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OMAD / TMAD and macronutrients

finsit

finsit

Well-Known Member
Messages
331
Location
UK
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
That is my big confusion at this time when i am trying to establish a life-long routine to keep my BG worry free. I have managed very well so far, thanks to your valuable input. I was diagnosed at a1c of 78 in last Dec and now i am close to 30 and feeling 10 years younger.

I have found that TMAD (two meals a day) works best for me. I know some people do OMAD as well and i am sure that would work even better but i don't have the patience to do that as a lifestyle. I do TMAD twice a week, but i am trying to extend it to all days. My question is the people who do OMAD or TMAD, is there any nutrients that they lack based on their blood reports? Should then I increase my protein intake in those two meals to compensate for the missing 3rd meal or missing both other meals if on OMAD?

@bulkbiker i believe you do OMAD so your input is highly appreciated.
 
Hi there, I'm a OMAD person too and have been for several years (even prior to diabetes). I have no idea how much protein or nutrients or anything else I consume in that meal but my blood results have always been normal and not lacking in anything. My meal generally consists of veg/meat and some carbs, probably less than 100 carbs a day and on most days around 50. Now and again if I am going low or my insulin plays up and decides to randomly drop some out, I have a 15 carb snack but again that won't be providing any nutrition worth mentioning.
 
finsit said:
That is my big confusion at this time when i am trying to establish a life-long routine to keep my BG worry free. I have managed very well so far, thanks to your valuable input. I was diagnosed at a1c of 78 in last Dec and now i am close to 30 and feeling 10 years younger.

I have found that TMAD (two meals a day) works best for me. I know some people do OMAD as well and i am sure that would work even better but i don't have the patience to do that as a lifestyle. I do TMAD twice a week, but i am trying to extend it to all days. My question is the people who do OMAD or TMAD, is there any nutrients that they lack based on their blood reports? Should then I increase my protein intake in those two meals to compensate for the missing 3rd meal or missing both other meals if on OMAD?

@bulkbiker i believe you do OMAD so your input is highly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Not sure I can say that.. I usually snack on something at about 3-4 pm.. cold meat or cheese then have a main meal around 7 pm again usually meat with maybe a few berries with cream or similar for a "dessert''... some days I might do OMAD usually if away from home where its easier to just have one meal. I've never had any notification of nutrient deficiency in any blood work I've had..
I also eat quite a lot in my main meal.. yesterday for example was 725g of rump steak (pre cooked weight) followed by coffee with double cream and some 85% cocoa chocolate.
 
My mantra is “Get hungry, eat animal.”

I don’t worry about macros. For micronutrients I sometimes take beef liver capsules if I feel I’m not eating enough organs. That’s about it for me really.
 
I don't see anything wrong with having one meal a day if it suits you and you enjoy it but I don't see any inherent benefit either. I have seen it suggested that a long gap between meals means that insulin levels don't stay high all the time. If you are consuming the same daily total of carbs then it could be argued that having one big spike is worse than three small ones. I think sometimes there is that puritan idea that if you enjoy something it must be bad and medicine has to be unpleasant to be effective. Personally I am going to stick to three meals a day, as I like it and it doesn't seem to have done me any harm.
 
I have flip flopped between the OMAD and TMAD. I have settled on 2 meals a day for several reasons:

  1. OMAD meant I was too full after eating what effectively was 2 to 3 average size meals in one sitting
  2. TMAD offered better opportunity for me to get some of the theory of muscle protein synthesis
  3. TMAD has been better for me socially with the family
  4. TMAD has not increased my A1C, whilst I have still seen glucose improvements (fbg, post prandial with the confounder of resistance training % to cardio)
  5. I have noted that some who I trust the most who are in good metabolic health / body composition do TMAD - Brian Sanders, Dr Ted Naimen, Luis Villasenor
I was concerned that I would not be able to get the entire spectrum of differing foods on OMAD that I like; when I look at my food pictures I noticed that I was missing liver, avocado, greens, prawns etc. All of my weight lifting pr's have been achieved on OMAD, so it is a lifestyle and opportunity thing for me to currently do TMAD, with a view of over time changing my meal size from 1.5 to 2 plates per meal to 1 to 1.5.
 
