulin the glucagon response is faulty in T1, thanks.

The hormone insulin works as a hepatocyte to stimulate glycogen synthase, the release of glycogen when blood sugar is too low. The endocrine part of the pancreas, the pancreatic islets have two main functions. Alpha cells for glucagon production, and beta cells for insulin. When beta cells produce insulin it will stimulate the alpha cells to a glucagon secretion, this is not possible without insulin as a hepatocyte.

Since type 1 diabetics does not have beta cells, there isn’t any hormone (insulin) to stimulate the release of glucagon from alpha cells.

So type 1 diabetics do have alpha cells, but the mechanism is broken due to the lack of beta cells.

Emile, you are making statements that simply are not true.

None of us know whether @derry60 had a hypo or not, because she did not test at the time.

Whether she had a hypo, or not, you should not be making absolute statements without enough information.
And you are 100% wrong that only T1s on insulin will pass out from hypos.
Severe blackout hypos can be caused by insulinomas, RH, medications other than insulin, and health conditions other than diabetes. So your statement is simply wrong.
https://www.healthline.com/health/hypoglycemia#prevention

Please stop making absolute statements that give out incorrect information that may mislead members.

I do not mislead, I talk from experience, and by the information in this tread it does not seem like a hypo. Sorry if you do not agree with me, but from experience I can tell that a hypo have to be really severe before you get «memory loss» of the hypoglycemic episode. And I can also tell that OP did not have a severe hypo as she renoveres just fine without medical care.

The article you posted mentioned that hypoglycemia could occure to other conditions than diabetes, and I never denied that.

I statens that hypoglycemic coma was not possible without medications like insulin, because: the glycogen synthase are only defect in type 1 diabetics or people with an endocrine pancreas insufficiency. The glycogen synthase dumps glycogen to prevent a lethal coma.

If you had read the whole article before wronging me, you would have read that severly low hypoglycemia calls on immediate treatment. If someone states they had a hypo, but does not remember, it would mean they had a real severe hypo. And to be fair, you won’t live through a severe hypo without medical care.

I do not know if you’re diabetic, or have people close to you with diabetes. But let me just say this, if you forget or does not remember a hypo (like
op say), then it would mean you have had a severe hypo. And if you do ever have or experience a severe hypo, I can trust you that it is not just like feeling drunk, but much worse.
Also I know that me, and others wouldn’t be here without immediate help if we ever get a hypo that are so severe that we does not remember all of it.

Of course op could have had a mild hypo, but the part of her not remember what happened makes me believe it was not a hypo.

I don’t mean to make absolute statesmemt, but I think I have my right share of telling the difference from a severe hypo or not. At least I think I know more of how it feels then people who have never had to deal with this in real

Of course you can make wrongs on a forum, because I only know what op wrote and never really were there. But, from my experience and knowledge (education) it does not sound like a hypoglycemic episode to me.

 

[Emile_the_rat]

I am not T1 or on insulin yet I have experienced this on more than one occasion my blood sugars have been as low as 2.2 and lower diabetes tends not to follow our preconception or rules.

Hi, my lowest reading before I started on insulin were 2.3, so yes it is possible. But I did not forget what happened or lacked consciousness.

For me a severe hypo is when you get memory loss and loss of consciousness. That does not happen before it gets even lower, at least not for me.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi @Emile_the_rat

I think we are experiencing a bit of a language barrier, since we are talking at cross purposes.
There is no reason at all why you cannot describe your own experiences and explain your opinions.

However, telling people that their experiences are (or are not) a hypo, based on your experiences is misleading.
Hypos are measured by the amount of glucose in the bloodstream, not by you, and whether their symptoms match your personal checklist.

This is a discussion that will be better in a private message, so I will write to you privately.

 

[JAT1]

The hormone insulin works as a hepatocyte to stimulate glycogen synthase, the release of glycogen when blood sugar is too low. The endocrine part of the pancreas, the pancreatic islets have two main functions. Alpha cells for glucagon production, and beta cells for insulin. When beta cells produce insulin it will stimulate the alpha cells to a glucagon secretion, this is not possible without insulin as a hepatocyte.
Since type 1 diabetics does not have beta cells, there isn’t any hormone (insulin) to stimulate the release of glucagon from alpha cells.
So type 1 diabetics do have alpha cells, but the mechanism is broken due to the lack of beta cells.
Thank you very much for this information. I'm type 1 and have recently wondered if one thing is wrong with my pancreas, maybe something else is wrong too. So this could very well be why I am prone to hypos. I eat carbs when I'm going low so I haven't had a hypo in weeks. My BG just keeps dropping if I don't take action and consume fast carbs.

 

[JAT1]

Thank you Emile-the-rat very much for this information about glucagon. I'm type 1 and have recently wondered if one thing is wrong with my pancreas, maybe something else is wrong too. So this could very well be why I am prone to hypos. I eat carbs when I'm going low so I haven't had a hypo in weeks. My BG just keeps dropping if I don't take action and consume fast carbs. (Somehow my reply got separated from the quote !?)

