Why can I eat chocolate but not carbs? :-s

[Donought]

Hi-

I've posted on the forum a while back whilst in the early stages of trying to find out what is wrong as most GP's are more or less useless. Since then I have been diagnosed as insulin resistant, which I have reversed with diet, however, I suspect I never actually was IR. On the upside I have lost 10kg, fasting BG hovers between 4.6 - 5.8 but it seems I am insulin sensitive according to my HOMA-IR.

BG - 4.7
Insulin - 3.61. (range is 2.6 - 24.9) so at the low end.

All good but that doesn't explain why when I eat a slice of steak pie my BG is at 8nmol at 60 mins and 8.5 nmol at 120mins. Surely if I was insulin sensitive I would be back under 8 by 2hrs.

The search continued and via the Dr Bikman facebook group I was directed to the HOMA 2 calculator - you need to download it from this website - https://www.dtu.ox.ac.uk/homacalculator/

Then read in conjunction with this series of blogs https://www.optimaldx.com/blog/homa2-calculator

it helps explain my IR or lack thereof.

%B - Beta cell production - mine is low 64% ('normal' is 100)

%S - insulin sensitivity - mine is super high 215% ('normal' is 100)

IR - .47 ('normal' is 1)

Those numbers suggest reactive hypoglycemia, which fits my symptoms for the most part but does not explain the eating of the pie. Also, I can eat chocolate and rarely spike in fact, sometimes if I am not coming down I eat chocolate and my BG will fall.

I am now wondering whether my pancreas is just not producing enough insulin. Any ideas anyone?

@LammontD I know we are similar in our reactions, such as to lentils etc. but I'm struggling to differentiate and understand how I can be insulin sensitive when I am still high 2hrs later. I've had a few reactive episodes but as I'm keeping the carbs low (mostly ;-)) this is to be expected.

Cheers

 

[EllieM]

Just tagging @Lamont D for you, you've got a typo in his name in your post.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi-

I've posted on the forum a while back whilst in the early stages of trying to find out what is wrong as most GP's are more or less useless. Since then I have been diagnosed as insulin resistant, which I have reversed with diet, however, I suspect I never actually was IR. On the upside I have lost 10kg, fasting BG hovers between 4.6 - 5.8 but it seems I am insulin sensitive according to my HOMA-IR.

BG - 4.7
Insulin - 3.61. (range is 2.6 - 24.9) so at the low end.

All good but that doesn't explain why when I eat a slice of steak pie my BG is at 8nmol at 60 mins and 8.5 nmol at 120mins. Surely if I was insulin sensitive I would be back under 8 by 2hrs.

The search continued and via the Dr Bikman facebook group I was directed to the HOMA 2 calculator - you need to download it from this website - https://www.dtu.ox.ac.uk/homacalculator/

Then read in conjunction with this series of blogs https://www.optimaldx.com/blog/homa2-calculator

it helps explain my IR or lack thereof.

%B - Beta cell production - mine is low 64% ('normal' is 100)

%S - insulin sensitivity - mine is super high 215% ('normal' is 100)

IR - .47 ('normal' is 1)

Those numbers suggest reactive hypoglycemia, which fits my symptoms for the most part but does not explain the eating of the pie. Also, I can eat chocolate and rarely spike in fact, sometimes if I am not coming down I eat chocolate and my BG will fall.

I am now wondering whether my pancreas is just not producing enough insulin. Any ideas anyone?

@LammontD I know we are similar in our reactions, such as to lentils etc. but I'm struggling to differentiate and understand how I can be insulin sensitive when I am still high 2hrs later. I've had a few reactive episodes but as I'm keeping the carbs low (mostly ;-)) this is to be expected.

