Low carb diets and Diabetes UK

[douglas99]

..
and your original statement claiming DUk advocates a 130g regime was true was it! Just an innocent mistake on your part with no motive attached to it what so ever...

I gave links to my facts showing your assertion was wrong and you got p****d off is probably nearer the truth.

You cannot deny that the information that the ADA think GI is secondary to carb counting is a fact the link I posted clearly comes from their site.

It is perfectly true that the Swedes advocate a range of restricted carb regimes in their national health care document "Kost Vid Diabetes" They even accept ketogenic regimes under hcp supervision so I have nothing to retract there.

I also know many T2 diabetics who sit happily in that 120 to 180g range as well as many who have to do less. The point is even 180 is far less than the 300g a day that DUK states is the requirement in the position statements I gave links to.

Bored of your games now...



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The actual wording on the website is in my post for all to see.
The ADA advice on carb counting, with their numbers, are directly quoted in my post for all to see.

 

[douglas99]

douglas said.

"I always said, I have no problems with anyone deciding to LC, I probably will one day."

Sooner is always better than later. Reduce medication and preserve the pancreas.

FB

Oddly enough, it's been a low(ish) carb sort of day, in a calorie counting way.

Breakfast, 1 cal spray, tomato and spring onion, small amount bacon grill chopped in, 2 egg omelette
Dinner, roast chicken, breast meat, no skin, carrots, peas, cauli, broccoli, kale, gravy, (not made with fat) spoonful of stuffing, small roast potato stolen from the kids plate.
Apple strudel, Alpro custard, Small portion.
4 stolen home made fried thick crisps, again from the kids
Tea, prawn salad, thimbleful of sweet chili sauce.
So, a bit high on the fat, but it's Sunday.

6.8 half an hour after eating.

Maybe a glass of wine now.

 

[fatbird]

douglas admit you are close to joining the dark side. A bit of fine tuning and you will be a low carb man. btw fat is good we can't live without it.

FB

 

[mrman]

The fact is most type 2s arnt given supplies to measure their individual tolerance of carbs, or the education or to use/interperate results. Many come here after having bought their own supplies and then learn that there is a diet where none of that matters. But, for some following that diet long term may/may not have an adverse effect on other things but keep blood levels under control. Think that was party of the op, that duk are not conducting long term trials on this. Is it because that for some following the recommended diet would drastically reduce their original carb consumption and be alot healthier than their current one. But, are there slim,fit, healthy type 2s who dont overeat yes, of course. what percentage though, is it a case of help the many sod the few.
Obviously in the scheme of things the few are many but, still then some of those are the slim,fit healthy type 2s simply mis diagnosed ladas,type 1s, who are able to cope on diet/meds alone?.
have the slim,fit, type2s got a vast amount of insulin resistance or a vast amount of lost insulin production who would be better of on insulin anyway?
How many slim,fit, healthy type 2s are then left?
What could they do other than inject a vast amount of insulin,loads of meds that could cause a great deal more harm or low carb?

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[paul-1976]

Why mess with frankenfats such as 1 cal spray oil when there's lovely butter-much tastier

 

[SamJB]

The diet they advocate one very high in glucose. I've yet to hear an explanation of how it could possible "work" in the first place.

I agree. I find it surprising that DUK fail to understand that eating fewer foods that raise your BGs, gives you better BGs.

If you have an aversion to gluten, you eat less wheat. If you have an aversion to nuts, you eat fewer nuts. If you have an aversion to glucose, eat fewer carbs. Surprising that DUK doesn't get this.

 

[fatbird]

brett said.

"What could they do other than inject a vast amount of insulin,loads of meds that could cause a great deal more harm or low carb?"

Agree vast amounts of insulin and meds does no one any good. The best route has to be whole fresh foods and exercise..

FB

 

[mrman]

The fact is most type 2s arnt given supplies to measure their individual tolerance of carbs, or the education or to use/interperate results. Many come here after having bought their own supplies and then learn that there is a diet where none of that matters. But, for some following that diet long term may/may not have an adverse effect on other things but keep blood levels under control. Think that was party of the op, that duk are not conducting long term trials on this. Is it because that for some following the recommended diet would drastically reduce their original carb consumption and be alot healthier than their current one. But, are there slim,fit, healthy type 2s who dont overeat yes, of course. what percentage though, is it a case of help the many sod the few.
Obviously in the scheme of things the few are many but, still then some of those are the slim,fit healthy type 2s simply mis diagnosed ladas,type 1s, who are able to cope on diet/meds alone?.
have the slim,fit, type2s got a vast amount of insulin resistance or a vast amount of lost insulin production who would be better of on insulin anyway?
How many slim,fit, healthy type 2s are then left?
What could they do other than inject a vast amount of insulin,loads of meds that could cause a great deal more harm or low carb?

