Type 2 Reversing type 2

[woollygal]

When they say you reverse type 2 what does that actually mean?
Does it mean only if you stick to the diet that got you back into normal figures.

Or does it mean you can eat anything and you won’t get high numbers again just normal? Obviously with this one risk of getting it again increases.

 

[Member496333]

In my view you can’t eat “normally” again anymore than you ever could. You got diabetes once so you can eventually get it again. However, I’m one of those who believes that if a clinical diagnosis of diabetes cannot be made, and you are not medicated, then you don’t currently have diabetes. An intolerance to carbohydrate is not diabetes, and no one would question whether or not someone without diabetes should eat more carbohydrate just to be sure.

Diabetes (T2) is a symptom.

 

[Guzzler]

Basically it means that as long as you stick to an appropriate way of eating that all symptoms return to normal, all markers return to normal and all risks return to normal. But a return to a normal western way of eating means a return to poor prognosis.

 

[woollygal]

So you never really get rid of it you just manage it and keep it under control?

 

[Tophat1900]

Reversing is getting bg levels back into non-diabetic levels. Normal and keeping them there. If you go back to eating anything, you will go back to square one, not something you'd want to do.

 

[Member496333]

So you never really get rid of it you just manage it and keep it under control?

In my opinion, no. If it’s gone then it’s gone. It cannot be diagnosed. No hyperglycaemia and no hyperinsulinemia equals no diabetes. If it did, then someone who had it, had it from birth. That’s probably a matter of perspective, but I take the position that T2DM isn’t something you “catch” and then have for life. It’s a symptom of excessive insulin circulation, which in itself is a condition accumulated over decades of eating a diet incompatible with the biology you were born with.

Speaking only for myself, I know for a fact that I do not currently have diabetes, but I am aware that I may get it again if I revert to a way of eating that necessitates excessive insulin secretion. But since this is never going to happen, it’s moot. I like to frame it as “life isn’t a carbohydrate eating competition”. It’s a non-essential macronutrient, so whether or not I choose to consume it is irrelevant as it pertains to what might happen if I do.

Others take a different view and that is fine if it works for them.

 

[kokhongw]

Not so different from smoking and alcoholism...

 

[Squire Fulwood]

So you never really get rid of it you just manage it and keep it under control?

Exactly. There was once a debate on here on this very topic and the result was that there is no cure for Type 2 diabetes and could be referred to as "Controlled" if you maintain normal numbers. To my limited knowledge no-one has ever reported going back to their old lifestyle with impunity.

 

[Guzzler]

So you never really get rid of it you just manage it and keep it under control?

I think that you can do more than just manage it. Although you can never just dismiss it you can, by learning about it, actually end up in even better health than you were before.

In learning from members (and Mods) here about how to manage my Diabetes I have improved other aspects of my physical and mental health. I know more about my own body now than I ever did before and that includes things outside of nutrition.

 

[Member496333]

I think that you can do more than just manage it. Although you can never just dismiss it you can, by learning about it, actually end up in even better health than you were before.

In learning from members (and Mods) here about how to manage my Diabetes I have improved other aspects of my physical and mental health. I know more about my own body now than I ever did before and that includes things outside of nutrition.

Darn tootin’

I’m way healthier now than I ever was, and although we can never know our fate, I feel for sure that I’ll outlive myself in the parallel universe where I was never diagnosed. I am genuinely glad that I’ve had the opportunity to massively improve my physical and mental wellbeing. I definitely wouldn’t turn the clock back to the beginning and wander through life eating the standard western diet, feeling “ok”.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

When they say you reverse type 2 what does that actually mean?
Does it mean only if you stick to the diet that got you back into normal figures.

Or does it mean you can eat anything and you won’t get high numbers again just normal? Obviously with this one risk of getting it again increases.

For me, it just means that while I have good control of my bloodsugars, no medication and no complications, I am still diabetic. That is to say, I remain carb intolerant, and if I go face-first into a cake and suck it down, my bloodsugars will hit the statosphere. Being a-symptomatic because of my diet hasn't magically cured me, (Sorry Jim, have to disagee with you on semantics here, but that's about all, and I do see your point), but if I stick with this diet I am not going to suffer the same complications my familymembers did, some of which were lethal, to a point where there's only one diabetic left in my family other than myself, and she's pretty far gone, alas. Loss of limbs, kidneyfaillure, livercirrosis, heartfaillure, ruptured aorta, neuropathy etc... I could walk under a bus tomorrow, but I feel fairly safe in stating T2 isn't going to kill me any time soon. If I ever end up in a nursing home where I don't have a say in my diet I'll kick the bucket right-quick though. But here's to hoping. So, to me.... It's just being really well-controlled through diet, permanently, and avoiding nastiness that way. I don't expect to ever be on speaking terms with birthday cake again. (And I strangely don't mind all that much...)

