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Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Fairygodmother said:
There are quite a few. My own son-in-law has been isolating while my daughter awaits a test result: he’s a headmaster. He also had to isolate when my grandson was ill. So far he, and my grandsons, have missed two weeks of this term. They’re not the only ones.

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...-fully-open-quadruples?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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There are 124 teachers off work in my son's school not because they are too ill to work but because they have a minor symptom, can't get a test or have to self-isolate for fear of PHE closing the school down.
At the beginning of term it is a well known thing that kids pass on colds or the flu (not yet thankfully given its similarity of symptoms compared to Covid!).
So although schools are trying to keep open I can imagine it is a very stressful business for teachers and managers. It is also pretty stressful for pupils IMO!
 
HSSS said:
Bubbles don’t exist anymore. They only isolate those classed as contacts, ie within 2m. .gov guidance dated 15 sept.
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The children are in bubbles, meaning, they have to stay in their groups when they go outside.
 
Robinredbreast said:
The children are in bubbles, meaning, they have to stay in their groups when they go outside.
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I took a dog walk last night through two local parks.
There were over 100 kids there. All ages, two football games, girls walking arm in arm, groups of kids sitting round picnic tables sharing snacks, assorted snoggers and some younger kid hangers on.

Anyone who thinks that year bubbles and social bubbles are ‘functional’ and functioning is very, very wrong, and needs to get out and see kids in their natural habitat.
 
Brunneria said:
I took a dog walk last night through two local parks.
There were over 100 kids there. All ages, two football games, girls walking arm in arm, groups of kids sitting round picnic tables sharing snacks, assorted snoggers and some younger kid hangers on.

Anyone who thinks that year bubbles and social bubbles are ‘functional’ and functioning is very, very wrong, and needs to get out and see kids in their natural habitat.
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Yes, I have a seen few children out together, but my post is regrading bubbles within the school.
What children do when they get home and within the home can be an entirely different matter, especially if a parent isn't there.
Its akin to something like having an operation, everything goes well, health and safety measures were in place, but the patient can still get an infection or worse.
 
Robinredbreast said:
Yes, I have a few children out together, but my post is regrading bubbles within the school.
What children do when they get home and within the home can be an entirely different matter, especially if a parent isn't there.
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that is exactly what makes any bubbles in school time and on school property utterly worthless.
 
Brunneria said:
that is exactly what makes any bubbles in school time and on school property utterly worthless.
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I disagree, I don't see it as utterly worthless at all, what would happen if the school didn't put these measures into place, all hell would break loose and the school with possible closure.

My face mask or visor won't protect me 100%, but I still wear one and it may protect some, but certain;y not all.
 
Brunneria said:
I took a dog walk last night through two local parks.
There were over 100 kids there. All ages, two football games, girls walking arm in arm, groups of kids sitting round picnic tables sharing snacks, assorted snoggers and some younger kid hangers on.

Anyone who thinks that year bubbles and social bubbles are ‘functional’ and functioning is very, very wrong, and needs to get out and see kids in their natural habitat.
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It's a well known fact that; Youth has, is and will always be wasted on the young.
 
Robinredbreast said:
I disagree, I don't see it as utterly worthless at all, what would happen if the school didn't put these measures into place, all hell would break loose and the school with possible closure.

My face mask or visor won't protect me 100%, but I still wear one and it may protect some, but certain;y not all.
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Oh, I am fully in favour of personal PPE appropriate to the person and the situation, PPE should be worn as a precaution in a large number of situations.

However, children in schools are not wearing full PPE, and any mask use is so limited that it seems pointless, so a child who is put in a school year bubble, who then mixes with his/her own siblings at home, goes to play in the park with kids from different families, schools and year groups, plays sport, or has after school activities, is ‘bursting their bubble’ several times a day, and effectively merging all those bubbles into one big group with no differentiation.

Please keep wearing your PPE. If nothing else, it will hopefully reduce any viral load you receive.
 
