Sorry for posting moderator - I answered Lucy's question directly without coming back to the thread first so hadn't seen your request not to discuss metformin & other drugs.
You go from overweight into the normal weight BMI category which is where I am now. Round about the middle. Not straight from overweight to underweight. Without lab style tests unavailable to ordinary people, there is absolutely no way of telling when you have reached your Personal Fat Threshold other than a normal OGT. Though FBG is a rough guide.
I am not aware that any of the Newcastle Diet studies performed OGT tests or had this mid-BMI weight as a target that was either passed or even recorded. Could you post a link to where this is shown to be a target of any of their studies?
No they didn't as far as I know. I was responding to Zand's question as to what I was aiming for myself, and where I was. Newcastle study did various technical insulin release measurements which, as I said in an earlier post, are obviously not available to ordinary people. Hence I have to test my success with an OGT which tells me how well I am coping with a standard 75 g carb load and can compare it with a scale saying where I am re normal/prediabetic and diabetic. Once it says I am in the "normal " range I shall conclude from that that I am no longer diabetic and therefore must have reached my Personal Fat Threshold and can stop dieting. PFT has nothing to do with BMI - indeed it is possible to have reached your PFT yet still remain obese, as Prof T has said a number of times. I spoke abut being mid normal BMI because Zand appeared to be suggesting that I was underweight, so I was just saying that I'm not, - anywhere near. Some people are opposed to Prof Taylor's diet because they wrongly think that it makes people underweight. It doesn't. Some even lose their T2 whilst remaining actually obese.
@zand asked if you are planning to continue dieting, even if it results in you being underweight. This is not the same thing as you are saying she said. I have not noticed anyone suggesting that the Newcastle Diet makes people underweight. They have expressed concerns about 1000 cals or less, if continued for more than 8 weeks, resulting in malnutrition and other bad health outcomes.
That OGTT is certainly one that is not easily able to be carried out in the kitchen sink at home. Not sure what the arginine infusion does to the equations, and it is not explained in the test method. May be a tracer for either MRI or mass spectrometer. Difficult to correlate the plots to the results since the only reference made is to Fig 2, with no subselect parameter to identify which plot applied.
Thank you for that. Most informative. I hadn't found that one. Yes, I think it is possible for some reason it takes a while after the diet has finished to get back to near normal beta cell function as would be demonstrated by a near normal OGT. "maximal rate of insulin secretion increased from 581 (480–811) pmol/min/m2 at baseline to 736 (542–998) pmol/min/m2 at 5 months, 942 (565–1,240) pmol/min/m2 at 12 months (P = 0.028 from baseline), . I am very much pinning my hopes on that, as after 3 months I have pretty disappointing FBG results. I am consoling myself that FBG is more of an indicator of liver fat loss. However I would have hoped to have had good liver fat loss as well by now. I am dreading finding out that I have left it too long and am now unable to reverse my T2. I can't bear the idea of having it for the rest of my life and potentially having to take drugs with unpleasant side effects. Once I have lost all the weight I safely can on Newcastle and reached my PFT, I would not have the scope to lose any more by doing low carb so it would have to be the dreaded metformin. I am truly happy for you to hear that you have "passed" your OGT .
I hope that all the success stories on here of controlling our type 2 diabetes for long periods of time through diet is reassuring to you. Would you share what your experience of low carbing for several months was? Maybe we can collectively find a bearable, even pleasant dietary way forward for you to remain drug free for a long time? I have been doing this for 9 years and enjoy my meals. It took a while to find my ideal food plan, and had lots of help from others on here. May we do the same for you?
Precisely none.. one of the trial exclusion criteria was use of insulin so far as I recall.
Agree. your insert declares exclusion of current insulin users at baseline as being one of the selection criteria. Does anyone know offhand if Dr. Unwin applied the same to his LC trials in Stockport?
By its very nature, at 850 calories a day, the Direct plan will be relatively low carb. Anyone know how many of those calories are carbs?
I know that Dr. Mosley had one of his TV 'patients' give up insulin on one of the TV programs, but not sure what the eventual outcome was. That was his 8 weeks blood sugar trial from what I remember which was LCal like ND
Thanks, that paper is one of his early studies of 154 patients with T2D. Some 6 participants were insulin users at baseline. The study does not really record the effects on glucose levels or insulin levels but is more interested in hypertension and cholesterol. Consequently, it does not show if any patients reduced or stopped any diabetic medication as a result, but hypertension and cholesterol drug reductions are reported.