Interesting. Do you guys drink anything with cream in between meals/in the mornings ? like tea or coffee with cream? or any other drinks that won't affect Insulin?

I can eat eggs on daily basis and that's what i do for my breakfast. So, im thinking maybe delaying bf to 1-2 pm and then having a meal around 7 with protein of about 50 gms ? Should that be good enough ? Definitely some veggies in both meals.
 
finsit said:
Interesting. Do you guys drink anything with cream in between meals/in the mornings ? like tea or coffee with cream? or any other drinks that won't affect Insulin?

I can eat eggs on daily basis and that's what i do for my breakfast. So, im thinking maybe delaying bf to 1-2 pm and then having a meal around 7 with protein of about 50 gms ? Should that be good enough ? Definitely some veggies in both meals.
Click to expand...
I think you may find some do and some don't. I believe many would tey bullet proof coffee for example and like it / incorporate into their routine. I prefer black filter coffee as I prefer my dairy via yogurts and cheese.

I believe in a hybrid of the carbohydrate insulin and calories in calories out model, based on age / hormones and food selection. In the context of cream in tea or coffee, I would see this as a treat, as it is expensive calorie wise if you were like me and liked volume; but on the other hand if this was effectively the first "meal" of the day, it would be quite cheap metabolically.

Whilst working I am using a make shift standing station in the garden.

I ate this morning at 09.15, which could and does become circa 11.00 is on some days, have done 50 pushup, 12 extra heavy band standing bench presses, 5 heavy band deadlifts, 10 extra heavy band bicep curls and a 25 minute dog walk.

There will be a short 15 minute walk and intensive 7 to 10 minutes of resistance training before 14.30.

I will eat again between 15.30 and 16.30 most days, or a close to when eating out.

I will do some further workout (will include resistance after dinner), maybe sauna later.

Might do 100 pulse squats whilst brushing teeth.

I find your questions fascinating as they cut through to stages many of us have gone through. Maybe you can produce over time a blog as to your findings.
 
finsit said:
Interesting. Do you guys drink anything with cream in between meals/in the mornings ?
Click to expand...

I drink coffee with just enough double cream to cover the bottom of the cup before pouring. My love affair with coffee is on/off and I’ll often go weeks or months with none at all. Obviously the cream is heavy in energy so technically may break a fast from a metabolic activity perspective, but personally I’ve never worried about it. I think Jason Fung, eminent fasting proponent, is of the view that less than than 50kcal probably has no effect.
 
Mbaker said:
I think you may find some do and some don't. I believe many would tey bullet proof coffee for example and like it / incorporate into their routine. I prefer black filter coffee as I prefer my dairy via yogurts and cheese.

I believe in a hybrid of the carbohydrate insulin and calories in calories out model, based on age / hormones and food selection. In the context of cream in tea or coffee, I would see this as a treat, as it is expensive calorie wise if you were like me and liked volume; but on the other hand if this was effectively the first "meal" of the day, it would be quite cheap metabolically.

Whilst working I am using a make shift standing station in the garden.

I ate this morning at 09.15, which could and does become circa 11.00 is on some days, have done 50 pushup, 12 extra heavy band standing bench presses, 5 heavy band deadlifts, 10 extra heavy band bicep curls and a 25 minute dog walk.

There will be a short 15 minute walk and intensive 7 to 10 minutes of resistance training before 14.30.

I will eat again between 15.30 and 16.30 most days, or a close to when eating out.

I will do some further workout (will include resistance after dinner), maybe sauna later.

Might do 100 pulse squats whilst brushing teeth.

