Low carb diets and Diabetes UK

[Andy12345]

LOL i cant get my kids to listen to me, dont think DUK would, the only letters after my name are d.u.m.b.

 

[douglas99]

i thought your point was duk should be using us as case studies, thats what i was responding to but you seem to have made it a "i dont care what low carbers advocate" point, why would we expect anyone else to listen to our "good advice" when we dont agree

I was making the point that we should be used as studies, all of us, low carbers, and none low carbers. I've also said I don't care if low carbers don't like my diet.

I've never claimed I dislike low carbing, I don't do it, and wouldn't like to see it advocated for all though, as obviously my diet is proof others work.

I think we're the first generation with access to the knowledge, the way to measure, and decent recording and reporting facilities though, and we would provide a very good source of information for all types of diets that have been taken up by our generations, that other haven't been able to collect effective data from previously.

Then a detailed, effective diet can be decided.

 

[xyzzy]

Think that was party of the op, that duk are not conducting long term trials on this. Is it because that for some following the recommended diet would drastically reduce their original carb consumption and be alot healthier

There are many long term studies that show the duk regime is wrong. They claim to use evidence based science but ignore perfectly good evidence based science which they don't agree with.

You seem to be assuming people get fat because they overeat. That is a gross over simplification. There are countless reasons for weight gain and simply blaming overeating just continues the pretty offensive myth that it's "the food in your mouth" and nothing else. It stigmatises people as fat and lazy and does no one any good imo


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[noblehead]

LOL i cant get my kids to listen to me, dont think DUK would, the only letters after my name are d.u.m.b.

...........kids eh!!!!!!!!

 

[mrman]

There are many long term studies that show the duk regime is wrong. They claim to use evidence based science but ignore perfectly good evidence based science which they don't agree with.

You seem to be assuming people get fat because they overeat. That is a gross over simplification. There are countless reasons for weight gain and simply blaming overeating just continues the pretty offensive myth that it's "the food in your mouth" and nothing else. It stigmatises people as fat and lazy and does no one any good imo


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Not for all, SOME as I said. Do not mean to cause offence but the reality is for some that would apply, as I went on to say which you didn't quote me on.

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[Andy12345]

Douglas
but you and i know both know that any reduction in bad foods and the amount of them for the overweight like you and i were will improve our general health, weight and therefore bg, so although yes your diet has worked for you, it would have worked just as well if not better if you had chosen LCHF, but unless im imagining it every single time ive seen anyone say anything about low carbing you have bounced in with your low fat diet, which is a great way to confuse everything for the person asking advice, with your studies of what the potential dangers of low carbing are, then to say one day i will end up low carbing, *** dude. sorry im going off topic ill but out

 

[Daibell]

Douglas. I understand that you currently don't find the need to low-carb and that's fine. It implies that your Sitagliptin and Metformin are managing your level of diabetes which is good. There are one or two other regular posters who are in a similar position and it will be good if that control is maintained by the meds. As xyzzy says, probably the majority of posters will be helped to some extent by low-carbing either to control blood sugar or weight or both. The degree of low-carbing must be set by the person to match their needs. I have seen no posters over several years now on this forum that say high-carbing has helped and those who just adopt typical carbing levels I would suggest are in the early days of their condition. Low'ish carbing will do no harm (say 100-200gm/day?) and may help which is why I often recommend it on the forum as it's at least worth a try. Anyone who says low-carb diets can't be maintained is talking rubbish; my wife, who isn't diabetic, does and I did for 8 years before insulin. Anyone who can't maintain a diet is either on one of these popular 'branded' diets or hasn't the discipline. Some can and some can't but it's a discipline problem and not the low-carb diet that makes them stop. I had no choice with sugar levels going thru the roof and my wife is a very determined woman!

 

[douglas99]

Not for all, SOME as I said. Do not mean to cause offence but the reality is for some that would apply, as I went on to say which you didn't quote me on.

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...............Think that was party of the op, that duk are not conducting long term trials on this. Is it because that for some following the recommended diet would drastically reduce their original carb consumption and be alot healthier than their current one. But, are there slim,fit, healthy type 2s who dont overeat yes, of course. what percentage though, is it a case of help the many sod the few. ...................
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I'd love to say I was the slim fit healthy type 2, but I'll be honest, even with your full quote there, I was the fat lazy overeater.
Cutting back on anything was an improvement.

