WHAT'S GOING ON?

Mbaker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,339
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Available fast foods in Supermarkets
If I were a millionaire those who promote the Eatwell guide for Type 2's would spend more time in court than at home, it is just ludicrous and criminal. I have other adjectives for both the diet and those who should know better, but this is not a private message.

I would hope you would consider a whole food Ketogenic diet, as LCHF may not be low enough in carbs for you and Ketones are apparently heart protective. In your shoes I would consider the low carb program on this site or diet doctor, just to ensure you can take out the guess work and get support.
 

MEValentijn

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
This article is a review of treatments forthe combination of Diabetes and Chronic Heart Failure:
https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/39/48/4243/5123540


It looks at the evidence of outcomes for various diabetes meds used in patients with heart failure, as well as the likely impact ketogenic diets. Basically it's very common for patients with heart failure to get diabetes, as the heart failure causes changes in metabolism which increase the production of ketones to use as fuel.

There's a lot of gaps in the data, but it's a decent starting point. You probably need to talk to a specialist who's an expect in Diabetes in CHF patients.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Basically it's very common for patients with heart failure to get diabetes, as the heart failure causes changes in metabolism which increase the production of ketones to use as fuel.

I think you may find that is specifically not what it says at all?

"However, whether enhanced ketone body metabolism is a cause, a consequence, a bystander or a compensating mechanism in HF is presently unknown."

Far more likely that people with diabetes get heart failure and not the other way round.

" type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), obesity or chronic kidney disease, all highly prevalent in HF populations, have shifted from being innocent bystanders to drivers of HF."
 

MEValentijn

Active Member
Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
Far more likely that people with diabetes get heart failure and not the other way round.

" type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), obesity or chronic kidney disease, all highly prevalent in HF populations, have shifted from being innocent bystanders to drivers of HF."

"Drivers" doesn't mean that that they only cause HF, and not vice versa. It also means that they interact with each other to exacerbate the entire situation:
"Thus, epidemiological evidence implies a bidirectional association between HF and T2DM (Figure 1), with one increasing the incidence and worsening the prognosis of the respective other.14"

I think you may find that is specifically not what it says at all?

"However, whether enhanced ketone body metabolism is a cause, a consequence, a bystander or a compensating mechanism in HF is presently unknown."

Indeed it's not known why it happens - but the fact remains that if someone has CHF, they are relying much more upon ketones:
"In heart failure, increased uptake of free fatty acids and glucose into the cytosol is uncoupled from mitochondrial uptake and oxidation of free fatty acid and pyruvate, respectively. This provokes accumulation of metabolic intermediates in the cytosol which can trigger lipo- and glucotoxicity. Instead, utilization of ketone bodies is increased in heart failure.
"

If your interest in posting is to quibble about the distinction between causation and correlation, please find a more relevant venue. Out of respect to the original poster, try to stay relevant to their concerns.
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
Hi Quentin
I hope this helps you

6 weeks ago to the day I was admitted to hospital.
I had had a blinding headache for two weeks prior. I went to the doctors who said my BP was high (I had a pulse rate of 120 per min)
I was very short of breath
I had a blotchy rash over most of my body
I ticked every box for sepsis... (Which I did not have... we did not know this to be the case then)
Doctor said not to worry !!!
This was on the Wednesday.

Over the next two days I became far far worse, dizzy, disorientated, I fell over backwards I totally lost my balance.
I had NO food for a total of 7 days.

Two days later my wife said she was going to take me to hospital, I said lets go back to the doctors (we live literally 2mins from the doctors) as we walked in, the doctor (a different doctor) took one look at me and said go immediately to hospital (he was going to 'blue light' me) that means call an emergency ambulance.

My wife drove me there where I was seen and admitted.
I was placed on a saline drip for 2 days and nights
The first thing the consultant did was stop my metformin and started me on 100 units of insulin and 2 80mg Glicaside a day.

Several blood tests, 3 days and 3 consultants later the general consensus was that I had a very virulent virus.
I have never felt so ill in my life.

Now
Over the last 6 weeks I have reduced my carbs from 100g a day 6 weeks ago, to 80g them 70, and a couple of weeks ago down to 50g a day.
I had to reduce my insulin (in stages to 70 units) as I drive for a living and have to keep above 5 to drive (DVLA rule) It is the law here.