Brunneria said:
I took a dog walk last night through two local parks.
There were over 100 kids there. All ages, two football games, girls walking arm in arm, groups of kids sitting round picnic tables sharing snacks, assorted snoggers and some younger kid hangers on.

Anyone who thinks that year bubbles and social bubbles are ‘functional’ and functioning is very, very wrong, and needs to get out and see kids in their natural habitat.
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I only have to look through my front window or unplug my ears to realise there are up to 12 children playing together on bikes and scooters outside on the road after school until dusk and at weekends. Children from at least 6 if not more households, some junior school age and some secondary school age, and different schools.
 
Only 11 per cent of people in the UK in contact with someone who has tested positive for Covid-19 are quarantining, and just 18 per cent of those who develop symptoms are self-isolating, according to new research from King’s College London.
https://www.ft.com/content/d214ef31-7a5c-4bb5-894f-17c7057ab999

The test & trace will therefore be a fat lot of use even if they get it working properly. If 82% of people even who have covid won't isolate, I can't see any hope of preventing a second wave. And if only 11% of contacts of covid sufferers will self isolate what hope have we of the test & trace system making much difference?
 
Robinredbreast said:
The children are in bubbles, meaning, they have to stay in their groups when they go outside.
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That may be true in some schools, and I wish it were in all schools, but there’s not always enough space even with staggered break times. I was in a supermarket yesterday and realised I’d mistimed my visit - I’d forgotten that some pupils now leave at 2.30. One or two children seemed to be all over the place, they had no idea of distancing.
In a secondary school staff will work across many bubbles when teaching their specialist subject.
It’s hard.
 
NicoleC1971 said:
I agree that lots of schools did work hard to make the situation work in stressful circumstances and I showed my appreciation to my children's teachers. They are state educated and do have space and laptops plus a parent on furlough to supervise. Not everyone is so fortunate hence the widening attainment gap that has been created.
In terms of educating the key workers' children I could not include that in examples of schools going back without illness spikes because there were few enough kids that they could do all the social distancing etc.
My point was and is that in spite of the worry about unsafe working environments for teachers, there is no evidence that this is the case.
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If that's the case then, are you saying it's ok to wait and wait and wait until the Teachers DO start dropping like flies and then present the 'evidence' as if they were reluctant guinea pigs? This pandemic is an unknown so facts & figures are coming out as it goes along. Surely the most responsible way is to try and get ahead of it all and the only way to do that is to try and predict potential outcomes and then minimise risk. Is it really too much to ask for educational environments to practise safety?
 
DCUKMod said:
Anyone resigning, then claiming constructive dismissal has a long road ahead of them to prove it, and I don't believe there is financial support whilst the battle ensues, so that could take much longer than the 3 months wait for UC. Yes, the claimant could end up with a bit more cash, but trust me, it is not an easy trip, and full of extreme stress.
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Hi DCUK, I agree in that previously claims under this concept would have been a nightmare but I do wonder whether it will be easier in today's climate, particularly around those people with health conditions who are forced to leave their jobs because of safety issues linked to Covid? It's certainly not easy to prove but the most recent case of a lady with type 1 suing an Employer successfully may well set a precedent. One things for sure there will be zillions of claims following all of this.
 
NicoleC1971 said:
c.
My point was and is that in spite of the worry about unsafe working environments for teachers, there is no evidence that this is the case.
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There has been plenty of evidence posted here supporting schools aren't safe. This a recent article: 'With coronavirus cases surging, 1500 schools infected and up to 25,000 teachers self-isolating, schools are frightening places to work in'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...-designed-covid-free-turning-hotbeds-disease/

A further example, NSW closed its schools for 10 weeks and their numbers have been down to 6 cases a day in the entire country of Australia. It was evidence-based science they followed that closed their schools.
 
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Fairygodmother said:
That may be true in some schools, and I wish it were in all schools, but there’s not always enough space even with staggered break times. I was in a supermarket yesterday and realised I’d mistimed my visit - I’d forgotten that some pupils now leave at 2.30. One or two children seemed to be all over the place, they had no idea of distancing.
In a secondary school staff will work across many bubbles when teaching their specialist subject.
It’s hard.
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t's true not all schools do their upmost to keep their pupils and staff safe. Schools vary in size, the school I go to is for SEN children, which is smaller than a mainstream school, but can cause even more problems because of their challenging/behavioural conditions.
I hope you are keeping well FG.
 