 

[douglas99]

Douglas
but you and i know both know that any reduction in bad foods and the amount of them for the overweight like you and i were will improve our general health, weight and therefore bg, so although yes your diet has worked for you, it would have worked just as well if not better if you had chosen LCHF, but unless im imagining it every single time ive seen anyone say anything about low carbing you have bounced in with your low fat diet, which is a great way to confuse everything for the person asking advice, with your studies of what the potential dangers of low carbing are, then to say one day i will end up low carbing, *** dude. sorry im going off topic ill but out

It's a last resort, when the balance of injecting insulin/taking other meds, against not eating carbs outweights the risks.
Hopefully I'll never get there, but diabetes seems to progress.
And if providing both sides of studies is a bad thing on here, that seems to be a bit of a shame really.
But at least I can make an informed choice, like anyone asking advice should be allowed to.

 

[mo1905]

Poor discipline is the biggest problem not only amongst diabetics but multitude of other health issues too. Drink too much, can't stop smoking, take drugs, over eating, all can be blamed on lack of discipline. It's easy to know what one should do but another to actually do it !


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[xyzzy]

Not for all, SOME as I said. Do not mean to cause offence but the reality is for some that would apply, as I went on to say which you didn't quote me on.

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So what percentage do you personally think is SOME Brett?

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[mrman]

So what percentage do you personally think is SOME Brett?

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I dont know a % but thats why I said some

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[douglas99]

Douglas. I understand that you currently don't find the need to low-carb and that's fine. It implies that your Sitagliptin and Metformin are managing your level of diabetes which is good. There are one or two other regular posters who are in a similar position and it will be good if that control is maintained by the meds. As xyzzy says, probably the majority of posters will be helped to some extent by low-carbing either to control blood sugar or weight or both. The degree of low-carbing must be set by the person to match their needs. I have seen no posters over several years now on this forum that say high-carbing has helped and those who just adopt typical carbing levels I would suggest are in the early days of their condition. Low'ish carbing will do no harm (say 100-200gm/day?) and may help which is why I often recommend it on the forum as it's at least worth a try. Anyone who says low-carb diets can't be maintained is talking rubbish; my wife, who isn't diabetic, does and I did for 8 years before insulin. Anyone who can't maintain a diet is either on one of these popular 'branded' diets or hasn't the discipline. Some can and some can't but it's a discipline problem and not the low-carb diet that makes them stop. I had no choice with sugar levels going thru the roof and my wife is a very determined woman!

I tended to not take the Sitagliptin and metformin over summer, and still had good figures. I take them on and off now, but do intend to re look at it at my next three month review.
I don't count carbs, but do restrict them to smaller portions of low GI. I'll eat them when I have to though, if there's nothing else, and don't tend to react badly even then.

 

[xyzzy]

I would expect, in ten years or so, we'll be providing results of different varieties of LCHF, LCHP, LCLF, balanced, portion controlled.....

That's precisely the DUK argument and has been for the LAST decade. It is pure propoganda put out to keep the status quo despite the scientific evidence. The fact is UK dietary advice hasn't changed since 1991 for whatever reason despite a great deal of good evidence based science and long term research being carried out.

Stop being a DUK apologist. This is an organisation that has until quite recently happily taken donations from Kellogs fine pushers of high fructose corn syrup that they stuffed in loads of their cereals until the eu told them to stop.


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[mo1905]

DUK is so under funded I'm pretty sure they'd accept sponsorship from Tate & Lyle !


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[douglas99]

That's precisely the DUK argument and has been for the LAST decade. It is pure propoganda put out to keep the status quo despite the scientific evidence. The fact is UK dietary advice hasn't changed since 1991 for whatever reason despite a great deal of good evidence based science and long term research being carried out.

Stop being a DUK apologist. This is an organisation that has until quite recently happily taken donations from Kellogs fine pushers of high fructose corn syrup that they stuffed in loads of their cereals until the eu told them to stop.


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"Stop being a DUK apologist"

Again, your view, or no-ones?
Maybe you should start a thread in the soapbox rather than the discussion forum?

 

[paul-1976]

DUK is so under funded I'm pretty sure they'd accept sponsorship from Tate & Lyle !


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Dude-you forgot Ben and Jerry's! LOL

 

[xyzzy]

What works for you should be enough. Why do you care if it's scientifically accepted ? We're all different and hopefully have the intelligence to have tested different foods and exercise and
lifestyle which works for us. Just because my particular diet is not advocated by DUK ...

You should care because the various regimes not curently recommended by DUK could well save people's sight limbs and lives. Even if you don't care about that consider the savings to the NHS etc. DUKs intransigence is totally immoral.


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[paul-1976]

"Stop being a DUK apologist"

Again, your view, or no-ones?

Sorry to burst your bubble Doug but I'll be the first to agree with Xyzzy on this so "no-one" has gone for a burton already!

 

[douglas99]

Sorry to burst your bubble Doug but I'll be the first to agree with Xyzzy on this so "no-one" has gone for a burton already!

That doesn't actually work, if your view, is as you say, Xyzzy's view.
I'll still to my view, but if you want only the low carb view, maybe the low carb forum would have been a better place?