I have never felt so well. in just 6 weeks I have gone from being at deaths door to feeling really well.
I dropped my morning tablet as I was still hitting low readings during the day. (below 5)
As things stand at the moment I am averaging a daily total of 6.1 on the screen.
(I am testing around 10 times a day every day) So that I can see exactly what my BG levels are doing.

It may be that 'you' have a similar virus????

The only other thing of note is I was/am low on folic acid and have today picked up a 5mg pack of tablets to take one a day.

I have found a low carb approach is easy to maintain thus far. I have not felt hungry once over the last month and a half.

I have read and read and read and watched video after video and found so much helpful advice here and some amazing facts from posters who 'walk the talk' NOT experts but normal people like you and me. People who live this life everyday.

KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS! KEEP READING.
BUT MOST OF ALL... KEEP LOW CARB.

I am not a doctor or expert nor am I in a position to offer you any medical help or guidance in any way, as that is the job of the medical experts, whose advice you MUST seek and follow (or not) ;)

It seems that a low carbohydrate and high fat diet is for some of us a great way forward in helping to reduce BG levels.Once you get those under control, in time, the rest will naturally follow.

I hope and pray you found this of some comfort
Po

Thank you to everybody that commented on this post.
Po
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
Hi Po, hoping the day is finding you well. Thank you for such a detailed reply, it must have taken you ages to type, I found your story fascinating Po, truly grateful for sharing the details. You're more brave than I. Funny enough they gave me antibiotics as soon as I went to resus.

My mission is to keep my diabetes under control, my cardiologist was candid about my outlook with heart failure AND diabetes, he said the best thing I can do for my heart is control diabetes.

I'm sure many have heard of the XPERT course for diabetics. Its half day session for 8 weeks. They trained us to eat carbs and abandon diets of any kind. They talked about what they called ' The eat well plate' 1/3rd carbs, 1/3rd protein and 1/3rd veg (fruit included). So I have baby potatoes in skins which you can buy preprepared at supermarkets and they are scrummy. Portion control was discussed, sugar free foods, diabetic marketed foods and a partridge in a pear tree.. The course was excellent but polarised views on carbs to what I read on hear. They gave as a glossy book to take away with pictures on different meals as they would look on your plate. I followed it to the letter for 6 months and my Hba1C came down to 40 so technically in remission, I was so delighted.

I don't understand why the xpert course pushed us to this balanced eat well plate and changed all our views on carbs (all the delegates were trying and failing to low carb) - this forum, which is an ever flowing font of knowledge for me, tells me to low carb low carb.

Has anyone any views on this polorised view on carbs? All I know at the moment is no matter what I eat, I can't get my bgs below 10. I had three stents so less likely to have another MI and more likely to have a stroke unless I can control my sugar, yes I'm panicking, I can't have a stroke - I'd have to take care of business if I did. BTW my nickname is "Q" , not James Bond more like Brooke Bond. Qx

Q You will find a stack of information here about LCHF I did not know what that even was a couple of months ago.
Now I can not sing its praises loud enough.

I do not yet know what next HbA1c is going to be... however I am fairly certain it will have more than halved in the last two months. I have not been hungry once in this time. I have found that I feel so much brighter, more energy, more drive, more libido. + NO more insulin!

If I could Q may I strongly urge you to look seriously at meditation.

Please trust me when I say, it will have a profound effect on your well-being!

I have added a couple of video links here somewhere on site that will give you some insight. I will see if I can find the link for you.

Have a read of my profile it may give you some reassurance that I am NOT a new age hippy freak... well perhaps I am a little bit. What I am not is one of the love and light brigade dressed in purple and full of new age clap trap and nonsense.

Love and light (just kidding)
Po. Walking the mystical path with practical feet.
 
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Q007

Well-Known Member
Messages
466
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
People who tell lies.
My GP (Dr Doom).
Q You will find a stack of information here about HFLC I did not know what that even was a couple of months ago.
Now I can not sing its praises loud enough.

I do not yet know what next HbA1C is going to be... however I am fairly certain it will have more than halved in the last two months. I have not been hungry once in this time. I have found that I feel so much brighter, more energy, more drive, more libido. + NO more insulin!

If I could Q may I strongly urge you to look seriously at meditation.

Please trust me when I say, it will have a profound effect on your well-being!