 

[Guzzler]

The hormone insulin works as a hepatocyte to stimulate glycogen synthase, the release of glycogen when blood sugar is too low. The endocrine part of the pancreas, the pancreatic islets have two main functions. Alpha cells for glucagon production, and beta cells for insulin. When beta cells produce insulin it will stimulate the alpha cells to a glucagon secretion, this is not possible without insulin as a hepatocyte.

Since type 1 diabetics does not have beta cells, there isn’t any hormone (insulin) to stimulate the release of glucagon from alpha cells.

So type 1 diabetics do have alpha cells, but the mechanism is broken due to the lack of beta cells.


I do not mislead, I talk from experience, and by the information in this tread it does not seem like a hypo. Sorry if you do not agree with me, but from experience I can tell that a hypo have to be really severe before you get «memory loss» of the hypoglycemic episode. And I can also tell that OP did not have a severe hypo as she renoveres just fine without medical care.

The article you posted mentioned that hypoglycemia could occure to other conditions than diabetes, and I never denied that.

I statens that hypoglycemic coma was not possible without medications like insulin, because: the glycogen synthase are only defect in type 1 diabetics or people with an endocrine pancreas insufficiency. The glycogen synthase dumps glycogen to prevent a lethal coma.

If you had read the whole article before wronging me, you would have read that severly low hypoglycemia calls on immediate treatment. If someone states they had a hypo, but does not remember, it would mean they had a real severe hypo. And to be fair, you won’t live through a severe hypo without medical care.

I do not know if you’re diabetic, or have people close to you with diabetes. But let me just say this, if you forget or does not remember a hypo (like
op say), then it would mean you have had a severe hypo. And if you do ever have or experience a severe hypo, I can trust you that it is not just like feeling drunk, but much worse.
Also I know that me, and others wouldn’t be here without immediate help if we ever get a hypo that are so severe that we does not remember all of it.

Of course op could have had a mild hypo, but the part of her not remember what happened makes me believe it was not a hypo.

I don’t mean to make absolute statesmemt, but I think I have my right share of telling the difference from a severe hypo or not. At least I think I know more of how it feels then people who have never had to deal with this in real

Of course you can make wrongs on a forum, because I only know what op wrote and never really were there. But, from my experience and knowledge (education) it does not sound like a hypoglycemic episode to me.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

 

[Jaylee]

Since type 1 diabetics does not have beta cells, there isn’t any hormone (insulin) to stimulate the release of glucagon from alpha cells.

So type 1 diabetics do have alpha cells, but the mechanism is broken due to the lack of beta cells..
.

Hi T1 for over 42 years here.(we're talking childhood diagnosed.)

It is possible to have the feeling of walking into a room & not remembering why during a confirmed hypo..
Meters also read blood from upto 20 minutes prior. (A snapshot in time.) which means the OP could have dropped lower

Could you elaborate & explain why so many "Dawn phenominom" incidences discussed by T1s

Thank you Emile-the-rat very much for this information about glucagon. I'm type 1 and have recently wondered if one thing is wrong with my pancreas, maybe something else is wrong too. So this could very well be why I am prone to hypos. I eat carbs when I'm going low so I haven't had a hypo in weeks. My BG just keeps dropping if I don't take action and consume fast carbs. (Somehow my reply got separated from the quote !?)

@JAT1 , sorry to burst this revelation bubble. I believe you are reletivly newly diagnosed.. The "honeymoon" period may do this stuff too... As my statement above. If you are testing whilst low & after treating 10 or 5 minutes apart, in the hope of seeing a rise up to half an hour after the first bite of the fast acting carb? You maybe seeing a false representation on the meter??

 

[Emile_the_rat]

Hi @Emile_the_rat

I think we are experiencing a bit of a language barrier, since we are talking at cross purposes.
There is no reason at all why you cannot describe your own experiences and explain your opinions.

However, telling people that their experiences are (or are not) a hypo, based on your experiences is misleading.
Hypos are measured by the amount of glucose in the bloodstream, not by you, and whether their symptoms match your personal checklist.

This is a discussion that will be better in a private message, so I will write to you privately.

Hi @Emile_the_rat

I think we are experiencing a bit of a language barrier, since we are talking at cross purposes.
There is no reason at all why you cannot describe your own experiences and explain your opinions.

However, telling people that their experiences are (or are not) a hypo, based on your experiences is misleading.
Hypos are measured by the amount of glucose in the bloodstream, not by you, and whether their symptoms match your personal checklist.

This is a discussion that will be better in a private message, so I will write to you privately.

Well I have to agree there. I should have mentioned my statement were based on my own experience and knowledge.

Post edited by moderator to remove ongoing argument from derailing the thread.

 

[Emile_the_rat]

Hi T1 for over 42 years here.(we're talking childhood diagnosed.)

It is possible to have the feeling of walking into a room & not remembering why during a confirmed hypo..
Meters also read blood from upto 20 minutes prior. (A snapshot in time.) which means the OP could have dropped lower

Could you elaborate & explain why so many "Dawn phenominom" incidences discussed by T1s

Yes everyone can have small memory losses, like where did I pur my keys, or what was I’m bout to do. And that does not have to have anything with being hypo, normal people do these things all the time too. Even thought I know you can get more out of focus or dissorientated when hypo.