Cheers

Hi again @Donought,
So glad you have come back to let us know how you are coping.
Isn't it interesting how alike we are and how different in small amounts that even though we are weird in the same way, the differences are acute to just a degree!
I think the insulin resistance is a get out clause for the docs to try and explain, why at times, having a reading that doesn't equate to a diabetic is the same, any anomaly is easier to be given as IR, rather than go into the science or be totally ignorant of why we create too much insulin when the logical go to index of insulin response!
It's a bit of a lottery, which ingredients of food and how healthy we are has bearing on our hormonal response.
I myself can get no triggered response from fruit at times. Plain dark chocolate, 85% and above is good tho not too much with a portion of full fat Greek yoghurt, is splendid and so filling!
Oh but aren't you lactose intolerant?
Yes I am!
But yoghurt?
I have no idea, I just eat it and my blood levels stay normal!
Sometimes, it just doesn't make sense! But why argue or deny yourself something that your body can cope?
Or to put it another way, my tolerance to potatoes, wheat, oats, cheese is less than 5% of the total percentage value, whereas, rice and other carbs can be tolerated up to 10%!
So keep on experimenting, keep on recording looking for trends and anomalies.
The pie is very similar to the pizza issue! The crust should definitely spike you!, The meat is all protein but should not be enough to spike you further, the gravy, again shouldn't be too much, the fat off the meat should slow the digestion and lower the spike! But would it be enough?
Maybe, then you factor in portion size, and your pre pie reading.
Maybe a false reading or a bad strip?

That is why we double check odd readings!

Your insulin reading is low , even mine at one time was not that low!

Ask your endo if a gliptin might help you, I took part in a trial to see if januvia (sitagliptin) would help with your insulin response, as it did mine! There is a YouTube video made years ago about the same thing!
Key words on search, sitagliptin, reactive hypoglycaemia, I wish I could download or upload but being ancient (ish), I haven't a clue how!

Keep asking keep in touch!

You are doing great! Best wishes.

 

[Brunneria]

If you factor in the fat content of the steak pie and its pastry, and allow for the fact that fat is slow to digest, which slows down the release of the accompanying carbs into the blood stream, then your numbers after the pie are easily explained.

Likewise with chocolate, which has a high fat content, and results in a slower, lower peak than if the sugar in the chocolate was digested alone, without all the fat.

In my youth, I discovered this fact, and had a fine old time eating lots of lovely fat (chips instead of boiled potatoes, chocolate instead of candyfloss, icecream instead of meringue, etc). Of course, while this steadied my blood glucose nicely, and prevented all those RH wobbles, it also meant that the weight piled on.

Eventually the penny dropped that even smuggling carbs in under the cover of fat was still extremely problematic for my body and its deranged hormones, so I learned to avoid the carbs wherever I could - and felt much better for it.

Another thing that slows carb digestion is fibre, but of course, combining carbs and fibre is also a bit of a red herring, since all those carbs do, eventually, hit the blood stream, it just takes longer, and we all know the (sometimes dire) consequences of a high fibre diet, especially when we are not used to it...

 

[Donought]

Hi again @Donought,
So glad you have come back to let us know how you are coping.
Isn't it interesting how alike we are and how different in small amounts that even though we are weird in the same way, the differences are acute to just a degree!
I think the insulin resistance is a get out clause for the docs to try and explain, why at times, having a reading that doesn't equate to a diabetic is the same, any anomaly is easier to be given as IR, rather than go into the science or be totally ignorant of why we create too much insulin when the logical go to index of insulin response!
It's a bit of a lottery, which ingredients of food and how healthy we are has bearing on our hormonal response.
I myself can get no triggered response from fruit at times. Plain dark chocolate, 85% and above is good tho not too much with a portion of full fat Greek yoghurt, is splendid and so filling!
Oh but aren't you lactose intolerant?
Yes I am!
But yoghurt?
I have no idea, I just eat it and my blood levels stay normal!
Sometimes, it just doesn't make sense! But why argue or deny yourself something that your body can cope?
Or to put it another way, my tolerance to potatoes, wheat, oats, cheese is less than 5% of the total percentage value, whereas, rice and other carbs can be tolerated up to 10%!
So keep on experimenting, keep on recording looking for trends and anomalies.
The pie is very similar to the pizza issue! The crust should definitely spike you!, The meat is all protein but should not be enough to spike you further, the gravy, again shouldn't be too much, the fat off the meat should slow the digestion and lower the spike! But would it be enough?
Maybe, then you factor in portion size, and your pre pie reading.
Maybe a false reading or a bad strip?

That is why we double check odd readings!

Your insulin reading is low , even mine at one time was not that low!

Ask your endo if a gliptin might help you, I took part in a trial to see if januvia (sitagliptin) would help with your insulin response, as it did mine! There is a YouTube video made years ago about the same thing!
Key words on search, sitagliptin, reactive hypoglycaemia, I wish I could download or upload but being ancient (ish), I haven't a clue how!