I have added a couple of video links here somewhere on site that will give you some insight. I will see if I can find the link for you.

Have a read of my profile it may give you some reassurance that I am NOT a new age hippy freak... well perhaps I am a little bit. What I am not is one of the love and light brigade dressed in purple and full of new age clap trap and nonsense.

Love and light (just kidding)
Po. Walking the mystical path with practical feet.
Fabulous response, I'm listening to you loud and clear. I only have a few moments I'm actually off the the see the GP (PATIENT PREVENTION OFFICER) and then its my diabetic review this afternoon. I've seen her before and plan to bring all the new stuff to the review I've read from the replies on here. I will read your reply again as its worthy of it, when I get back. I'll message you then. Must dash chat later, hope you're well. Q (Q is my nickname, no one ever gets Quentin right) lol..
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
Fabulous response, I'm listening to you loud and clear. I only have a few moments I'm actually off the the see the GP (PATIENT PREVENTION OFFICER) and then its my diabetic review this afternoon. I've seen her before and plan to bring all the new stuff to the review I've read from the replies on here. I will read your reply again as its worthy of it, when I get back. I'll message you then. Must dash chat later, hope you're well. Q (Q is my nickname, no one ever gets Quentin right) lol..
Today is the start of you taking full control of YOU!
The fun is just about to start my friend.
Po
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
Cut and pasted... from my Blog

Who am I ?

Master Po.

So who am I?
I am male, married,
5ft 8in 10st 4lb

Perfect BMI!

I am known by my friends and followers by my pen name ‘Po’ an abbreviation of Poemagraphic.
I live in the UK in North Norfolk. I have been writing poetry since the early eighties.

I have made a life study and practice of meditation, which I began after becoming only the fourth person in the UK to attain a black belt in the Korean martial art of Hap-Ki-Do.
I am also a Forth Degree Reiki Master Practitioner.

I have studied parapsychology for over forty years, going on to appear on BBC ‘Look East Live’ and having in the past my own weekly radio phone in and talk show on ‘Future FM’. I was also a regularly contributor to the ‘Paranormal Norfolk’ magazine.

I am both psychic and mediumistic. I have in the past conducted literally hundreds of private consultations and undertaken ‘serious’ paranormal investigations throughout East Anglia over the last few decades.

My experiences have been a great source of inspiration for much of my poetry, which I enjoy with a passion

I am currently working in Forensics

The three words that best describe my personality are
1 Outgoing
2 Easy going
3 Friendly

My tastes in music are quite eclectic
I enjoy Motown/Soul, Country, Folk.
I love ‘Passenger’ The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Simon and Garfunkel, Elvis, Brad Paisley

I also greatly enjoy caravanning and camping getting away whenever and wherever I can.

I love cycling, photography, yoga, martial arts.

So here it is my new found friends, my bio and first first Blog posting.

Po
 
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Kel45do

Newbie
Messages
2
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Evening everyone, I hope today has found you well. Haven't been on here for a few years, some questions if I can.

I got my Hba1C down to 40 through diet. Last week, I get an urgent call from GP to come straight over. My Hba1C was 101, cholesterol up from 3.9 to 5.5, triglycerides up to to 5.5. What would make this giant leap and is it truly dangerous.

I was put on metformin had a very bad reaction so had to stop. Is it worth trying a similar drug or they all the same.

Was given a machine, strips and told to monitor 3 times a day. Can't stop the spiking 15.5 after a sensible meal, lowest after night fast is 9.2, why?

It all went wrong for me last Thursday, I felt unwell, my bp had dropped very low pulse was high. Taken to hospital where I deteriorated very quickly, oxygen SATs v low, bp dropped further, breathing laboured, QTC prolonged to 550ms and bg 10.5. So I spent 8 hours in resus and 2 days in hospital and released with no diagnosis. I should say I have heart failure so not the best combination with diabetes.

I'd be so truly grateful if anyone can give me any answers to all or just some of my symptoms. I think if I hadn't had resus intervention I would have lost consciousness because that's how I felt. Never felt like that before, never fainted or passed out before, so scary.

Thank you in advance, kind regards Quentin.

Hey Quentin

Hope your feeling much better.