 

[Member496333]

...Sorry Jim, have to disagee with you on semantics here...

No need to apologise. You’re perfectly entitled to disagree. Whatever works for the individual. I’ll bookend my opinion though by saying that there is no way any doctor who does not have access to my medical history could diagnose me with diabetes. Therefore I do not have it. I can’t speak for others

 

[woollygal]

So say like I had reversed it but then had fish and chips as a one off like I did at weekend and hit a 12, would that still happen if it was reversed? Or would my numbers never go that bad again? If a one off

 

[Guzzler]

So say like I had reversed it but then had fish and chips as a one off like I did at weekend and hit a 12, would that still happen if it was reversed? Or would my numbers never go that bad again? If a one off

If you improve your insulin sensitivity then it is possible as a one off but what would you gain from that one off?
I have found that the foods that I used to miss and used to see as a treat just do not have that BlissCall or pleasure that I thought they had.

 

[woollygal]

If you improve your insulin sensitivity then it is possible as a one off but what would you gain from that one off?
I have found that the foods that I used to miss and used to see as a treat just do not have that BlissCall or pleasure that I thought they had.

Nothing to be gained just curious.

 

[Tophat1900]

If you improve your insulin sensitivity then it is possible as a one off but what would you gain from that one off?
I have found that the foods that I used to miss and used to see as a treat just do not have that BlissCall or pleasure that I thought they had.

Yeah, I can walk down the lolly isle or cereal isle and nothing appeals to me. Not the slightest interest or desire to eat the junk I used to eat, but it does take time to get this point. At first it is difficult.

 

[ert]

When I was first diagnosed two years ago I thought remission meant your carbohydrate intolerance was cured. How little I knew.
HbA1c level of 48mmol/mol (6.5%) or less, without the help of medication, is defined as remission (for T2 which I still hope I am. My specialist says if I can stay off insulin for 4 years he will change my diagnosis.) I did achieve this level after three months and I even came off Metformin for a while. But it's not an easy ride and there's no way I feel like I'm in remission. I just feel overly obsessed with diet, exercise, body fat and blood glucose, like an athlete in training for a big event with the event being avoiding insulin and the complications of diabetes.

 

[Guzzler]

Yeah, I can walk down the lolly isle or cereal isle and nothing appeals to me. Not the slightest interest or desire to eat the junk I used to eat, but it does take time to get this point. At first it is difficult.

Totally. The first three months was blummin' hard but it does get easier. Unlearning a lifetime's habits doesn't happen overnight.

 

[bulkbiker]

When they say you reverse type 2 what does that actually mean?
Does it mean only if you stick to the diet that got you back into normal figures.

Or does it mean you can eat anything and you won’t get high numbers again just normal? Obviously with this one risk of getting it again increases.

The phrase "reversed diabetes" is slowly being phased out and has been removed from virtually all the Newcastle Diet literature. They now talk about "remission" which is where the NHS as a whole seem to be. So maybe look at it that way.
If you got ill by eating certain foods regularly then you are unlikely to get as ill by eating them as a one off meal (although you may well react more to them than you did beforehand) . So the question should be why would I want to poison myself like I used to when I can eat really well without that poison maybe?
Its all a bit of a mind game and I fear you may setting yourself up to fail by looking at things that you used to eat and wondering if you may still be able to once "in remission".
In your shoes I'd concentrate on getting to the "in remission" stage then seeing what you feel like eating?

 

[Member496333]

I feel that a lot of this divided opinion probably boils down to whether or not the individual feels deprived and has a desire to “reintroduce” the foods that resulted in diabetes in the first instance. If one feels deprived then they’re probably more inclined to hold the view that they are “in control” against their wishes. Still addicted to carbohydrate in a similar manner to a recovering alcoholic. Whereas those who have found their groove and love their new way of eating are possibly more likely to shrug it off as something they used to have and won’t get again.