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Brett said above lol

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[dawnmc]

Isn't there some sayings that go 'keep on doing the same thing and expecting something different'. and 'if you don't try you cant fail'.
I watched the big body squad the other day and there was a diabetic in Wakefield having his leg amputated, he was a big guy but not old, what a shame that he will spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair. No mention of diet, criminal really.

 

[Mud Island Dweller]

Think it was Daibell who said about having degrees / qualifications if they had them then DUK would understand. I am wondering if that isn't a bit the opposite?

The majority of us here don't have the qualifications etc but we understand, it makes sense because we have field tested things, not relied on paperwork from way back when we have our own minds.

l think that DUk and NHS apart from their backing and in general are to scared to admit they are wrong and face the wrath of everyone who has deteriorated or the families of those who died from poor advice.

Many thanks to Sam, MPE, Phoenix, Smidge and many others here who are able to put scientific info in a way either wording or links for us "numpty non academics" to understand and learn from and to try to deal with the like of duk and nhs pitching their knowledge against the other lot.

MID

 

[douglas99]

The fact is most type 2s arnt given supplies to measure their individual tolerance of carbs, or the education or to use/interperate results. Many come here after having bought their own supplies and then learn that there is a diet where none of that matters. But, for some following that diet long term may/may not have an adverse effect on other things but keep blood levels under control. Think that was party of the op, that duk are not conducting long term trials on this. Is it because that for some following the recommended diet would drastically reduce their original carb consumption and be alot healthier than their current one. But, are there slim,fit, healthy type 2s who dont overeat yes, of course. what percentage though, is it a case of help the many sod the few.
Obviously in the scheme of things the few are many but, still then some of those are the slim,fit healthy type 2s simply mis diagnosed ladas,type 1s, who are able to cope on diet/meds alone?.
have the slim,fit, type2s got a vast amount of insulin resistance or a vast amount of lost insulin production who would be better of on insulin anyway?
How many slim,fit, healthy type 2s are then left?
What could they do other than inject a vast amount of insulin,loads of meds that could cause a great deal more harm or low carb?

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There is a long term study.

It's us.
Everything else so far has been a short term diet for weight loss, so can't be read across.
I would expect, in ten years or so, we'll be providing results of different varieties of LCHF, LCHP, LCLF, balanced, portion controlled.....
What we should be pushing for is for us to be monitored, and results for us as diabetics on different diets to provide meaningful data for future diabetics undertaking long term diets for blood glucose control, kidney function, CVD, mortality, and all the rest, and not using results based on short term weight loss that don't read across.

 

[Andy12345]

lol, we are proof of what? that "it depends" and "everyone is different"? thats the only collective conclusion of this forum

 

[Andy12345]

what would be needed is a low carb movement where we all agree to lobby them, looking at this forum, each time someone says something good about low carb you have someone else rubbishing it, what could be gained from listening to us?

 

[mo1905]

What works for you should be enough. Why do you care if it's scientifically accepted ? We're all different and hopefully have the intelligence to have tested different foods and exercise and
lifestyle which works for us. Just because my particular diet is not advocated by DUK does not bother me
In the slightest !


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[douglas99]

what would be needed is a low carb movement where we all agree to lobby them, looking at this forum, each time someone says something good about low carb you have someone else rubbishing it, what could be gained from listening to us?

That's an issue with simply trying to replace the good old "balanced diet for all", with "low carbs for all"
Exactly the same problem, one size fits all isn't true, so once again it's exactly the same arguments, that come out, just a different universal solution trying to be imposed on all by a different group.
Obviously one size doesn't fit all, it does depend on the individual, so there will never be a universal answer.
All you can see is what complications arise, or don't arise, from what diet, and to do that you need information from that diet, not from different ones.
Then publish it, and let the punter decide.

 

[douglas99]

What works for you should be enough. Why do you care if it's scientifically accepted ? We're all different and hopefully have the intelligence to have tested different foods and exercise and
lifestyle which works for us. Just because my particular diet is not advocated by DUK does not bother me
In the slightest !


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My point exactly.
Just because my diet isn't advocated by low carbers does not bother me.
It works for me, and produces the results I want for me.

 

[Andy12345]

i thought your point was duk should be using us as case studies, thats what i was responding to but you seem to have made it a "i dont care what low carbers advocate" point, why would we expect anyone else to listen to our "good advice" when we dont agree

 

[noblehead]

what would be needed is a low carb movement where we all agree to lobby them

I quite agree Andy and said as such a few times on the forum before. I think if all the low-carbers collectively got together and provided evidence that their diabetes and general health has improved since going low-carb then the likes of DUK couldn't possibly deny that LC works, provided everyone in the group allowed researchers to access medical reports from gp's/consultants then the evidence should surely stack-up, perhaps Sam (the OP) might want to get the ball rolling.

 

[Andy12345]

i wouldnt mind them having my records, ive probly published them all here by now anyway lol

 

[noblehead]

i wouldnt mind them having my records, ive probly published them all here by now anyway lol

Seriously though you'd make a good spokesperson Andy, why not put yourself forward?