I find your questions fascinating as they cut through to stages many of us have gone through. Maybe you can produce over time a blog as to your findings.
Click to expand...

@Mbaker thank you for explaining your routine. As always, you are spot on.

I thought during the first 3 months that i got everything under control and covered. I was following low-carb Dr. Bernstein and small portions (3 meals a day) and everything looks absolutely fine. My cravings for cream/sugar is my biggest issue. So i have been eating heavy creams with berries, clotted cream cakes, cream cheese sweets and so on. It was satiating as well as giving me my sugar treats on a daily basis. I could have continued and be happy ever after until my cholesterol results came in :) . Seems like i am LMHR (lean mass hyper responder) and probably my G6PD deficiency is making me sensitive to saturated fats and creating some issues in cholesterol absorption.

So now i am back to square one and trying to figure out what is my sat fat threshold where i can keep my cholesterol to a reasonable level while enjoying some of the foods i crave. FYI, my pre low-carb LDL was 3.5 and after three months of keto with high sat fat, it jumped to 9.5. I have been drinking a lot of double cream in my coffee tea too. Now in the last 2 months, i have found some alternative solutions (single cream instead of double cream and Arla lacto free cream chees instead of regular one), stopped clotted cream altogether. I think i have probably reduced my sat fat consumption to 50% as compared to my first three months. I need to get tested this month and see if that has at all affected my LDL?

Any advice?
 
Also I have started using plant based milk to make my tea/coffee white (soy and almond unsweetened) so this helps me even reduce the single cream usage in my cup. Any take on these plant based milk? I understand Soy may increase oestrogen in males but a cup or two cups a day (that has about 6% soy in the bottle) should not affect estrogen levels?
 
finsit said:
Interesting. Do you guys drink anything with cream in between meals/in the mornings ? like tea or coffee with cream? or any other drinks that won't affect Insulin?

I can eat eggs on daily basis and that's what i do for my breakfast. So, im thinking maybe delaying bf to 1-2 pm and then having a meal around 7 with protein of about 50 gms ? Should that be good enough ? Definitely some veggies in both meals.
Click to expand...

I start every day with a litre of cafetiere coffee in 2 mugs with 10 ml of double cream per mug.. then have another triple shot americano with another 10 ml of cream at about 11.30 (creature of habit!).

Eggy meal at 1-2 pm should be fine but I'd seriously doubt that 50g of protein would be anywhere near enough.. I average about 150g per day. Veg optional of course.
 
im small built (53 KGs) so with eggs and 50 gm protein i should be fine i guess. If i eat more protein BG stays strangled at 6 for long. 50 can be increased to 60 or 70 and that should do my needs. i am still not convinced with min protein recommendations though. I read that autophagy can bring in protein from mitochondrial recycling as well?
 
finsit said:
Any take on these plant based milk
Click to expand...
Water with some ground up nuts doesn't supply much in the way of nutrients and has little to no fat so won't provide much satiety either..
Personally I'd go for cream and do!
 
finsit said:
@Mbaker thank you for explaining your routine. As always, you are spot on.

I thought during the first 3 months that i got everything under control and covered. I was following low-carb Dr. Bernstein and small portions (3 meals a day) and everything looks absolutely fine. My cravings for cream/sugar is my biggest issue. So i have been eating heavy creams with berries, clotted cream cakes, cream cheese sweets and so on. It was satiating as well as giving me my sugar treats on a daily basis. I could have continued and be happy ever after until my cholesterol results came in :) . Seems like i am LMHR (lean mass hyper responder) and probably my G6PD deficiency is making me sensitive to saturated fats and creating some issues in cholesterol absorption.