But op talks about a more severe type of memory loss, were she can’t remember getting out in the car or how. And this kind of huge memory loss or loss of consciousness do I never get from mild to moderate hypos. But well I should say as @Brunneria corrected me, I am talking out of my own experience here

 

[DCUKMod]

Well I have to agree there. I should have mentioned my statement were based on my own experience and knowledge.

On the other side, when someone asks in a tread if they had or did not have a hypo, it should be okay to give them a answere without the moderators to «take action» or attacking members for saying what they think, or because the moderator doesn’t have sufficient education on the matter of speaking.

We can argue all we want, but it is not medical possible to get memory loss from a hypo (like op did) unless it were so severe that it left you unconscious. If you do have such a severe hypo it will need emergency medical treatment, or else you will go into a coma.

Since op say she did have memory loss, it had to be a very severe episode if she did have a hypo, but she did recover without medical attention. Therefore, from a medical point of view I can say (based on op’s telling) that she did not have a hypo.

It’s not guessing, or putring in my own personal experience her. If you have ever studied physiology and endocrinology you can tell this based on simple pathology.

Emile - Could you indulge me with an explanation of exactly what your qualifications are in this regard - specifically your physiology and endocrinology qualifications?

 

[Flora123]

Ok, where do I start? My husband and I went out to the pub two days ago for the evening with the intentions of going for a meal after. I had not eaten that day at all. We were sitting in the pub just chatting. We had been there for 2 hours, I had not even finished my second glass of wine. (They were large glasses pub measures) I got up to go to the toilet and I felt as if I was really drunk. Got back to my seat and felt really Woozy, anyway upon leaving just before the entrance of the door to leave..I went down flat on my face. It felt as if my knee gave way,as I do have arthritis in my knees, but I felt as if I had lost complete control because of feeling drunk. I cannot even remember getting into the cab with my husband or getting out to enter my home. This happened to me once before the feeling drunk and falling after just one glass of wine a few months ago, but I did not connect it to a Hypo as I was diagnosed as Pre-diabetic and read that even Pre-diabetics can suffer a sugar drop. I remember feeling sick in the pub and hot. I was only on my second glass had a quarter of wine still left, so 1 and three-quarters of wine over 2 hours is not a lot. Apart from one time, wine never effects me like that. I have now got a lovely black eye and bruised head. I look like a Panda lol. Wondering did I have a Hypo? I did not check by BG because I felt not well

From my experience I’d say yes. Alcohol does lower BG so if you were already low then it could have dropped it much lower.

I was out one night for dinner with my sister. I was a little tipsy and when I tested before bed it was 2.7! However in my drunken state I read 27 and cried for ages . My diagnosis FBS was 22 hence being so upset.

Anyway, I felt hammered but hadn’t had enough alcohol to feel so drunk, so yes it is possible.

Ps. I should add that I didn’t feel unwell at all. Just more drunk than I should have been

 

[lucylocket61]

If you «blacked out» you did not have a hypo. Easy as that.

Only type 1 diabetics, or diabetics on insulin can get a severe hypo that lead to unconsciousness.

Yes, having a mild hypo can feel a little bit like being drunk, but when it gets worse you will start to shake, get spasm, and that is right before you black out or get unconscious.

To be honest it does sound more like you aren’t very tolerant to alcohol since alcohol were present in both of this experiences.

Also pre-diabetics does not experience hypos, at least not the way patients with RH or diabetics on insulin does. You can get a rapid drop, but nothing severe.

I faint if my blood sugar levels drop too low too quickly. For some reason my liver doesnt kick in fast enough, and I faint. I have to be aware of the symptoms coming on and act fast. And I am a type 2 on no meds.

My doctor didnt believe me, until it happened in the surgery. Its possible.

 

[lucylocket61]

my son, who was very ill and nearly died in the summer, had a blood glucose level of 2.2 and was semi concious. And he is not even pre-diabetic.

 

[Alison Campbell]

I recall reading on diet doctor that low carbing does lower your tolerence to alcohol, this makes sense to me so be careful everyone.
@derry60 thanks for the reminder, hope your bruising is reducing quickly.

 

[derry60]

my son, who was very ill and nearly died in the summer, had a blood glucose level of 2.2 and was semi concious. And he is not even pre-diabetic.

Oh my goodness. Just goes to show that it can happen to anybody. This must have really frightened you. I trust that he is ok now. Did the docs say what could of caused it?

 

[derry60]

From my experience I’d say yes. Alcohol does lower BG so if you were already low then it could have dropped it much lower.

I was out one night for dinner with my sister. I was a little tipsy and when I tested before bed it was 2.7! However in my drunken state I read 27 and cried for ages . My diagnosis FBS was 22 hence being so upset.

Anyway, I felt hammered but hadn’t had enough alcohol to feel so drunk, so yes it is possible.

Ps. I should add that I didn’t feel unwell at all. Just more drunk than I should have been

Sorry I could not help but laugh when you misread your readings. You cried for nothing lol