Keep asking keep in touch!

You are doing great! Best wishes.

Thanks Lamont D. Always love your replies to questions although they often have me scurrying off to do more research. Indeed, as I was researching gliptin and other things I stumbled across some research about the HOMA-IR and the QUICKI....both equations/ calculators for insulin resistance.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/homa-ir#what-is-the-quicki-index

I input my numbers and the HOMA said no IR, the Quicki said - IR - don't you just love it. Research consensus seems divided over which is accurate/ sensitive.

Our bodies are fascinating....so strange you can eat the yoghurt but are lactose intolerant. I've noticed I'm similar in that milk seems to make me more inflamed/ mucus-y whereas yoghurt is just fine. Must be all those good bugs in the yoghurt.

I might pop into the LADA/ 1.5 room to see if anyone can shed some light on the low insulin. I saw a cardio specialist last year and on hearing all my symptoms her first response was "this is autoimmune".

Keep well!

 

[Donought]

If you factor in the fat content of the steak pie and its pastry, and allow for the fact that fat is slow to digest, which slows down the release of the accompanying carbs into the blood stream, then your numbers after the pie are easily explained.

Likewise with chocolate, which has a high fat content, and results in a slower, lower peak than if the sugar in the chocolate was digested alone, without all the fat.

In my youth, I discovered this fact, and had a fine old time eating lots of lovely fat (chips instead of boiled potatoes, chocolate instead of candyfloss, icecream instead of meringue, etc). Of course, while this steadied my blood glucose nicely, and prevented all those RH wobbles, it also meant that the weight piled on.

Eventually the penny dropped that even smuggling carbs in under the cover of fat was still extremely problematic for my body and its deranged hormones, so I learned to avoid the carbs wherever I could - and felt much better for it.

Another thing that slows carb digestion is fibre, but of course, combining carbs and fibre is also a bit of a red herring, since all those carbs do, eventually, hit the blood stream, it just takes longer, and we all know the (sometimes dire) consequences of a high fibre diet, especially when we are not used to it...

Thanks Brunneria, Isn't it a ****** when we have to finally admit we know what we know and now we have to act on it. Glad you're enjoying the carb free life. Me too.....

I agree, the fat must have been part of the slow burn but when I eat chocolate I'm up and down within 30 mins or sometimes not even up at all. I even sometimes eat chocolate if my blood sugar won't come down and hey presto, down it comes.

Interesting you mention the fibre and carbs...so true!!! Also, I was reading something about resistant starch improving insulin production/ response - I cooked some new potatoes to eat them cold but my teenage son demolished them all I will experiment this weekend. I don't particularly want to include carbs but if they're not going to affect BS and potentially help insulin then why not.

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks Lamont D. Always love your replies to questions although they often have me scurrying off to do more research. Indeed, as I was researching gliptin and other things I stumbled across some research about the HOMA-IR and the QUICKI....both equations/ calculators for insulin resistance.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/homa-ir#what-is-the-quicki-index

I input my numbers and the HOMA said no IR, the Quicki said - IR - don't you just love it. Research consensus seems divided over which is accurate/ sensitive.

Our bodies are fascinating....so strange you can eat the yoghurt but are lactose intolerant. I've noticed I'm similar in that milk seems to make me more inflamed/ mucus-y whereas yoghurt is just fine. Must be all those good bugs in the yoghurt.

I might pop into the LADA/ 1.5 room to see if anyone can shed some light on the low insulin. I saw a cardio specialist last year and on hearing all my symptoms her first response was "this is autoimmune".

Keep well!

Hi @Donought ,
Have you heard of something called glucose dumping? It has been found in people who have had stomach surgery, they still call it RH! It's more common than people think!
As well as those index you have mentioned, there is an insulin response index, but the problem with that was it was done on non diabetics with normal metabolism!
Did you look at those indexes, for the parameters and inclusion?

Do keep an eye on your gut biotics, there is a link between your brain and how the good bacteria and bad bacteria can lead to metabolic issues.
I will let you find out for yourself, but resistant starch and I have experimented, that a carb is a carb regardless of how you dress it up! It just lowers the readings minutely, and you can do that with portion size.
In the end, but you still need to find, it's about staying in normal levels continuously, to help with your health.
Stay safe!