I am T2 also and was diagnosed in 2008. I had everything under diet control until 2016 when I also passed out and fell ill with sepsis and was hospitalised for over 2 months. At the same time my blood sugar spiked dangerously high.
Fully recovered now but was put on Metformin which immediately which didn’t agree with me initially but eventually settled.
As it hate taking any kind of medicine I am currently doing 16:8 intermittent fasting to see if it had the healing impact it is proposed to have on T2 diabetics. I’m only only in my 2nd week of 16:8 but lost 3lbs in body fat in my first week.
I’m due my 6 monthly check at the end of June, so hoping I can come off the medicine if the 16:8 lifestyle works.

Hope you get things sorted and find your answers.

Paul
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
The old adage 'You are what you eat' is so true.

Not all diets/ways of eating suit everybody. With the advantage of a 'BG meter' we can see from hour to hour the impact of what we have ingested, has on us, and how long it lasts. I feel this is a good way to keep track daily of how different foods effect us. I would go so far as to say it is 100% essential . How else could we know this very important factor in our well-being?

I decided to try Low Carb High Fat not as a means to lose weight (In fact I have not actually lost any weight at all in the last two months of eating this way). I am currently keeping my carb intake below 50g a day. This might not be suitable for every 'body'

Let how 'you' feel, be your judge. If you feel it detrimental in any way then you have the power to stop or increase your carb intake. Don't try to go to low to quickly I would say.

My DN told me to eat around 60g of carbs per meal. Include plenty of rice, pasta, potatoes, bread etc. I did NOT try and dissuade her from this (Her teaching was all she had to go on... which several of us here know from experience, to be perhaps not the best advice to give a diabetic).

Members of this site are strongly advised/told not to advise on medical matters (with good reason) and I am not advocating any of us every should.
I trust Q you have come back today with some good sound advice (unlike my own experience) and feel prepared for the changes that you have to make. My experience was life changing for me. You have the power to change your life TODAY and every day from this moment forward. You/we always have had! Perhaps along life's journey we just simply forgot this fact.

I wish you every success in your endeavour
Po
 
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poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'
Hey Quentin

Hope your feeling much better.

I am T2 also and was diagnosed in 2008. I had everything under diet control until 2016 when I also passed out and fell ill with sepsis and was hospitalised for over 2 months. At the same time my blood sugar spiked dangerously high.
Fully recovered now but was put on Metformin which immediately which didn’t agree with me initially but eventually settled.
As it hate taking any kind of medicine I am currently doing 16:8 intermittent fasting to see if it had the healing impact it is proposed to have on T2 diabetics. I’m only only in my 2nd week of 16:8 but lost 3lbs in body fat in my first week.
I’m due my 6 monthly check at the end of June, so hoping I can come off the medicine if the 16:8 lifestyle works.

Hope you get things sorted and find your answers.

Paul

Paul keep us updated how you get on at the end of June. Good luck my friend.
Po
 

poemagraphic

Well-Known Member
Messages
689
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
WIFI, Mobile phones. Smart metres... in fact anything 'smart'

Listlad

BANNED
Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Has anyone any views on this polorised view on carbs?

I do. I am trying to go about resolving it a surgery level. This came up today at my local PPG meeting, as in are all of the GPS at the local surgery singing with one voice on LCHF as a means to reversing T2 diabetes.
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I do. I am trying to go about resolving it a surgery level. This came up today at my local PPG meeting, as in are all of the GPS at the local surgery singing with one voice on LCHF as a means to reversing T2 diabetes.

Are they LCHF (low carb high fat) or are they low carb without the high fat bit? It would be very interesting indeed if they were up for high fat. Even Dr. Unwin steers clear of this in his presentatiions.
 
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Listlad

BANNED
Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Are they LCHF (low carb high fat) or are they low carb without the high fat bit? It would be very interesting indeed if they were up for high fat. Even Dr. Unwin steers clear of this in his presentatiions.
The degree of high fat appears to be a source of disagreement. I wrote something up on that in a thread of mine some weeks back. But low carb as I have seen so far. I need to drill down further to see what others say. There are umpteen of them. I am hoping they all think low carb.

One of them doesn’t think much at all though. I found him pathetically useless. It takes all sorts I suppose. I have been given the suggestion of approaching the practice manager to ascertain the practice stance as a whole.

I do know that my preferred GP gave me the big thumbs up on my progress and how I achieved it.