Youngsters walk past my front door on the way to school and also on the way home not a few but loads of them very little social distancing in evidence and nary a mask in sight the pavement outside my house is very narrow if I am outside my house it is impossible for me to keep my distance so I have to stay inside when school is about to start and when they leave school until what seems like several hundred teenagers have passed by.
 
DCUKMod said:
Yes, I have heard of constructive dismissal, however, where I see the difference (and of course, I am a lay person with limited information in this instance) is that several parties have confirmed the employer in this case is following guidelines.

Anyone resigning, then claiming constructive dismissal has a long road ahead of them to prove it, and I don't believe there is financial support whilst the battle ensues, so that could take much longer than the 3 months wait for UC. Yes, the claimant could end up with a bit more cash, but trust me, it is not an easy trip, and full of extreme stress.

At the end of the day, it seems Max has to spin the wheel of risk versus reward.

One end point would be that max has stated a few times he would like to go back to this employer once the COVID problem has passed. My opinion would be that if he does elect to sue his employed for constructive dismissal, the prospect of that body re-employing him would be minimal to zero.

Anyway, I'm out of this. I have no skin in the game
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Woah, woah, woah where did this come from,,,, where on the thread have I insinuated that I would sue my employer?>>?? No, no, no, the last people on earth I have a problem with in this situation are my employers. If the guidelines don't keep me safe then that's not the schools fault, they are doing everything correctly by Government guidelines. It's the government guidelines that aren't keeping me and others safe in schools NOT the school per se, or at least my school. So no idea where this idea has come from but suing my employer wouldn't even come into my thinking. They aren't doing anything wrong at all.

As for resigning and the tax payer paying for it, well what other options do I have? I've discussed work from home opportunities with my employer, and the nature of the job means no work from home is available at the moment because Government guidelines don't advise it for schools. Nearly everywhere else but not in schools. I've contacted my MP to ask what they are doing to help the vulnerable (the government says we are vulnerable remember) and it's been several months and she is "still" waiting on a response from the Department of Health and Social Care months on. GP's hands are tied and we have very much been left on our own so I have done everything I can possibly do to stay in my job but be safe but no support for that option is forthcoming.

As I have also said it's not just the risk of catching Covid. With masks worn by staff and my hearing impairment I cannot hear properly so I am unable to do my job at the standard required by both me and probably the school. What if a child is in danger and I don't hear the call?! What if I am in danger and don't hear a shout?! That in itself becomes a health and safety issue which in normal times isn't a problem but it is now. It's very likely that in a month or two if I have avoided Covid that I may get a call saying I no longer can perform my job to the required standard and that was echoed in a conversation with my line manager today. She agreed with my concerns on that,. I want the opportunity of coming back in the future to perform the role as I can if they will have me. The chances of that are lower if my performance diminishes due to current circumstances. If I get sacked I'll still be in the same position options wise.

Found out today that two of the four staff who have been off this week have Covid. No idea what is happening as I wasn't in today,,,,so,,,,considering that news do I stumble on blindly with a rabbit's foot in my pocket for the next six months or more or do I do something proactive to safeguard myself, considering it's us who have been left to our own devices.

The last thing I want to do is go on Universal Credit. I've explored every single other option available. I have two choices left. Stay and risk it or go and stay as safe as I can do which at least will be in my control, that's it. If I go, for only the second time in my life I'll be on benefits. If I stay yopu never know but that the tax payer may be picking up the bill for my stay in hospital anyway!! At least I'll be doing it legally unlike those who claimed Furlough fraudulently or the Government throwing away millions on Furlough by mistake.

I'll refrain from posting any more updates from my chat's with CAB and DWP. If anyone would like to know the outcome of todays chats for their own benefit PM me and I'll forward if it will help you,
 
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