Is a Keto diet harmful??

kokhongw

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A type 1 without any carb intake would most probably die

Are you not confusing low carb with no carbs?

When I first considered low carbing...the lack of long term safety study is pretty glaring.

So the next best thing would be to have a look at the next group who would most likely be using this for life...from 3 yr old to 83 yr old...enters...Dr B and Typeonegrit...

47102746_1161574100668013_8633557333579923456_o.jpg
 

Boo1979

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Boo1979

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Either through 1) being on insulin and constant hypos 2) by the action of gluconeogenesis and the body not having insulin to mop up the excess leading to high sugars with the assosciated DKA risk
 
M

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A type 1 without any carb intake would most probably die

You’re probably right but only if they didn’t adjust their insulin dose accordingly. Surely type 1 diabetics are still able to manufacture glucose via gluconeogenesis? Clearly it would carry a risk if the patient were not well informed or medically supervised with their dosing, but otherwise I’m unsure by which mechanism a type 1 would die without carbohydrate. In fact before the discovery of insulin, ketogenic diets were the most effective treatment for type 1 diabetes.
 

Boo1979

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Are you not confusing low carb with no carbs?

When I first considered low carbing...the lack of long term safety study is pretty glaring.

So the next best thing would be to have a look at the next group who would most likely be using this for life...from 3 yr old to 83 yr old...enters...Dr B and Typeonegrit...

47102746_1161574100668013_8633557333579923456_o.jpg
No i am refering to no carbs which was what was postulated
 

Boo1979

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You’re probably right but only if they didn’t adjust their insulin dose accordingly. Surely type 1 diabetics are still able to manufacture glucose via gluconeogenesis? Clearly it would carry a risk if the patient were not well informed or medically supervised with their dosing, but otherwise I’m unsure by which mechanism a type 1 would die without carbohydrate. In fact before the discovery of insulin, ketogenic diets were the most effective treatment for type 1 diabetes.
Who had a limited life expectancy
 

bulkbiker

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Either through 1) being on insulin and constant hypos 2) by the action of gluconeogenesis and the body not having insulin to mop up the excess leading to high sugars with the assosciated DKA risk

So it would be an excess of insulin and not the lack of carbs in your first case?

And the second would be caused by a lack of insulin?

So a lack of carbs wouldn't be the cause of either logically.. although carbs could help to regulate?
 
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kokhongw

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I reversed my Type 2
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Either through 1) being on insulin and constant hypos 2) by the action of gluconeogenesis and the body not having insulin to mop up the excess leading to high sugars with the assosciated DKA risk

Wrong...small input (carbs) requires small doses of insulin. The law of small numbers. They get flatline glucose CGM readings...they thrive, not die...

18556291_809470685878358_6751993980386787722_n.jpg
 
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kokhongw

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No i am refering to no carbs which was what was postulated

Since when did keto means no carbs?

Your statement clearly states reduction, not elimination...
There is no question that carb reduction is essential for most if not all T2 diabetics, and some T2s can go to very low carb levels - the picture is completely different for T1’s
 

Boo1979

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So it would be an excess of insulin and not the lack of carbs in your first case?

And the second would be caused by a lack of insulin?

So a lack of carbs wouldn't be the cause of either logically.. although carbs could help to regulate?

If you need to take insulin to mop up excess glucose resulting from gluconeogenesis which the body does naturally, particularly in the absence of any carbs and failure to mop up excess insulin leads to rising sugars and potentially DKA, then the lack of any carbs would be the starting point
Wrong...small input (carbs) requires small doses of insulin. The law of small numbers. They get flatline glucose CGM readings...they thrive, not die...

18556291_809470685878358_6751993980386787722_n.jpg
small input is still an input of carbs - the post was arguing that there is no need for any carbs
 

bulkbiker

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failure to mop up excess insulin leads to rising sugars and potentially DKA,
Eh? Excess insulin leading to rising sugars? don't think so...DKA with excess insulin .. nope.. DKA is caused by a lack of insulin not an excess.
 
M

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But type 1 diabetics generally aren’t insulin resistant, so their liver won’t just keep pumping out glucose with reckless abandon. I guess it depends on dosing, again.

I’m not saying there aren’t risks, but I think we’re knocking down straw men now. Let’s asume ketogenic diets are dangerous to type 1 diabetics, and get back to the wider topic, which is are they dangerous for everyone else? :D
 

kokhongw

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I reversed my Type 2
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If you need to take insulin to mop up excess glucose resulting from gluconeogenesis which the body does naturally, particularly in the absence of any carbs and failure to mop up excess insulin leads to rising sugars and potentially DKA, then the lack of any carbs would be the starting point

They will simply have to adjust their basal insulin to match the gluconeogenesis output. They don't need to take as much bolus insulin for their meals. So no hypo, no DKA. Just flatline glucose.
 
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M

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I just checked to make sure I wasn’t going mad. There’s no RDA for carbohydrate. It is undisputed fact that the human body does not require carbohydrate. It requires a nominal level of glucose, but can manufacture its own.

Everything else aside, I hope we can put that particular facet of the discussion to bed. There’s no “probably” involved :)
 

Brunneria

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Let’s asume ketogenic diets are dangerous to type 1 diabetics, and get back to the wider topic, which is are they dangerous for everyone else? :D

Hmmm. That isn’t an assumption I am prepared to make. :)

But setting that aside ( andnot addressing Jim in particular) there are so many factors at work, and this discussion is just devolving into polarisation and one line policy statements, which don’t reflect the reality of any of our lives.

Speaking for my own health, I have very little interest in whether keto eating may, in time, prove harmful to me.

My interest lies in whether it is more, or less harmful than other ways of eating.

Going on my current experiences, research and health, I can categorically state that I feel better on keto than when eating non-keto. Part of that is blood glucose control, part is running on ketones, part is avoiding food intolerances, part is better digestion. Oh, and reduction in inflammation. Also better concentration and stamina. I also see no ‘keto damage’ to my health or blood tests, including cholesterol.

Keto would have to be very harmful indeed for me to forgo all those for returning to non-keto and losing the benefits.

As a lesser of two weavils, I will take keto, with a smile.

(Edited to add the weavils, cos I couldn’t resist).
 
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Boo1979

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Show me some scientific research data that shows that type 1 diabetics can survive on zero carbs (not Bersteins 30g maximum) and Ill happily agree that no diabetic needs any carbs.
In the meantime Ive got other things to be getting on with