So now i am back to square one and trying to figure out what is my sat fat threshold where i can keep my cholesterol to a reasonable level while enjoying some of the foods i crave. FYI, my pre low-carb LDL was 3.5 and after three months of keto with high sat fat, it jumped to 9.5. I have been drinking a lot of double cream in my coffee tea too. Now in the last 2 months, i have found some alternative solutions (single cream instead of double cream and Arla lacto free cream chees instead of regular one), stopped clotted cream altogether. I think i have probably reduced my sat fat consumption to 50% as compared to my first three months. I need to get tested this month and see if that has at all affected my LDL?

Any advice?
Click to expand...
I would make sure the low hanging fruit so to speak is covered i.e.the risk factors that have a higher proven link to heart disease:
  1. Obesity - I would ensure my lean mass to fat mass is as optimized as I could handle
  2. Diabetes - I would have as good control as possible
  3. Smoking - If I smoked I would stop immediately
  4. Hypertension - I would naturally lower this
  5. High Insulin - I would do what is required to minimise basal and excretion
  6. Oxidative Stress / Stress - I would remove foods that promote OS and incorporate meditation / sauna / relationships and quality sleep

For foods:

I have these everyday or most:
blueberries
strawberries
lemons (esperidin,diosmin)

I have these reasonably regularly
avocado (oleic acid l-glutathione)

raw garlic clove

I have these everyday (the nuts):
Nuts and seeds (Fenugreek, Coriander

Other:
okra
broccoli
psyllium husk

green tea

There's my input.
 
Mbaker said:
I would make sure the low hanging fruit so to speak is covered i.e.the risk factors that have a higher proven link to heart disease:
  1. Obesity - I would ensure my lean mass to fat mass is as optimized as I could handle
  2. Diabetes - I would have as good control as possible
  3. Smoking - If I smoked I would stop immediately
  4. Hypertension - I would naturally lower this
  5. High Insulin - I would do what is required to minimise basal and excretion
  6. Oxidative Stress / Stress - I would remove foods that promote OS and incorporate meditation / sauna / relationships and quality sleep

For foods:

I have these everyday or most:
blueberries
strawberries
lemons (esperidin,diosmin)

I have these reasonably regularly
avocado (oleic acid l-glutathione)

raw garlic clove

I have these everyday (the nuts):
Nuts and seeds (Fenugreek, Coriander

Other:
okra
broccoli
psyllium husk

green tea

There's my input.
Click to expand...
Thanks makes sense. Regarding the risk factors Im good at all ends except for OS. Not because of food but because of my G6PD deficiency where your OS increases more than an average person's OS. I try not to eat food that increases OS but that's how far i can go. Thanks for sharing.

I don't see either coffee or cream in your menu at all or any sweets or its just the berries?
 
Jim Lahey said:
My mantra is “Get hungry, eat animal.”

I don’t worry about macros. For micronutrients I sometimes take beef liver capsules if I feel I’m not eating enough organs. That’s about it for me really.
Click to expand...


just curious
do you mainly eat just animals and the products made from them?
 
bulkbiker said:
Not sure I can say that.. I usually snack on something at about 3-4 pm.. cold meat or cheese then have a main meal around 7 pm again usually meat with maybe a few berries with cream or similar for a "dessert''... some days I might do OMAD usually if away from home where its easier to just have one meal. I've never had any notification of nutrient deficiency in any blood work I've had..
I also eat quite a lot in my main meal.. yesterday for example was 725g of rump steak (pre cooked weight) followed by coffee with double cream and some 85% cocoa chocolate.
Click to expand...


im trying to do tmad with the goal of going omad
but its difficult transitioning to the omad
i like your idea of the snack then the meal
right now im doing them ( 2 meals) 4 hours apart
maybe go to a snack and a meal
then work on spacing until its just omad
then drop the snack?
 
cdpm said:
im trying to do tmad with the goal of going omad
but its difficult transitioning to the omad
i like your idea of the snack then the meal
right now im doing them ( 2 meals) 4 hours apart
maybe go to a snack and a meal
then work on spacing until its just omad
then drop the snack?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a plan.. see if it works for you.
 
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